234 replies to this topic

[Koniving]

stjobe, on 08 April 2013 - 12:35 PM, said:

This is absolutely ridiculous. In fact, it's unacceptable and flies in the face of reality.

Look at this, it's my MG stats from taking a SDR-5K from purchase to full Basic (a ridiculously painful grind compared to the 5D or 5V):



581 damage in 31 matches is 18.74 damage per match.
And that's from four MGs. Per MG that's 4.68 damage per match - slightly less than a single hit from a Medium Laser!

Going by those stats, a 6 MG spider would do 28.11 damage per match - hardly "devastating", and hardly enough to scratch the paint of the back armour of that Atlas.

Please, for the love of BattleTech, come to your senses! This ridiculous attitude towards what was always a viable, low-range, low-weight ballistic alternative must end!

Can't you see that you're invalidating every light 'mech with ballistic slots you ever made or will make?

Please, reconsider.

I'm inclined to agree with another poster, it's not the MG's fault but because the ammo crit slots we're supposed to be destroying have 10 HP. It takes 50 bullets on that spot to do 2 damage. But crit damage is only a dice roll effect, so it doesn't happen as often as we like. We're supposed to do the serious damage by blowing up the guy's ammo, which can utterly tear a mech apart. But while the engine has 3 HP (yet we can't crit it at the moment) and Gauss has 1 HP, and ECM has 3 HP... ammo has 10 HP? Seriously?

[Lonestar1771]

Whelp, this game has OFFICIALLY entered the "don't give a ****" area in my brain, especially after "collisions after launch" and "MGs are good as is because we here at PGI are fuking id!ots"

[Deathlike]

lol... troll builds. High confusion, plenty of lol.

I approve.

[Butane9000]

My question wasn't answered (and it wasn't really that bad).

There was a delay in releasing the answers after a shorter window for questions. However this has led to more appropriate answers rather then your ridiculous and insulting <REDACTED> responses.

I have to say this was

[Rashhaverak]

Bryan Ekman, on 08 April 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

Asaru: Will we be seeing the return soon of the ability to drop in premade groups of various sizes and have pugs fill out the remainder of the team like it was in closed beta? Or has there been a conscious decision to not bring this back at all?
A: This is conscious to help balance out matches. The max team size in a public match is 4 and we continue to improve the matchmaker to create a more balanced experience. When 12 v 12 rolls out, 8 player teams will be replaced by 12 player teams.

This answer makes me sad. Essentially this means that we will be able to play with four friends, or 12 friends, but nothing in between. That's terrible.

[Koniving]

Terror Teddy, on 08 April 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

Ah,yes, and you have a Jager with what? Dual AC/20 as well? Your contribution to the discussion is useless since your mech HAS the space to mount damaging weapons.

Now try to be efficient with a LIGHT mech at 30 tonnes or less with MG's - not your cookie-cutter dual ac/20 jager.

Dual AC-10s. You're not supposed to use MGs alone. You have to strip the armor off first and then pelt 'em with MGs. In my method I just spam them as they make him think I'm hitting his arms, all torsos, legs, and head simultaneously as I pepper him, while my cannons are concentrated a little more directly. By the time he realizes it he's already dead.

Also. Been a lot of things. My Raven 3-L uses flamers. I have done a Raven 4x with flamers, MGs, and SRM-6. However it did not have the speed necessary to make up for its frame and could not beat the AC-20 build I had.

Now, a Trebuchet.. Done it. Here.


The Spider I load up a Gauss Rifle or UAC-5 AC-2 combo. Yes it's possible. Yes it's freakin' hilarious. Yes, mechs RUN from the second of those two builds.

Now an MG spider? Back it up with a Large Pulse Laser, and it'll be worth something. Tear through the armor with the power of an AC-10 in laser form, and then MG the crap out of the spot. Aim for legs, where it'd be easiest to get ammo explosions. Or any point with a Gauss Rifle in it. Now your MG just got dangerous.

