154 replies to this topic

[Vermaxx]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

You know this game has a throttle, you have more options than "stand still" and "MAX SPEED". You can amble along at 55kph to stick with the atlas AND you can go to 100 when it's on and you need to circle behind your target or get out of the line of fire. More speed is NEVER a weakness.

I didn't say it was a weakness, I said it was a waste over tonnage I could have spent on weapons. Unless I can crank that Centurion up to 140 and keep up with a 3L, anything less is just sucking tonnage out of armor or weapons or heat management.

[Inyc]

IceSerpent, on 06 April 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

So, the whole point of this thread is to let us know that having extra 15 tons of weight allows one to pack extra weapons and armor? Sorry to break news to you like this, but we kind of suspected that all along...

Did you miss the part where I say that this is not a comparison you can make? And the part where I compare a Hunchback to the other two 50 ton mediums and NOT to a 65 ton heavy until others brought it up for some reason?

[Vermaxx]

Locan Ravok, on 06 April 2013 - 09:50 AM, said:

The Hunch was the first medium in the game. It is to big for todays standard and to slow.

But the problem is not just the Hunch, but all mediums. They have no real place in the game as it is. Or you are fast, or you have tons of weapons and armor. Before ELO you could bring a medium because it would force your enemy to bring also one. But right now there is no reason to pilot one over a light or a heavy.

They're going to have to come back around to including some level of weight-class matching in elo. This is not absolutely true, it is still an opinion, but the core fact is correct. You cannot rely on the fact that taking a medium forces one on the enemy as well, that is true. It still does not mean they have zero place in the game.

[Inyc]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

I didn't say it was a weakness, I said it was a waste over tonnage I could have spent on weapons. Unless I can crank that Centurion up to 140 and keep up with a 3L, anything less is just sucking tonnage out of armor or weapons or heat management.

But its not. 100 Kph means you can't be carrouselled by the raven. You can just stand still and rotate at the same speed as he circles you while constantly shooting him. If you drop your speed too much, you cannot do this. 100 Kph also allows you to dance around any heavy and assault and make much better use of cover. Again, more speed is not a weakness (up to the point where you drop down on weapon quality per hard point, but neither the Treb nor Cent need to do this).

[Inyc]

IceSerpent, on 06 April 2013 - 09:46 AM, said:

Given that you are talking about the same exact weight and same exact loadout in all cases, the only way to mount a bigger engine is to use XL...and that's not exactly conductive towards continued survival in a brawl.

That's the entire point. Cents and Trebs CAN mount XL much more safely than the Treb because their big "Shoot me" target (other than the CT, which applies to everyone) are the arms, and not the side torso.

The hunch: prevents use of XL engines, is the biggest target on the mech and so cannot be shielded, takes away the majority of your weapons when destroyed, takes away one arm when destroyed, damages your CT when destroyed, has low armor for such a large target and critical component.

And it doesn't actually give you anything over the Treb and Cent in return for all this. That's the big thing. You have this huge weakness and you get nothing for it.

[Mild Monkey]

you know in what respect the Hunchback need s help?
This here, a topic I started with a clip and even a reply from the support staff of PGI's finest:
http://mwomercs.com/...12#entry2190012

That's a very important thing in my view. The rest is opinion because yes, the lights are way faster, the heavies and assaults can deal more hurt per ton and the cent is zombie apocalypse and the treb can fly. Sometimes they kill me, sometimes I kill them and still, O love the 4Sp (you just wait untill the srm damage is back up, you just wait, buddy )

[Vermaxx]

Fine. The centi and Treb are both completely better and you win at arguing on the internet.

What was that saying about winning an argument on the internet?

Regardless, mechs need differences. The Hunch is not 'fast' or 'jumpy.' It is a workhorse. If you need a medium to circle-jerk a 3L, then take a Centi. Or...I could just use the SSRM in my 4SP with the ECM my buddy is running in his 3L.

If you were to have said that the Catapult was largely eclipsed by the Jagermech, I would have agreed with you. Every single Jager has 8 hardpoints, every single Cat has six. Even then, my friend objectively pointed out that a Cat still has torso twist benefits, and better protection for tusk-guns.

[Inyc]

I said I don't use a Hunch... I just feel so bad when I see an enemy with a pimped out Hunch and 20 seconds later he's walking away hunchless to maybe spend the rest of the game shooting 1 or 2 ML. Same with Awesomes. I keep seeing Pretty Babies or built Awesomes go down in seconds because that mech has the biggest SHOOT ME next to the Hunch, but his SHOOT ME HERE results in death. Plus a lot of people run the default armor layout with a hilarious 60 front/40 back layout.

I like this game, and I like playing it against other people, so the more people quit because they pick up a poop mech with their C-BILLs, the less fun it will be. And no matter how well you do in a sub-par mech, it doesn't make it any less sub-par.

[Inyc]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

Fine. The centi and Treb are both completely better and you win at arguing on the internet.

