154 replies to this topic

[StonedVet]

Are you smoking something cheap? I top out on my team on a regular basis in my 4SP. The hunchback is fine, just people need to learn how to pilot them. 500 Dmg with 5 ML and 2 SRM 6's is easy-sauce once you know what its capable of.

[Inyc]

Lowridah, on 06 April 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

in my 4SP.

Note how it's always the 4SP pilots that say the hunch is fine.

jay35, on 06 April 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Hunchies are stout little mechs. They are one of the hardest medium mechs to take down, short of a particularly well-piloted zombie-able centurion.

That's mostly because the stock armor layout places a ton of armor up front and dangerously low armor at the back. It works OK on the Hunch compared to the Cent or Treb because of the 20 extra degrees of torso twist. But if you ever get a back shot on a hunch, you're pretty much guaranteed to blow up that part. Otherwise they have the exact same amount of armor as a Treb or Cent.

[80Bit]

Let me tell you a secret about the Hunchback.

It's not a brawler.

Sure, everyone tells you it is a brawler.
Sure, everyone brawls in it.
Sure, in table top it was a brawler.
Sure, the 4SP is a brawler, but it's not really a Hunchback now is it?

But in MechWarrior Online, where you can actually aim at the area of the mech you want to hit, the Hunchback is not a good brawler.

The Hunchback is a medium range direct fire support platform. It does a pretty good job as such.

[Xenois Shalashaska]

80Bit, on 06 April 2013 - 08:12 PM, said:

Let me tell you a secret about the Hunchback.

It's not a brawler.

Sure, everyone tells you it is a brawler.
Sure, everyone brawls in it.
Sure, in table top it was a brawler.
Sure, the 4SP is a brawler, but it's not really a Hunchback now is it?

But in MechWarrior Online, where you can actually aim at the area of the mech you want to hit, the Hunchback is not a good brawler.

The Hunchback is a medium range direct fire support platform. It does a pretty good job as such.

I agree with this guy. Hunchbacks are fine mechs. Everything is where it should be

[Royalewithcheese]

Incidentally, why do hunchies have enormous AC40 magnet heads?

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 06 April 2013 - 08:22 PM.

[Koniving]

Default Hunchback 4H pugging deals 691 damage. Purely stock build except paint. Literally just bought.



It doesn't need a whole lot of help. It just needs a pilot that knows the Hunchback is not meant for combat on open fields or for high speed chases. It is an urban fighter and combat escort. Not an olympic runner.

[LordDeathStrike]

the hunch isnt made to take hits, its made to give them. so ya you arent out looking for duels in a hunch, you arent running around alone in a hunch. you are literally hanging out with your bigger slower boys that need a hunch covering them in case someone tries to cause them problems.

also why would you put 9 small lasers on a swayback, my swayback build has 9 meds and can get off 3 bursts before heat is critical on any map, and can nearly sustain full alpha spam on the icey maps. 3x9x5 = 135 dmg before im in heat trouble, 135 dmg = lethal, even to an atlas as long as you burnt his back or a side torso with an xl engine in it.

just wait till the hunch 2 clan version shows up, with its dual clan uac 20s.

[Inyc]

Koniving, on 06 April 2013 - 08:34 PM, said:

Default Hunchback 4H pugging deals 691 damage. Purely stock build except paint. Literally just bought.

I've gotten 1K damage, 4K 3A with a stock AWS 8Q. That doesn't change that the AWS has glaring weaknesses and that stock builds are bad... It just means I got a good game.

[Davers]

Medium mechs do need a little love, Hunchbacks in particular.

But they haven't gotten their 'quirks' yet like the Cent did. I would lie to see it get a tighter turning radius, and increased up/down torso movement. It already has the best arm movement in the game.

The 4SP can be a brawler, but it is a light brawler compared to what's out there true. But it's 4 arm mounted energy slots allow pin point accuracy, plus it can fire a lot before worrying about heat.

The 4P is a great flanker/striker. You can get about 3 alpha strikes off before worrying about overheating. It moves fast and is very good at hitting the rear of large mechs. It has enough energy weapons that light mechs are in serious trouble of getting legged in one pass.

The 4G was always a dependable mech, and a good escort for heavier mechs. However, with the increased number of dual AC/20 builds out there it has taken a big hit to it's role. It's a shame the extra ballistic points are just a waste. Probably the weakest of the Hunchbacks.

The 4H is still pretty solid. It can do more than the 4G- it's practically an upgraded version.

The 4J is in a bit f a bad spot with the current state of LRMs. Some people try to turn it into another 4SP, but without the balanced weapon locations it really isn't worth it. It's better off in it's 'classic' role of fire support with extra lasers to discourage light mechs from bothering it or it's LRM boat buddies.

