337 replies to this topic

[Teralitha]

Yokaiko, on 11 April 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Yeah, that was the argument back in closed beta, you chose not to fire, I'm going to be busy using my more efficient build to blow you apart.

Ah... the very essence of heat managing skill. I do miss those days.....

Edited by Teralitha, 11 April 2013 - 09:46 AM.

[Tice Daurus]

Tennex, on 08 April 2013 - 06:35 PM, said:

I don't understand why the devs are so resistant to balance changes.

competitive games like league of legends, starcraft 2 make balance changes almost every patch.

For the OP...this is not a game where there are tens of millions of dollars thrown into the game by a big name publisher. This is PGI a small company trying to deal and cope with the proper balance of weapons in this game. Nuff said, deal with it.

[Ghogiel]

Teralitha, on 11 April 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

Ah... the very essence of heat managing skill. I do miss those days.....

No PPCs and no LL would be quite nostalgic.

[Yokaiko]

Ghogiel, on 11 April 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

No PPCs and no LL would be quite nostalgic.

Range = guass
any extra space =mlas
lights medium = a couple big weapons missiles/a ballisticor whatnot + slas

done. I just balanced every mech in closed beta.

[Teralitha]

Ghogiel, on 11 April 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

No PPCs and no LL would be quite nostalgic.

Nonsense. I used PPC/ERPPC, and LL on my best builds. Only difference? They were not boated, but fitted with a mix of weapons for high damage.heat long range hitting, and cooler, shorter range weapons for infighting. The essence of balanced builds and the skill of managing heat.

Where has it gone? Down the DHS drain.

Edited by Teralitha, 11 April 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[Mack1]

For me it's more about the stupid way they try to balance the game that leaves me scratching my head.

A typical example is SSRM damage, the missiles damage was actually fine, they were not OP but were also not useless, the whole problem with them was the Raven could use these with ECM and lag shield and own the battlefield. Why not just nerf the way Raven uses the ecm instead of making SSRM a worthless pile of junk. Same with LRM's they did not need to be nerfed into the ground.

The number 1 glaring most discussed imbalance in the entire game, the big cheese of imbalance, the one that is responsible for scaring away thousands of customers has never even been tweaked let alone fixed and that as we all know is Premades v PUG's! ELO did nothing at all to fix this, I have literally just ended an 8-1 battle and asked at the end who was in a premade, they had 2 (four man) teams, we were 8 soloists... honestly someone needs to be sacked here as this farce is just getting stupid. No wonder MWO has just a few thousand players, why on earth would anyone want to play a game when they get facerolled by premades every game.

Anyway am off to join up with my m8's now and pug stomp, I feel sorry for them as I know I am making their MWO mives a misery but what can I do? I can either join them and die or win pretty much 99% of my games this evening by being in a premade. It's a crazy situation and imho makes this game look like a pile of ***** to new players.

[Multitallented]

It's pretty easy to see that NARC/BAP are ****. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure PGI is waiting for HSR and collisions to come back in before doing more serious balance.

In the end, I agree with the OP. PGI has always been very slow to fix things--let alone produce core features of the game.

[Yokaiko]

Multitallented, on 11 April 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

It's pretty easy to see that NARC/BAP are ****. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure PGI is waiting for HSR and collisions to come back in before doing more serious balance.

No they aren't knockdowns aren't slated till after release.....you know, like in September.

[Ghogiel]

Teralitha, on 11 April 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Nonsense. I used PPC/ERPPC, and LL on my best builds. Only difference? They were not boated, but fitted with a mix of weapons for high damage.heat long range hitting, and cooler, shorter range weapons for infighting. The essence of balanced builds and the skill of managing heat.

Where has it gone? Down the DHS drain.

Your best builds sound **** for closed beta era.

[Nick Carlile]

Multitallented, on 11 April 2013 - 10:04 AM, said:

It's pretty easy to see that NARC/BAP are ****. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure PGI is waiting for HSR and collisions to come back in before doing more serious balance.

In the end, I agree with the OP. PGI has always been very slow to fix things--let alone produce core features of the game.

I just really do not understand why they take so long in beta. It's beta. If a weapon is OP for a week, it's not the end of the world.

But lets start making some adjustments.

[TruePoindexter]

Nick Carlile, on 11 April 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

I just really do not understand why they take so long in beta. It's beta. If a weapon is OP for a week, it's not the end of the world.