What was that saying about winning an argument on the internet?
Regardless, mechs need differences. The Hunch is not 'fast' or 'jumpy.' It is a workhorse.

Well hopefully they can fix the HB to actually make it into a Workhorse. You say that mechs need differences - I agree. I think its not fair that the Cent and Treb can do everything the Hunch can do AND can do other builds too.

[Vermaxx]

So you created a thread where you aggressively defend your postion, and your position is you feel sorry for those of us who play Hunches? Seriously?

People who can't cut it run a Centi or Treb. People who can don't lose their hunch in 20 seconds. Worry about your own skill and deficiencies, and let us Hunchers worry about ours.

[Inyc]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

So you created a thread where you aggressively defend your postion, and your position is you feel sorry for those of us who play Hunches? Seriously?

People who can't cut it run a Centi or Treb. People who can don't lose their hunch in 20 seconds. Worry about your own skill and deficiencies, and let us Hunchers worry about ours.

If only you'd read the very first line of my OP, all this could have been avoided.

This is not opinions. Its about risk vs reward.

Stuffing all your weapons in a single section of your mech is obviously a big risk. But whats the bigger risk? Putting all of them in an arm, or a side torso? Obviously, the side torso. So with a bigger risk should come a bigger reward - but that is not the case, which creates an imbalance which results in less variety and less fun for everyone.

Edited by Inyc, 06 April 2013 - 10:20 AM.

[Bogus]

Hunchback is fine. It's a 50 ton mech so yes, obviously it goes down fast when under heavy fire. So does every other medium mech. And yes, obviously the hunch is a weak point but nearly every mech in the game has at least one weak point. With medium mechs, that involves taking out its primary weapon system which invariably lives in one place.

[Vermaxx]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

If only you'd read the very first line of my OP, all this could have been avoided.

This is not opinions. Its about risk vs reward.

Stuffing all your weapons in a single section of your mech is obviously a big risk. But whats the bigger risk? Putting all of them in an arm, or a side torso? Obviously, the side torso. So with a bigger risk should come a bigger reward - but that is not the case, which creates an imbalance which results in less variety and less fun for everyone.

I did read it, and then I called you on it. You know how they can excel. If they can excel in that manner, why do they need a buff? You don't use them, so you have no dog in this fight. By your own statements, you already play what you consider to be the better mechs.

I'm not seeing less variety, or less fun. The reward for a cannon hunch is the cannon. A hunch has more armor than a Centi arm, which is where the cannon goes in THAT mech. A hunch is BETTER ABLE to defend its primary armament than a Centi.

I'd love to see a game with you in a Centi, and default armor values. You wouldn't feel sorry for an AC20 in that scenario.

[IceSerpent]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Did you miss the part where I say that this is not a comparison you can make? And the part where I compare a Hunchback to the other two 50 ton mediums and NOT to a 65 ton heavy until others brought it up for some reason?

No, I even commented on that "comparison", which you decided to miss for some reason.

[Inyc]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 10:23 AM, said:

I did read it, and then I called you on it. You know how they can excel. If they can excel in that manner, why do they need a buff?

They can excel because every single mech and chassis CAN excel. You can top the damage and kills as anything. Even as a slow PPC or Gauss Spider. That doesn't make them good chassis.

[Mild Monkey]

Vermaxx, on 06 April 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

So you created a thread where you aggressively defend your postion, and your position is you feel sorry for those of us who play Hunches? Seriously?

People who can't cut it run a Centi or Treb. People who can don't lose their hunch in 20 seconds. Worry about your own skill and deficiencies, and let us Hunchers worry about ours.

Actually, I would like to see the Hunchback upgraded to 50 tons of blitzkrieg destruction, running at 130 kph with 500 points of armor, 4 LL in the arms, a PPC in the head and 40 LRMs. Wait, no, i wouldn't... I like the mech because it has its drawbacks and advantages.

[Vermaxx]

Well now that you've opened Pandora's box, I want this magical Hunchback that contains the soul of a Jenner and the vitality of an Atlas, all crammed into the mortal Hunchback form.

[Inyc]

But all I want is a Hunchback that gets some reward for its added risks. Or are you guys trying to be funny?

[IceSerpent]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

But all I want is a Hunchback that gets some reward for its added risks. Or are you guys trying to be funny?

No, we simply realize that you are theory-crafting (in other words, you have no idea what relative strengths and weaknesses are between 3 50-tonners and between any of those 50-tonners and other mechs), and we are sufficiently bored due to the game being currently broken to actually post in this thread.

[Mild Monkey]

Inyc, on 06 April 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

But all I want is a Hunchback that gets some reward for its added risks. Or are you guys trying to be funny?

Honestly, to outpilot a heavier, better armored and better armed opponent is quite rewarding. Look, I know what you mean actually, I just don't agree this NEEDS to be done. The Hunchback is more fragile, yes, but play it as intended (striker/finisher) and you get plenty of rewards. Engage 2 Raven 3L alone and you die.