That said...

As we see more mechs capable of carrying large alpha strikes, the medium mechs have fallen to the side a bit. Of all the classes mediums are the hardest to make viable. They lack the speed of the lights, and the greater tonnage and generally better hard points of the heavier mechs (For everyone talking about the symmetrical nature of the SP, please remember that every Catapult is symmetrical as well). The reason medium mechs were 'the working horse' mechs was because of cost. A 'work horse' mech is not as desirable as a racing stallion or a war horse, but it is much cheaper than either. They are a compromise between cost and effectiveness. And honestly, if you don't have to compromise, why would you?

[TOGSolid]

Quote

I don't play a Hunchback. I know you can do well with a Hunchback. I know you can get top score with one. You can do so with any mech in the game, even the stock mechs. You can stop coming in here and saying you do well with the 4SP.

Your entire argument is god awful bad because you're telling us to not use anecdotal evidence contrary to your point and then base your entire post on anecdotal evidence.

What a stupid thread.

Quote

The most unique variant, the Swayback 4P is really hurt by small lasers being poop.

Hahahahahahahaa.  Oh man.  If you're still trying to do a small laser fastback then you really don't know what the **** you're doing.  You are, quite objectively, doing it wrong.

Edited by TOGSolid, 06 April 2013 - 09:59 PM.

[Inyc]

TOGSolid, on 06 April 2013 - 09:56 PM, said:

Your entire argument is god awful bad because you're telling us to not use anecdotal evidence contrary to your point and then base your entire post on anecdotal evidence.

The hunch being the target you go for when facing a hunchback isn't anecdotal.

[TOGSolid]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

The hunch being the target you go for when facing a hunchback isn't anecdotal.

And the comically huge head of the Awesome is what you aim for.

The right torso of the Atlas is a great first target, doubly so if they stuff a Gauss in there.

The ears of a Splatcat are the obvious weakpoint.

Half of the Treb's missile firepower is in an easily destroyed arm.

The Yen Lo Wang loses almost all of its punch when you shoot its arm off.

A non-SRM boat Centurion, and the Dragon both have similar arm vulnerabilities.

What's your point?

Edited by TOGSolid, 06 April 2013 - 10:05 PM.

[Hayashi]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 08:55 AM, said:

The Hunch 4SP has two hunches. Which one do you shoot? Name the mech that can replicate both the weapon load AND symmetry of the 4SP. It's not about raw hard points, its about the ability to lose half your mech and still have half your weapons.

Not all Hunches are a stock 4G. The 4G is an admittedly terrible mech.

There's one advantage to running a 4G. Since there are 3 ballistics points in the RT almost everyone puts a heavy weapon in there and light weapons elsewhere so that blowing it up makes it useless. Some of the weirder players even put an XL to up their firepower even though nearly all pilots aim at the hunch.

So, I purposely run a 2 Large Laser 1 Medium Pulse build. Blowing up my hunch removes less than half of my firepower, and effectively doubles my health since I'm on a STD 260.

This isn't to say that the 4G doesn't suck, it really does. But there is a way to misdirect players so that it isn't as terrible as it otherwise would be.

[Inyc]

TOGSolid, on 06 April 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

And the head of the Awesome is what you aim for.

The right torso of the Atlas is a great first target.

The ears of a Splatcat are the obvious weakpoint.

Half of the Treb's missile firepower is in an easily destroyed arm.

The Yen Lo Wang loses almost all of its punch when you shoot its arm off.

A non-SRM boat Centurion, and the Dragon both have similar arm Vulnerabilities.

What's your point?

While other mechs also have obvious "weak spots" none are hurt as much by theirs.

Arm targets don't blow off your side torso when destroyed. Arm targets don't prevent you using XL engines. Each ear on a Cat has the same armor as the hunch on a Hunch. The Atlas side cannon is somewhat comparable but the Atlas gets a bevy of weapons in other spots as well so it doesn't get neutered as hard by losing its AC.

The Aws is certainly a relatively weak mech because of the impossible to miss CT and it suffers horribly from matchmaking not accounting for tonnage.

Why do you think everyone likes the 4SP so much? Its the one variant that doesn't have the glaring weak point that you can't miss.

[TOGSolid]

Quote

Why do you think everyone likes the 4SP so much? Its the one variant that doesn't have the glaring weak point that you can't miss.

Because SRMs have been overpowered easy mode weapons for a long time?

