154 replies to this topic

[Sable Dove]

Mediums suck in general. Without R&R, the selling point of the mediums is gone, but they didn't improve the mediums to make them worthwhile. The easiest fix would be to cut down the size of them a fair bit. The mediums are only slightly smaller targets than heavies, with far less armour, less firepower, and just barely faster.

Mediums in general are underpowered currently; no reason to ever take a medium over a light, heavy, or assault. Especially since Lights are both better, and cheaper.

[Koniving]

Mediums need to be smaller you say?



Why when Raven is so tall?

[Fenris Krinkovich]

Lokust Davion, on 06 April 2013 - 06:05 PM, said:

since the hunchies dont have the speed nor jumpjet capability and has very vulnerable side torso, it should have an owl neck similar to catapult to level the playing field.

this buff is especially needed for the 4G.

According to the wiki, even the 4G has 144 degrees of twist after efficiencies are maxed; this is equal to the info on the Catapults (but I'm not sure if that's pre- or post-nerf info on the Cat.) I've managed to shoot and kill several enemies that were directly behind me, or close enough to it.

The torso twist and arm flex that the Hunchbacks already have is a great asset that gets overlooked on paper, and is one of the reasons that I pilot HBK's almost exclusively. Personally, and I admit this is beyond the scope of "quirks", I'd like to see some of the hardpoints moved from RT to CT or LT, such as one of the ballistics in the G, and one or two of the lasers in the J and H. Not sure what to do with the P, and the SP is about as perfect as they come. Or maybe a built-in CASE-like something that keeps the RT from taking the RA with it. That'd give me just a little more zombie power when the hunch goes out.

In terms of a quirk that could go across the entire chassis...I don't know. Better stopping and starting would be appropriate because of the chassis' origins as an urban fighter, but the Cent already took that.

[Koniving]

Seriously though I think it's an okay size.

Atlas to Hunchback ratio.


Atlas to Raven ratio, and we all know how hard those are to hit.


Also as promised. Split-screen Hunchbacks.

[John MatriX82]

Hunchbacks have the hunch and a quite big CT, but they pack a lot of firepower, 4P has huge amounts of lasers, 4G and 4H can go AC 20, something you can only do in the YLW for the cents and the 7K for the Trebs, but with rather few backup weapons.

What bothers me much, is that they are the slowest mediums of the bunch. I think they should need some love, at least an increase in engine cap to 270 or 275 like the cents can do now.

So yes, please, raise the engine cap of the hunchies, that's it.

[ZeProme]

I think the Hunchbacks are fine. Though not close to great, I think it's just a matter of how you play it. I could be wrong since I don't have as much experience compared to you "old-dawgs"

Since Hunchbacks have rather vulnerable hunches, they are more fit for peek a booing behind large mechs or cover.

However, since I never tried other Hunchback variants, I have the HBK-4SP which I do rather well in.

Edited by ZeProme, 07 April 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Fenris Krinkovich]

A bigger engine would almost be a stealth nerf, wouldn't it? That'd be less tonnage for the firepower that HBK's are supposed to bring to the table, so a larger engine would just bring them to the same level as a Cent or Treb (citation needed.) Besides that, Hunchbacks aren't really supposed to be fast. They ARE supposed to be the close-quarters specialist of the medium class, and I think that turning speed and/or twist rate would be a great quirk; an elited hunch with the usual excellent twist range and arm flex with fast twist and a tight radius would be MURDEROUS in a dogfight.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

I find my 4G(F) to be a good mech capable of taking down anything on the field as long as it's played smart.

[mekabuser]

hunch problems are pilot error..
I think ill have a stroke if one more person sez mediums suck..

"lets say it all together."

Its you that sucks, not the mech.

[the huanglong]

I'd suggest tweaking the hitbox so that the right and left torsos had similar surface area, which might mean expanding the CT hitbox a bit into the right, with some the vacuum becoming left torso. it would be twisted as ****, but it is a Hunchback after all, not a posturemech.

Look at the spine on the phranken paint job to sort of see what I am getting at.

[aniviron]

Koniving, on 07 April 2013 - 09:09 AM, said:

4 kills in the first run.
In its element of urban environments, it performs superbly. Take it out of its designed location and you are going to have issues.

"The Hunchback is a respected and feared Reunification War-era street fighter that has been in production since its introduction in 2572. Built for urban combat and close range brawling, this BattleMech has the heavy armor and weaponry to stand up against any foe in the dense cover of a city environment."

It is a city defense unit. It is also useful as a command lance escort. It is not intended to be an open field brawler. Every mech has its designed roles.

In comparison, Centurions are designed specifically to escort Trebuchets.

It's great to quote the battletech lore, but anyone who plays a cent to escort a treb has something weird going on; especially because the cent came out months before the treb.

The 4G/H are best in a close, urban environment, but that doesn't make them good there. What made the 4G good in TT was the fact that the AC20 would punch through armor much more easily with the halved armor values compared to MWO, and the relatively low cost, which is not really a factor in MWO. The slow cooldown on the AC20 means that any time you run into a smart opponent, even with the surprise of urban cover, you get one shot off that hurts the armor, they return fire to your hunch, and you get a second shot off that maybe opens them up if you hit the same place again. But by the time your second shot is launched, you'll be down a RT, and now have relatively few options left to you; at maximum, two medium lasers.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

The key with AC20 variants is to play like a tank destroyer would. You're faster than the big boys, but a lot more fragile. You follow around your Heavies and Assaults and let them engage and go for the flank, or work on stripping the CT/Taking out exposed sections.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 08 April 2013 - 08:01 AM.

