21 replies to this topic

[Riffleman]

Lower machine gun ammo from 2000 per ton to 400 per ton, double tabletop as all the other balistics.

Make a machinegun "burst" 10 bullets that take as long to rake across the target as the small laser does.

Give the machinegun the same cooldown as the small laser. Make the damage done in that 10 bullet burst equal to 2 damage. Now you are done.

"BUT THAT'S STUPID!" I hear you say, " THEN THEY ARE JUST BETTER SMALL LASERS!"

No they aren't. The machinegun itself is .5 tons, but the ammo is still a ton, putting them .5 tons over a single small laser. Also the ammo explodes, like any balistic or missile ammo. If you went this route for machineguns, lets take the 4 MG spider as an example, You would need:

4 critical slots and 2 tons for the machineguns.
At this rate of fire, you would probably need at minimum 2 or 3 tons of ammo also, thats 20 or 30 alphas, for 8 damage, as opposed to 12 damage per alpha for 4 small lasers.

Take away their extra chance to crit items. Its already easy enough to lose em when the armor is gone as is.

PGI this isnt rocket surgery. It would be perfectly fair and balanced this way. The only reason you havent changed it to make sense like this is because it wasent your idea, and you would rather stick with a broken product rather than admit you might be wrong about this issue.

Try changing it, just say "after review and suggestions we have decided to rework the machinegun and flamer to be more useful". Nobody is going to tar and feather you. Everyone makes mistakes, and you have the chance to fix it.

[Tennex]

they haven't even tried just doing a plain DPS buff.

why are we proposing all these complex things

[Riffleman]

Tennex, on 08 April 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

they haven't even tried just doing a plain DPS buff.

why are we proposing all these complex things

This is just a dps buff. Reworked to make sense, without overpowering the 90 meter ranged machinegun like they fear.

[Roland]

Tennex, on 08 April 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

they haven't even tried just doing a plain DPS buff.

why are we proposing all these complex things

I know, really.

Spend 5 seconds. Change the damage in the game's configuration files.
Let us test it, and see how it affects gameplay.
That is the freaking point of being in god damned beta.

[Utilyan]

There is a ugly version of mechwarrior were machine guns are "good". Don't want to go back there. Keep machine guns like a filler to add drama. Go for looks and sounds, differ types of MGs to choose from.

When MGs were "good" a person could calculate the damage from thier ammo have a figure of nme center torsos and it was like a melee zip boom kill. It was real boring, lame. This was years ago.......I think thats where the word LAME comes from. It was that bad, that horrible.

You don't want "good" machine guns...........(jedi mind trick)

You want "fun" machine guns. Go for looks and sounds, differ types of machine guns, with customizable tracer colors, differ sounds, we could have classic dakka-dakka........the brrrrrup sound.........the rambo cha klanka clanka klanka!


This is one of those monkey's paw weapons.........careful what you wish for. Don't buff mgs........maybe little range......no stop it.

If they force machine guns to be "good" it should be bad vs armor, good vs unarmored........right now its worst vs unarmored.

[Riffleman]

Utilyan, on 08 April 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

There is a ugly version of mechwarrior were machine guns are "good". Don't want to go back there. Keep machine guns like a filler to add drama. Go for looks and sounds, differ types of MGs to choose from.

When MGs were "good" a person could calculate the damage from thier ammo have a figure of nme center torsos and it was like a melee zip boom kill. It was real boring, lame. This was years ago.......I think thats where the word LAME comes from. It was that bad, that horrible.

You don't want "good" machine guns...........(jedi mind trick)

You want "fun" machine guns. Go for looks and sounds, differ types of machine guns, with customizable tracer colors, differ sounds, we could have classic dakka-dakka........the brrrrrup sound.........the rambo cha klanka clanka klanka!


This is one of those monkey's paw weapons.........careful what you wish for. Don't buff mgs........maybe little range......no stop it.

If they force machine guns to be "good" it should be bad vs armor, good vs unarmored........right now its worst vs unarmored.

2 damage with the small laser duration and cooldown would hardly be "good" What it would be is "useable" instead of "potato"

[Noobzorz]

Utilyan, on 08 April 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

There is a ugly version of mechwarrior were machine guns are "good". Don't want to go back there. Keep machine guns like a filler to add drama. Go for looks and sounds, differ types of MGs to choose from.

If they force machine guns to be "good" it should be bad vs armor, good vs unarmored........right now its worst vs unarmored.

What we have is the mirror image of what you're talking about, and is almost as bad. Those MGs needed to be nerfed, these MGs needed to be buffed.

[FrostCollar]

Riffleman, on 08 April 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:

This is just a dps buff. Reworked to make sense, without overpowering the 90 meter ranged machinegun like they fear.

That fear has always been a paper tiger. You could triple MG damage and even then they'd have their share of disadvantages. You'd need a buff to shake the cosmos to make MGs overpowered.

[General Taskeen]

Utilyan, on 08 April 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

There is a ugly version of mechwarrior were machine guns are "good". Don't want to go back there. Keep machine guns like a filler to add drama.

Right... for Drama.

And if you are referring to MW3, it is a fine game.

[Xelah]

Utilyan, on 08 April 2013 - 07:04 PM, said:

There is a ugly version of mechwarrior were machine guns are "good". Don't want to go back there. Keep machine guns like a filler to add drama. Go for looks and sounds, differ types of MGs to choose from.

When MGs were "good" a person could calculate the damage from thier ammo have a figure of nme center torsos and it was like a melee zip boom kill. It was real boring, lame. This was years ago.......I think thats where the word LAME comes from. It was that bad, that horrible.

