342 replies to this topic

[Jason1138]

Xander Pappyson, on 08 April 2013 - 05:57 PM, said:

We invested into a concept...not a fully developed game. We all had the option to invest or not, and the level at which to invest. We didn't buy part ownership so we have no real say. Think of it like a stock investment it might pay off, it might not. Either way you spent the money. Right? I think so.

yes, we all invested in a concept. and they've changed big parts of that concept since they collected the founder's money, i think. I understood the devs to say this would be a true to canon mech game, and that there would be alot of options for things like player controlled base defenses, etc

instead we're getting about 50 hero mechs and pay to win crap like coolant flush, after coolant flush was specifically denied to be under consideration by name

some people don't feel that's the "concept" they signed up for. if you think it is, then more power to you, i'm just saying "the concept" isn't just what you think it is, so if you're defining it as "some mech game" then that's your idea of it, and if someone else thought with good reason it would be a true-to-lore mech game then as far as they're concerned this is no longer the game they backed

and some people react very badly to that kind of bait and switch, or at least the perception that its been a bait and switch. that's all i was saying. when you say "you pre-ordered a life time supply of mechwarrior and we're giving you FPS robots, and no you can't get your money back lol!" it angers people and some of them react badly

not saying that reaction is right, but it was predictable.

[Kill Dozer]

Kwibl, on 08 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

I don't quite understand the justification for charging more for private matches than for the random match making. As units keep saying, we want to throw money at you, give us stuff that we will throw money at you for, don't deny us the stuff we want to pay for (unit colours, unit decals) and then start taxing us and not the rest of the player base on more basic features.

You're marketting your monetisation of CW terribly. I wouldn't mind if we had to pay for dropships, barracks/mechbays (extra member capacity), but so far the impression i've gotten is that not only are we a minority for PGI in terms of feedback/relevance, we're going to be the most artificially monetised demographic. We want excuses to give you money (cool mechs, customised paint schemes that we can design), we don't particularly enjoy the idea of paying for stuff we consider to be core mechanics, such as private lobbies, particularly when that stuff is built on a subscription system rather than a micro transaction system.

Give us more microtransactions that we actually want to buy (please, please, create a poll/feedback thread for stuff people -want- to buy, and what prices they would pay), don't try to introduce subscription systems. Hell, if you need to charge for it, make CW a paid-for expansion pack so that it's a one off buy the same as previous MW games, to get the same functionality as previous MW games.

Very well said

Edited by Kill Dozer, 09 April 2013 - 03:28 PM.

[Gremlich Johns]

I appreciate the lengthy answer and find it unfortunate, as should all, that people even needed to make threats beyond "I'm quitting if...."

One question: Will CW, when launched, be 1st person view only.

I know Mechwarrior Buddah posted a quote above for the variations of 1PV and 3PV, but is that for PUGs or the CW game? If the CW game will have the three options, there may be some slight umbrage which could segment the player base beyond that desired by even the 3PV adherents. A segmentation that could make having both TDM and Assault (in its current form) seem mild.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 09 April 2013 - 05:07 PM.

[Zolaz]

Backpedal backpedal backpedal ....

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Gremlich Johns, on 09 April 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

One question: Will CW, when launched, be 1st person view only.

I wanna know this answer too

[Maverick Howell]

WHY ARE WE YELLING!?

lol j/k

This sounds like a good plan. However if we will be buying more mc regularly i would like the price to drop a bit more please and thank you good sir!

[AxeHammer]

Funbags, on 08 April 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Will EVERYONE in the group need to have premium time to do private matches or just the leader. Clarify.

This definitely needs to be clarified.

I'm fine to pay (more) into the game to access certain special benefits (ex. dedicated server spots), but do not want to be forced to continuously pile in cash just so I can continue playing the game normally (Ex. Puggin)

Sorry to hear about the completely unjustified hate mail.
Keep up the great work

[AxeHammer]

Funbags, on 08 April 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Will EVERYONE in the group need to have premium time to do private matches or just the leader. Clarify.

This definitely needs to be clarified.