Takes 50 shots to get 2 damage. If all shots were strong crits, you'd do 6 damage. Engines have 3 Health. Do the math. What we need is engine crits enabled, and ammo health lowered to maybe 4. Then they would be purely devastating without changing any damage from the MGs as they are now.

If you treat the symptom (MGs feel useless), you solve nothing. Treat the problem (ammo has too much health, engine crits not enabled, gyro and structure crits not enabled; can't disable enemy actuators if we can't crit them).

Edited by Koniving, 08 April 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[FrostCollar]

Koniving, on 08 April 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

The Spider I load up a Gauss Rifle or UAC-5 AC-2 combo. Yes it's possible. Yes it's freakin' hilarious. Yes, mechs RUN from the second of those two builds.

Having tried the 2 AC2 RVN-4X and having had underwhelming performance with it, I am extremely dubious of this claim. Once you've put those in, what engine do you use?

[Joe Mallad]

Snaloe, on 08 April 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

Have just emailed them, I don't the they even checked before they answered this in the Ask the devs.

i did not email them and you are right, I don't think they even checked before answering on ask the DEVS lol

(Edit) I just sent in a support ticket.

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 08 April 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[Koniving]

Rashhaverak, on 08 April 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

This answer makes me sad. Essentially this means that we will be able to play with four friends, or 12 friends, but nothing in between. That's terrible.

Think you misunderstood.

He means the 8 vs 8 premade matches will be gone. It'll be 12 vs 12 or get out. It's possible that they will do 3x 4 mans, or maybe something along the lines of 6-man or 8-man groups into pug/premade matches.

I'm more inclined to believe 6 will be the limit.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Koniving, on 08 April 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Think you misunderstood.

He means the 8 vs 8 premade matches will be gone. It'll be 12 vs 12 or get out. It's possible that they will do 3x 4 mans, or maybe something along the lines of 6-man or 8-man groups into pug/premade matches.

I'm more inclined to believe 6 will be the limit.

No he's right.

Right now it's either 4 mans or 8 mans.

When they expand to 12's it'll be either 4 mans or 12 mans.

What he wants is to drop with a 5 man or a 6 man into the "PUG" queue, and have the final 6 or 7 spots be filled with PuGs, as an example.

It does seem very arbitrary to limit it to 4. But then again i feel like PUGs/Premades should be balanced via the matchmaker, and that most certainly doesn't happen.

So **** it.

[Joe Mallad]

I hope it's not going to be JUST 12 vs 12 all the time. It would be nice to do 4 vs 4 games and even still have 8 vs 8 when we want to play that way. I'm not going to always want to play 12 vs 12.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 April 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

I hope it's not going to be JUST 12 vs 12 all the time. It would be nice to do 4 vs 4 games and even still have 8 vs 8 when we want to play that way. I'm not going to always want to play 12 vs 12.

Unless their stance changes, they have said multiple times it's 12 vs 12 or bust. Whether it's in the 12 vs 12 queue or the PUG queue,

[Corvus Antaka]

fantastic Q/A

only dissappointment is the collisions being such a long wait!

DFA we miss you!!!!

<3

[Joe Mallad]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 08 April 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

Unless their stance changes, they have said multiple times it's 12 vs 12 or bust. Whether it's in the 12 vs 12 queue or the PUG queue,

that will have to change for CW. I know for fact that most Merc units are not going to want to have solo players thrown on their team in order to make a 12 vs 12 game limit. Not all units are always going to have on 12 players to fill those peramitors. If my unit only has 8 guys on or even a night where we have 4 guys on. We should be able to go into a 4 man lobby or 8 man lobby were we don't have to be teamed with solo players.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 08 April 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

fantastic Q/A

only dissappointment is the collisions being such a long wait!

DFA we miss you!!!!

<3

Suck up.

Collisions after release is crap and you know it.

[Koniving]

FrostCollar, on 08 April 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Having tried the 2 AC2 RVN-4X and having had underwhelming performance with it, I am extremely dubious of this claim. Once you've put those in, what engine do you use?