I drive all of the Hunchbacks and enjoy them all for different reasons. The 4SP is easier to drive, but I absolutely prefer my 4P because of how incredibly powerful it is in comparison. A 93KPH mech with a 45 point pinpoint alpha strike is a scary thing and should absolutely be respected. However, the fragility of the torso is the price you pay for having a gigantic ******** cannon on your shoulder. The 4G does have issues since the 4H is just objectively better right now, but that's entirely due to machine guns being complete ****** still.

The problem, once again, is that the complete lack of tonnage restrictions means carting out a mech like that doesn't make as big of an impact as it really should. Once matches aren't just tonnage arms races you'll see the real value of the Hunchback on the battlefield because suddenly you'll see these glass cannon mediums punching far above their weight. Thus making a much bigger impact and becoming a mech to respect.

Edited by TOGSolid, 06 April 2013 - 10:29 PM.

[WANTED]

Hayashi, on 06 April 2013 - 10:02 PM, said:

There's one advantage to running a 4G. Since there are 3 ballistics points in the RT almost everyone puts a heavy weapon in there and light weapons elsewhere so that blowing it up makes it useless. Some of the weirder players even put an XL to up their firepower even though nearly all pilots aim at the hunch.

So, I purposely run a 2 Large Laser 1 Medium Pulse build. Blowing up my hunch removes less than half of my firepower, and effectively doubles my health since I'm on a STD 260.

This isn't to say that the 4G doesn't suck, it really does. But there is a way to misdirect players so that it isn't as terrible as it otherwise would be.

Thanks for the tip. I ran this just tonight as it's nice having some hitting power when they inevitably blow off your right torso. I added a AC5 for some little pop and dropped the med pulse laser. Mainly just a group fire preference. I like to have 1 group fire mouse button 1 and group 2 fire mouse button 2. Then alpha 3rd button/scroll wheel. Need more buttons on my mouse heh.

[Jonathan Paine]

Decided to pull my hunch H out of storage. Played more than fifteen matches and the mech currently has a better win/loss and k/d ratio than my Atlas DDC. And I do have hundreds of matches. In all categories. The hunch is fine. The match maker is trash.

[Hayashi]

Jonathan Paine, on 06 April 2013 - 11:39 PM, said:

The match maker is trash.

This. Half the imbalance problems we have would be solved by weight matching. And probably another 25% by BV matching.

[Sephlock]

There seems to be a communication issue in this thread. On the one hand some of us are thinking of the Hunchback 4G and the Founder's Hunchie*, and on the other we have people thinking of variants like the 4sp.

Speaking as someone who started with the former and ended up with the latter, if given a choice between them...



*both of which could use an extra energy slot in each arm, or at least one extra energy slot on the hunchless side.

Edited by Sephlock, 07 April 2013 - 12:04 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 08:51 AM, said:

I don't play a Hunchback. I know you can do well with a Hunchback. I know you can get top score with one. You can do so with any mech in the game, even the stock mechs. You can stop coming in here and saying you do well with the 4SP.

But that doesn't change that Hunchbacks need help. Every time I see one on the enemy team, I go for them because I know I can get an easy kill with very little risk to myself. In my Jager, I just shoot his hunch twice. In my Cent, thrice. Once that's done, I've pretty much won. If I can get a back shot, its even faster. One shot from my Jager will destroy his back side, two in my Cent.

The hunch is just too big a vulnerability on that mech. Having all your weapons in one spot is already a glaring weakness, having that be a side torso, which will take one of your arms with it AND damage your CT once it blows is an absurd weakness. Hunchbacks require some "quirks" to help them out. Maybe giving their hunch side torso as much armor as their center. Maybe have XL engines only go into the center + left side torso so they can actually mount some - and up their engine size a bit, like with the Cent.

If you don't believe the Hunch needs help, compare it to the Treb. Realistically, the Treb can make any build the Hunch can, has the same available armor, can sport a MUCH bigger engine AND JumpJets. And it doesn't have that big "SHOOT HERE" hunch.

Even the "best" hunch, the 4SP can be replicated better with a Cent or a Treb.

The most unique variant, the Swayback 4P is really hurt by small lasers being poop. How does it make sense for them to be 90m? If you follow the stat balance from LL to ML, then SL should have a 160m (320m max) range. Not 90. Even the SPL should be at 105m. I get that they're supposed to be close range weapons but 90 meter isn't close range. 90 meter is "I die or you die, no one is getting out" range. Which is something a medium mech should not have to commit to. Especially one with such a low engine rating.

Trebs are nowhere near as good as a Hunchback lmao. They lack turning ability, arm movement and torso twist. The only thing going good for them is the get me the hell out of here engine. There torsos are huge. You don't know what your talking about sorry.