I'm fine to pay (more) into the game to access certain special benefits (ex. dedicated server spots), but do not want to be forced to continuously pile in cash just so I can continue playing the game normally (Ex. Puggin)

Sorry to hear about the completely unjustified hate mail.
Keep up the great work

[Jock Blaine]

Bryan,

Let me start with saying I am sorry that there are people who resort to threats. That is totally unacceptable. Period. You hope that the people you are meeting online and are playing a game with, are beyond that. Sadly, reality differs.

However, on a more general note, I really hope you are learning something from all the fall-out. Communication. This whole episode is caused by PGI's tendency to, well, basically say nothing. You can, indeed, not control when an interview comes out and people do have holidays. On the other hand, the items under discussion have been under discussion for ages on the forums, and the main response to many questions is: "can't tell yet" or variations thereof. Yes, it is sexier to reveal bits in an interview than write them on a forum, but it carries the risks of being misinterpreted.

You just know the same is going to happen when the Clans arrive, to name an example. You must have an idea, a vision. And of course there is still a lot of time and things will need a lot of tuning and will change. However, I do expect you have an idea on how to balance stuff. Again, this is just an example and not meant to start a discussion about that.

Another example: ECM. Lots have been said, I have said my things. Then there is a kind of official thread for feedback. To end 2 weeks later with a statement that actually you are quite happy with its current state, except for some small bits. This last posting is finally a bit of clear information. I might not be happy with it, but now I finally know what the state of affairs is. The main problem I have with that last posting is that you shouldn't have asked for feedback, getting pages and pages of opinions and suggestions, to then throw them all away. If the developers are happy with the way it is implemented, with exception of some tweaking: Say so. (as PGI finally did)

Please: increase your communication. Give us your vision. Like in your posting starting this thread: make it clear nothing is final, but at least give us an idea where you want to go. You might have to change it, for whatever reason. But lots of people have invested time and money in this game, and basically we are floundering in the dark, hoping you make the right decisions, while your communication is often less than informative. And sometimes that backfires. (not including the idiots that revert to threats here) It is a shame that needs to happen before there is finally a clear statement.

You are doing a great job (with some choices I might not agree with, but I fully realise you can't please everyone) but let us know where you intend to go. Otherwise: Keep up the good work.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Thank you.
It is unfortunate that the stars aligned and created a mess. Holidays, miscommunication, improper transcribing, etc etc. It just all happened at once. The community really ticked me off that weekend. I wished everyone would just see that things are happening that couldn't be controlled. Wished they'd just eat a sock for a few days and cool-off and wait for proper answers, but the loudest ones are always blindest and deaf, and fools are lead by them. Thanks for understanding they're a minority. There's many great people here and we love you all!

Keep up the good work. Looking forward to more CW details. I'm excited that it's on its way!! Time is going by really fast.
Kudos to Viterbi and miSs for doing their best! I imagine it is not easy.


[edit]: late-night spelling

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 09 April 2013 - 11:25 PM.

[James DeGriz]

You know, after my initial post (and a night's sleep!) I've come to realise that where MWO is heading in terms of it's payment model isn't actually that far removed from most games advertised as F2P. I think the problem comes because up until now we've been playing what will probably end up being the bit that actually IS "Free to Play".

If MWO was released as complete with no public access and the payment model had been advertised as F2P, and the details released that you could access random map drops with 23 other players for free, but you'd need a subscription to access the persistent world content, would we still be up in arms about it?

In other games, the meat of the game is usually something that people have to pay for via a subscription or a one time purchase for a content download, so actually if CW does require Premium Time, in the scheme of things is that really such a bad thing? Being totally honest, I actually prefer subscription models: I just want to pay one fee per month and have access to everything, not a pay a bit here, pay a bit there and some bits you can't get at because it's stuck behind a pay wall.

TL;DR - The F2P label in most MMO's is misleading, not just MWO. It's an unfortunate direction that the industry has taken, but the torches shouldn't just be lit for PGI.

Edited by James DeGriz, 09 April 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[Maverick Howell]

All i have to say is that if mc is able to be earned in game you will get farmers...

[Mystere]

Jock Blaine, on 09 April 2013 - 11:16 PM, said:

I really hope you are learning something from all the fall-out. Communication. This whole episode is caused by PGI's tendency to, well, basically say nothing ...

Let me just put things as bluntly as I can (and it is not directed in any way at you, Jock -- I am just using your post as a "staging area"). There is nothing that PGI has ever said/done or not said/done that justifies, in any way at all, threats of physical harm. NOTHING.