[Matroid]

I didn't read all of the replies in the middle, but i agree with original poster than Hunchbacks are currently weak. here's why:

(1) Cicada's and Trebuchets can fill in the speed gap between Lights and Heavies, but Centurions and Hunchbacks can't (excluding Cent-D). so cents and hunchies are weaker, they just don't have the option of choosing large engines. even the recent boost for centurions, going from 260 engine limit to 275, isn't enough.

why did they restrict engines? because the hunchback has a lot of hard points for his size, and carrying 9 small lasers on the small maps in early beta made him deadly. now the maps are larger, and carrying 9 small lasers will make you useless 50% of the time, but the engine restrictions remain

why is speed important? because we all play FPS games and are good at aiming, which negates the random hit locations BT used. so we use heavy mechs and assault mechs loaded with PPCs and Gauss and core cents and hunchies in a few shots. wihout speed, the medium mechs can't get away from the direct fire weapons

solution to this problem? Allow all medium mechs to equip up to the 300 engine. this will also make all centurion variants usefull


(2) ELO is currently taking other things into account much greater than mech weight. i bring a medium, the enemy team gets an Atlas. i'm not joking, i played a match where the enemy team had 7 assault (3 atlas, 3 highlander HM, 1 stalker) and 1 other. we had 2 of each weight class and got stomped. i know some people play above their level, and ELO is supposed to account for this, but unbalanced matches this bad are ridiculous. so everyone is playing heavy to asault mechs because your team is "guarenteed" those big mechs, and the enemy team is random. the best they can do it equal you in tonnage. so more big mechs with big guns shooting slow hunchies

solution to this problem? either tonnage matchmaking system, or they go back to weight-class matchmaking... then skill level (ELO) secondary


Hunchback pilot Hadros

[Fenris Krinkovich]

Hadros, on 08 April 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

solution to this problem? Allow all medium mechs to equip up to the 300 engine. this will also make all centurion variants usefull


(2) ELO is currently taking other things into account much greater than mech weight. i bring a medium, the enemy team gets an Atlas. i'm not joking, i played a match where the enemy team had 7 assault (3 atlas, 3 highlander HM, 1 stalker) and 1 other. we had 2 of each weight class and got stomped. i know some people play above their level, and ELO is supposed to account for this, but unbalanced matches this bad are ridiculous. so everyone is playing heavy to asault mechs because your team is "guarenteed" those big mechs, and the enemy team is random. the best they can do it equal you in tonnage. so more big mechs with big guns shooting slow hunchies

solution to this problem? either tonnage matchmaking system, or they go back to weight-class matchmaking... then skill level (ELO) secondary

A bigger engine is less tonnage for weapons, ammo, and heat sinks, so you wind up nerfing yourself for the sake of a few KPH.

As for the second bit about matchmaking, the devs announced last week that they found a bug in the Elo calculation that caused some pilots to have higher Elo than they should, and also that they're going to introduce weight class matching again. Both tweaks should go in next week.

http://mwomercs.com/...46#entry2228746

[LordBraxton]

Every medium needs help

Cicadas are lights, they don't count. (even though cicadas are meh as well)

Edited by LordBraxton, 15 April 2013 - 10:52 AM.

[IG 88]

? ... please stop comparing Medium classe mech to any othere classe mech

Edited by IG 88, 15 April 2013 - 10:55 AM.

[Fut]

Fenris Krinkovich, on 15 April 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

A bigger engine is less tonnage for weapons, ammo, and heat sinks, so you wind up nerfing yourself for the sake of a few KPH.

Exactly this. "Bigger Engines" sounds good at first, but all that weight is really going to put a damper on combat effectiveness.
Besides, out of all the HBK threads I've seen, there are virtually no load-outs being shared that are using the current max engine size.

[BatWing]

These threads are so boring.. I can t believe they still generate 7+ pages of replies.

Mechwarrior, Battletech.. whatever you wanna call it, has 4 Classes as we know.

main difference with this game is that in the Battletech universe and in other Competitive Modes when we were playing MW4, ECONOMY was playing an important role.

Actually Economy and Jump Ships weight restirctions together.

When you have those restriction, Medium class and any "sub-par" configuration assumes its own role. When you have no money or you have weight restriction, you gotta use what you can.

MWO players are just spoiled players with no understanding of economy. If there are no restrictions there are no reason (other than cosmetc) to not use the best and most expensive mech.

Assaults are better than Heavies, although some Heavies can still be usefull.

Heavies are better than Mediums, period. What makes the difference is in the economy. Mediums are quite good, cost less and their maintanence is cheap... but if you don t have to worry about your money, why even bother?

Lights are very useful in general, therefore will always be there on the battlefield.

Why do we have to repeat all of these for the 4th billion time?

[Fenris Krinkovich]

BatWing, on 15 April 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

These threads are so boring.. I can t believe they still generate 7+ pages of replies.

Mechwarrior, Battletech.. whatever you wanna call it, has 4 Classes as we know.

main difference with this game is that in the Battletech universe and in other Competitive Modes when we were playing MW4, ECONOMY was playing an important role.

Actually Economy and Jump Ships weight restirctions together.

When you have those restriction, Medium class and any "sub-par" configuration assumes its own role. When you have no money or you have weight restriction, you gotta use what you can.

MWO players are just spoiled players with no understanding of economy. If there are no restrictions there are no reason (other than cosmetc) to not use the best and most expensive mech.

Assaults are better than Heavies, although some Heavies can still be usefull.

Heavies are better than Mediums, period. What makes the difference is in the economy. Mediums are quite good, cost less and their maintanence is cheap... but if you don t have to worry about your money, why even bother?

Lights are very useful in general, therefore will always be there on the battlefield.

Why do we have to repeat all of these for the 4th billion time?

As you said elsewhere:

Quote

Don t like it, pass by, I am not gonna miss you, I promise..

[INSEkT L0GIC]

I thought this thread would be about chiropractor referrals.