You don't want "good" machine guns...........(jedi mind trick)

You want "fun" machine guns. Go for looks and sounds, differ types of machine guns, with customizable tracer colors, differ sounds, we could have classic dakka-dakka........the brrrrrup sound.........the rambo cha klanka clanka klanka!


This is one of those monkey's paw weapons.........careful what you wish for. Don't buff mgs........maybe little range......no stop it.

If they force machine guns to be "good" it should be bad vs armor, good vs unarmored........right now its worst vs unarmored.

I wish we had the option to downvote.

[FupDup]

FupDup's Magical MG-Fixing Formula:

1. Up damage per bullet to ~0.16
2. Remove crit-seeking attribute
3. Reduce ammo per ton to ~800 (128 damage per ton)
4. Increase projectile speed to ~400 (current is 100)

Edited by FupDup, 08 April 2013 - 07:26 PM.

[Destoroyah]

I gotta agree on the grounds PGI needs to at least take the effort to let the community have a chance at trying a damage buffed MG for 1-2 months with suggested tweaks along the way and see how the community responds instead of stubbornly upholding a system that might be ultimately flawed. They could always revert to their current system if the test don't go well, and tweaking a few values shouldn't be all that hard to do. I mean this is BETA and the point is to TEST things. The only time MGs were good was way way way way back in closed beta before they got nerfed into the ground and that was back when the game had tons of performance and balance issues it doesn't now.

[Dexion]

I want a "You asked for it" weekend, where they buff MG's DMG, with a note in the Patch-Notes.. "Ok, you asked for it, this weekend only we are removing the crit seeking and increasing the Damage on MG's, we will evaluate the data at the end of the weekend when we remove the sales."

Of course, after having useful MG's for a weekend, it would be mean to take them away...

I love the fears of a 6 MG spider killing an atlas from behind... right, because a 6 SL jenner can'a already do that if the Atlas pilot isn't bright.

[Corbon Zackery]

M903 SLAP (Saboted Light Armor Penetrator) round can perforate 1.34 inches (34 mm) of HHA (face-hardened steel plate) at 500 metres (550 yd), 0.91 inches (23 mm) at 1,200 metres (1,300 yd), and 0.75 inches (19 mm) at 1,500 metres (1,600 yd).


This is the best round possible for a 50 Cal. and it would do nothing to a mech with a 1 ton steel plate. Your looking at a steel plate that weighs the same as a car. You would have to be as close as 90meters to do some damage and need a lot of ammo.

[FupDup]

Corbon Zackery, on 08 April 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

M903 SLAP (Saboted Light Armor Penetrator) round can perforate 1.34 inches (34 mm) of HHA (face-hardened steel plate) at 500 metres (550 yd), 0.91 inches (23 mm) at 1,200 metres (1,300 yd), and 0.75 inches (19 mm) at 1,500 metres (1,600 yd).


This is the best round possible for a 50 Cal. and it would do nothing to a mech with a 1 ton steel plate. Your looking at a steel plate that weighs the same as a car. You would have to be as close as 90meters to do some damage and need a lot of ammo.

We're not firing 50 cal's here (most don't weight 500 kilograms). Also, mech armor is ablative, meaning that it's designed to have the outer layers flake off as it takes damage.

[Utilyan]

The strongest mgs have been happened in feb when they introduced the trebs. I got im cicada 4mg started scoring 250 damage per round getting 3 kills here and there........that day if you lost your armor you were dead........the next patch they nerfed it was doing like damage in the 20s....

Are you sure you want to hand my cicada a heatless burst fire....ac/8 short range cannon that fires at the speed of a small laser? with small laser's duration/recycle 3 seconds....... 24 damage in 10 secs?

I'm killing people as is.........

When any buff comes to MG i'll be a kid in a candy store. no sweat

[Utilyan]

General Taskeen, on 08 April 2013 - 07:16 PM, said:

Right... for Drama.

And if you are referring to MW3, it is a fine game.

I liked Mw3 because it had mecha-godzilla.

No im refering to MWO back when it was a like a mod in microsoft gaming zone, like way way back in some other alternate reality, maybe even late 90s. Might have even been a mechwarrior 2 mod or battlefield 1942. The MGs would zip through ammo 200 ammo, 400 damage, no hardpoints then.

See how the cockpit screens that say no input would change the displays with the Fkeys, I want to say frozen city was the only map. I got a pretty good memory when it comes to this stuff.......you might not remember.......... microsoft-neuralizer crap doesn't work on me.

[xenoglyph]

OP's idea kicks ***

[Riffleman]

Utilyan, on 08 April 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

The strongest mgs have been happened in feb when they introduced the trebs. I got im cicada 4mg started scoring 250 damage per round getting 3 kills here and there........that day if you lost your armor you were dead........the next patch they nerfed it was doing like damage in the 20s....

Are you sure you want to hand my cicada a heatless burst fire....ac/8 short range cannon that fires at the speed of a small laser? with small laser's duration/recycle 3 seconds....... 24 damage in 10 secs?

I'm killing people as is.........

When any buff comes to MG i'll be a kid in a candy store. no sweat

Still rather be fighting your cicada then one with 6 small lasers.

[MadPanda]

Dexion, on 08 April 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

I love the fears of a 6 MG spider killing an atlas from behind... right, because a 6 SL jenner can'a already do that if the Atlas pilot isn't bright.

Where has this fantasy "6 MG Spider" come from? Most MG's you can equip is 4 on the SDR-5K. And if MG's would be buffed to deal equal fps (or little lower) than small lasers, then you would have a spider with 4 Small Lasers, who is scared of that? Lmao.