But lets start making some adjustments.

State rewind could shift balance wildly and is important to wait for. It'll be interesting when AC shots can be fired directly at the target as opposed to a nebulous area slightly ahead of the target.

[Nick Carlile]

I don't think that applies to Small Pulse Lasers, Flamers, MG's, or LBX10's.

[Roland]

Yokaiko, on 11 April 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Yeah, that was the argument back in closed beta, you chose not to fire, I'm going to be busy using my more efficient build to blow you apart.

Unless you already died by taking massive damage from the less efficient build which was capable of doing extra front loaded damage.

This is the critical aspect which makes low efficiency, high alpha builds viable. They are designed to cripple/kill mechs quickly, which then has the effect of giving them time to cool off.

[Roland]

Quote

It's not really though Roland. I can Choose not to fire for roughly 7 seconds(most cyclic rates are around 3 seconds).

Certainly, if you are unable to defend yourself for a full 7 seconds, and you are fully engaged.. things will go badly for you.

But this is how it's supposed to work.... if insanely hot builds were able to operate efficiently while under pressure, then they'd always win. It's why you're supposed to pressure super hot builds, because they generally can't sustain their fire without being given chances to cool down.

[Tie Ma]

Roland, on 11 April 2013 - 07:58 AM, said:

But it's not mucking up anything. You can simply CHOOSE NOT TO FIRE.

The control is being put in your hands. You seem to be suggesting that somehow the game would be better if it just didn't let you fire, but all you are doing at that point is removing a level of control from the pilot... that doesn't improve the game at all.

the attack speed of all weapons are increased in MWO. in TT lasers could fire as often as ballistics at 1.0 heat efficiency.

but since the increase in rate of fire, the engergy weapnos have taken the biggest hit. so that energy weapons can no longer fire like ballistic weapons at 1.0 heat efficiency.

seems like a big nerf to energy weapons relative to ballistics. especially big energy weapons.
thats why they had to go and buff all the heavy energy ewapons. the LL PPC etc etc.

if they had simply lowered the heat on all weapons to compensate for increase in RoF. they wouldn't have to do these buffs. and at the same time they would have made stock builds viable.

Edited by Tie Ma, 11 April 2013 - 05:10 PM.

[MadPanda]

TruePoindexter, on 11 April 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

State rewind could shift balance wildly and is important to wait for. It'll be interesting when AC shots can be fired directly at the target as opposed to a nebulous area slightly ahead of the target.

Umm no. Ballistics have flight time. You need to shoot ahead, just not as much.

[TruePoindexter]

MadPanda, on 11 April 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

Umm no. Ballistics have flight time. You need to shoot ahead, just not as much.

Yes but right now you have to fire so far ahead that visually the shot does not hit in any cases. Aka lag leading

[Teralitha]

Roland, on 11 April 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

Unless you already died by taking massive damage from the less efficient build which was capable of doing extra front loaded damage.

This is the critical aspect which makes low efficiency, high alpha builds viable. They are designed to cripple/kill mechs quickly, which then has the effect of giving them time to cool off.

If killing mechs faster was a goal of the designers, then why double the armor? If heat is meant to be a non balancing factor, then why have it?

Personally I think the devs have done what they intended to do, but its not turning out how they expected it be.


They wanted a game based on a high skill curve. Its not. It was in the past, but new features have dumbed it down. I believe they intended those features to increase the skill curve, but its had the opposite effect unfortunately. They need to rethink their core designs now that the game balance hasnt turned out the way they planned.

And they need to start by changing heat. Get rids of double heat sinks, and make adjustment to SHS to improve them slightly. The heat efficiency should be somewhere between where SHS are now, and the 1.4 DHS. Just one flat rate for heat sinks. Not a double system. Much easier to balance everything else if you have a singular heat system as opposed to a double.


Roland... the current high alpha builds are not low efficiency. If they were, I would agree with you. They are "too" heat efficient because of DHS


One example I will give... The 6 SML Jenner. Once the terror of the game with a mere 18 damage alpha strike, can now just as "efficiently" run with 5 medium lasers doing 25 damage, at longer range.... of course you dont see very many such jenners around because the ECM raven is much better with the ECM and ssrms. Even that raven is much too heat efficient. one of the reasons why its so good. It can practically spam its weapons all day.


As I have been saying... the underlying issue is heat.

Edited by Teralitha, 11 April 2013 - 06:50 PM.