For the Spider? 175 XL. It's only 4 tons. It wasn't the AC-2 but the combo of the 2 that made it viable. Super limited ammo. I had 6 mechs running, they were rushing between buildings with no left or right path to go, and rather than try to push through me the guy in front (a trial build) started to run, and he made the others turn and run in order to get out of the way. A smart Cataphract was at the end and one shotted me, but that doesn't deny the fun of having enemies run away!

Currently my 5K sports a single UAC-5 with plenty of ammo. I upgraded the engine a bit and made it viable. I use it primarily as ranged support and scouting, although I nearly took down an Atlas solo before the team interfered.

Nearly killing the Atlas. Didn't start recording until I got him slightly orange because I didn't expect to do this well with it.


Best time I've had with a spider 5K on video.


Unfavorable builds Spider 5K builds found while testing.


Spider killing a 3-L, with the 3-L having done the first shot, at range, while being streaked, using an ER PPC... through the fog... with thermals off.



Using the spider to get to high points.
Second highest at the time of Spider release

The highest at the time of release.


Exploring reaching fancy areas of interest. (Didn't do great combat wise on these.)


As for your Raven problem, I suggest you try this build. Headshotting spiders with AC-20s has always been SO much fun!
http://www.youtube.c...XKRP4Czg#t=294s



And to leave you with this. Do NOT do this, and report anyone who actively does do this. We were testing something to give a bug report to support, I recorded the tests, made a compilation video letter directly to PGI about it, etc. to push for knockdowns sooner and to show some serious issues. Unlike previous tests, this one was so smooth and at first I remained on the Atlas's head to the third person in our group so I thought it was alright. I was wrong. Once we started fighting it became a bit of an exploit as I kept falling through his body through the eyes of everyone else. Still. It was fun. I do not condone this act, and insist that any actions along these lines be reported if used in combat or to rush bases.

Atlas, I the AC-20 Raven, stand on your head.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 April 2013 - 03:15 PM, said:

that will have to change for CW. I know for fact that most Merc units are not going to want to have solo players thrown on their team in order to make a 12 vs 12 game limit. Not all units are always going to have on 12 players to fill those peramitors. If my unit only has 8 guys on or even a night where we have 4 guys on. We should be able to go into a 4 man lobby or 8 man lobby were we don't have to be teamed with solo players.

Honestly I wish you were right.

But I think they want to limit small mercenary groups based on some of the recent interviews.

[TOGSolid]

Deathlike, on 08 April 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

The sad thing is, I don't think they take our points seriously.

I WANT TO ISSUE A CHALLENGE TO PGI:

Spend ONE week with a Spider-5K with 4 MGs (with energy weapon of choice). MUST START WITH 0XP AND NO EFFICIENCIES AND GRIND IT ALL THE WAY TO ACQUIRING ALL 4 ELITE SKILLS.

Then come back to us and tell us how "fun" this experience us. I want full details and a blog.

Yes, yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

[Joe Mallad]

My unit is a smaller unit... Yes. But we normally have on 8 to 12 guys when the game is running ok. But some nights we are lucky if we can get 8 guys on. So in instances like this, there should be smaller game lobbies for 4 man lance vs lance drops or 8 vs 8. If they make it only 12 vs 12 and force units to have to fill their numbers with solo players all the time... PGI is going to get a lot of backlash.x

Edited by Yoseful Mallad, 08 April 2013 - 03:30 PM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Yoseful Mallad, on 08 April 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

My unit is a smaller unit... Yes. But we normally have on 8 to 12 guys when the game is running ok. But some nights we are lucky if we can get 8 guys on. So in instances like this, there should be smaller game lobbies for 4 man lance vs lance drops or 8 vs 8. If they make it only 12 vs 12 and force units to have to fill their numbers with solo players all the time... You are going to get a lot of backlash.

Since when has that stopped PGI?

I'm just saying...that has been their stance the whole time.