One other thing, user suggestions are just that: suggestions. They do not equate to mandatory orders that need to be done. PGI not doing your suggestions does not mean they ignored it. They may and do have reasons for going the direction they are going. Sure, they could be much more communicative and give out more details. But if you are receiving literally thousands of insults day in and day out, and now threats of physical violence, would you still be so communicative? Frankly I don't blame them if they go silent.

Now back on topic ...

I have absolutely no problem with paying for private matches, especially if it is paid for only by the person setting it up and not necessarily also by the people who will be playing in it. The only thing I would like to request is that the match be of any size as determined by the person setting it up. Such a scheme would be perfect for family-oriented weekend brawls, 1vs1 or otherwise.

Edited by Mystere, 10 April 2013 - 06:41 AM.

[MasterBLB]

Bryan Ekman, on 08 April 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

(...)

• Some aspects of CW will reward players with MC, we are considering a Premium Account requirement to participate in these rewards. This will not prevent non-paying customers to participate in all aspects of CW with their friends and teammates.
  
• If we decided to launch Private Matches, they will likely require a Premium Account to cover costs of hosting a match on our hardware.(...)

Mr Ekman,please consider such tweak - premium account user would gain full MC reward while non-premium one just say 25% of the amount.That'd still promote premium account.
And as my predecessors mentioned,private matches should be available for all.

[TexAce]

Bryan Ekman, on 08 April 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

• If we decided to launch Private Matches, they will likely require a Premium Account to cover costs of hosting a match on our hardware.

I'm ok with everything except this up there!

Seriously, this is for a lot of people the death sentence.

Imagine this (which is true), I'm working in a big office, where we often have LAN parties at night since many of us are under 30 years and old play a lot of games.

I could NEVER EVER convince my co-workers to play MWO together, since what we like most to do is to play against each other as teams (we are a huge company). We don't have any interest in CW, factions or what so ever when we play against each other. Its just a brutal which-teams-wins party.

If you really want private matches to cost something, you will never get these people to touch MWO.

This is the ONLY thing why I still don't recommend this game to ANYONE.

When we get private matches, I will recommend it to them. But surely not when they cost real money!

Crazy.

Edited by TexAss, 10 April 2013 - 09:16 AM.

[Noob Weapons]

Sounds great! About how significant would the MC rewards be if they were indeed introduced? Would one be theoretically capable of 'breaking even' with their premium time, or will it be a sort of 'small refund' method?

So far the only thing I find worth paying for in the game are paint, premium time, and mech bays, but if there were a way to actually earn back the MC I pay for premium time, it might encourage me to also spend on hero mech as well.

[Illusion Tokomi]

Thank you, Mr. Ekman.
Thank you PGI.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Quote

Gremlich Johns, on 09 April 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:
One question: Will CW, when launched, be 1st person view only.

Still wanna know this lol

[CyBerkut]

Mystere, on 10 April 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

...would be perfect for family-oriented weekend brawls,...

That sounds more like something where you'd host a picnic with plenty of alcohol available...

Seriously though, people making physical threats towards the devs is just asinine. There just is not any acceptable excuse for it.

For anyone who is truly unhappy with whatever ends up being the offering... do the mature thing and vote with your wallet/feet. Feel free to post an "I'm done with MWO, and here's why" message in whatever appears to be the most appropriate forum on your way out the door, if it will make you feel better. Just keep in mind that it will be more likely to contribute to better decisions/direction if you keep it civil. If you call the devs names, question their lineage, or attribute illicit motives to them in your post... guess how much attention/weight they'll give your opinion/thoughts at that point? I can assure you, basic human nature will lead them to not miss your money enough to want you back. Keep it classy and well reasoned, and it just may have an impact if enough other people see it your way.

As for what is coming down the pipe... I hope the devs choose wisely. The 3PV (Third Person View), Community Warfare, and Private matches access are all important, and each one could potentially cause a sizable exodus of players if not handled properly.

[GhostBear64]

Thanks Bryan , was having trouble calming my team mates. Now if we could perhaps address the SRM/LRm nerfing issue and could I have a real Highlander and Camo for my AS7D-F please. Truly thank you !!