1386 replies to this topic

[shintakie]

Victor Morson, on 04 July 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Machine Guns will never be better until they either massively out-DPS small lasers or front load the damage. I'd take the latter.

If they were a weapon that could fire for a duration but overheat (the gun, not the 'mech), giving them brief 2-3 seconds bursts of a lot of firepower followed by a few seconds of calm, they'd be in far far far better shape.

In this situation it would let you make a pass, hose a target down, and then go evasive to counter their weapons fire.

Basically any weapon that forces you to point straight at a target for prolonged periods of time is at a huge disadvantage and it needs to be considered first when looking at the gun's other capabilities.

I get the argument there, but truth be told I really really like the feel of the MG. Its usually a terrible terrible weapon, opens you up to massive firepower without the ability to mitigate it without losin damage uptime, and you have to keep the mouse button down all the time (an odd annoyance, but it bothers me).

However! Its fun to use. The constant barrage of rounds and the absolutely wonderful sound effect are a pleasure to use. Its fun to just spray bullets at an enemy mech (even if its largely ineffective).

Turnin them into short cd weapons would most definitely lose that wonderful flavor of the MG. Its the only weapon system of its kind (well, 1 of 2 if you count the flamer).

Plus how could I bring the DAKKA if I don't have constant fire from my MG's. Gotta have my dakka!

[Amsro]

Victor Morson, on 04 July 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

That's a 16 point alpha that you could fit on a freaking Locust, say nothing of a Spider!

Since when is anyone scared of a 16 point alpha?!!

I think that this would be near acceptable for a light, still not amazing tho.

[Waking One]

Amsro, on 04 July 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

Since when is anyone scared of a 16 point alpha?!!

I think that this would be near acceptable for a light, still not amazing tho.

in this game it would translate to MGs doing AC2 dps

i wouldn't mind, but some would whine

[Amsro]

Waking One, on 04 July 2013 - 07:54 PM, said:

in this game it would translate to MGs doing AC2 dps

i wouldn't mind, but some would whine

That would be exactly what machine guns are, AC2 with NO range and NO heat.

Anyone who thinks this is too good is forgetting that lights can be obliterated with a couple ppc's or gauss. As well If you let a 6 MG jaggermech sneak up on you we'll prepare for dakka. (I don't even own a jaggermech)

Making the weapons in the game viable makes for more diverse gameplay, there seems to be a elite weapon until it gets the nerf bat instead of a tweak to balance it. LRM's had there rainfire day, SRM's dominated for a while now is the months of PPC.

Weapons need to be tweaked and applied and experimented far more often and with smaller increments, right now we're in a whirlwind of balances and paste over fixes that take months to apply.

[megoblocks]

The 4mg spider (plus the small / medium laser of your choosing) works really well. With 4 mgs and the high extra damage on crits means internals don't last long once the armor is gone. It's not a primary weapon at all, but I've had a lot of success with it as of late.

[Deathlike]

Internals don't take more damage.... it's the stuff IN the internals (DHS for instance) that goes quickly. That is the fallacy you are making.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

I love the machinegun fix so far, that is all.

[Madwill]

Eric darkstar Marr, on 06 July 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

I love the machinegun fix so far, that is all.

agreed, it's not meant to be a main weapon, but, unleashed upon a damaged mech it works as it should, stripping off the last points of armor before tearing up the internals.

[Phoenix Branson]

Paul, Machine Guns are almost there man. Good Work! However, a few more changes are required.

I suggest PGI removes the cone of fire completely while increasing the damage from 0.10 to 0.16/bullet.

[Amsro]

Madwill, on 06 July 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

agreed, it's not meant to be a main weapon, but, unleashed upon a damaged mech it works as it should, stripping off the last points of armor before tearing up the internals.

But the funny part is.. thats not what machine guns do, they don't tear up internals, they "crit" equipment you have stored in unarmored areas (Heat Sinks, Ammo etc..) . Besides that they do NEGLIGIBLE damage, even 4 on a locust or spider only does lol damage per match with this setup, without the ER large laser the SDR would be useless the same way a locust will be.

[shintakie]

Maverick01, on 06 July 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Paul, Machine Guns are almost there man. Good Work! However, a few more changes are required.

I suggest PGI removes the cone of fire completely while increasing the damage from 0.10 to 0.16/bullet.

Removal of the CoF with the damage either at 1.2 maxin out at 1.4(higher if they can't fix shots just not happenin on the MG) would make the MG perfect. It'd make it so that it actually becomes a viable option to shove 2 on a mech with ballistic slots where the ballistic isn't a primary weapon or where the mech has far more ballistic slots than it could possibly use.

Would it give more oomph the to the mechs that can boat them? Sure, but there's nothin inherently wrong with that, especially if it makes it so that the light ballistic mechs and the Cicada 3C can be viable.

[Leafia Barrett]

shintakie, on 06 July 2013 - 07:41 PM, said:

Would it give more oomph the to the mechs that can boat them? Sure, but there's nothin inherently wrong with that, especially if it makes it so that the light ballistic mechs and the Cicada 3C can be viable.

The way I see it, if the Spider 5K can be considered as good as the Spider 5D, then we're probably on the right track.

[Team Leader]

1.6 DPS would be perfect. Not too much so you can just hose enemies with the MG, but enough that using it as a skilled brawler weapon would provide a good amount of damage if you take multiples.

[Amsro]

Leafia Barrett, on 07 July 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

The way I see it, if the Spider 5K can be considered as good as the Spider 5D, then we're probably on the right track.

Good luck ever making the spider 5K as good as the 5D.

[Deathlike]

Amsro, on 08 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Good luck ever making the spider 5K as good as the 5D.

It needs to beat the 5V and that in itself is a tall tale to begin with.

[Seddrik]

I liked MGs before the "buff". Low damage but very nice crits on exposed parts worked magic from a spider or any mech for thatmatter. Now... damage has been upped and crits over all reduced. Results? People crying for MGs to be like a small lazer got closer to their desire, but the damage and crits are now both middle of the round & weak.

The issue was not that MGs had no use, but that people did not know how to use MGs. Not design error, but pilot error. Please leave variety in the game. Don't turn MGs into just another small laser.


The 5k is a fun spider. Especially if you have two 5ks running together its pretty fantastic what they can do.

Edited by Seddrik, 08 July 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[White Bear 84]

megoblocks, on 05 July 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

The 4mg spider (plus the small / medium laser of your choosing) works really well. With 4 mgs and the high extra damage on crits means internals don't last long once the armor is gone. It's not a primary weapon at all, but I've had a lot of success with it as of late.

This. I love the little ******. Only thing i fear in it though are streak lights... ...its a mech designed to go in there and finish up once armor has gone, or to pester and pound lone mechs. Best for sneaking up behind mechs and dakkin away.

MG close to right, i think that the damage should go up from 0.08 to 0.12 though.

Anyone that complains about a 6 MG jager.. ..what are you doing letting a jager get that close

Edited by White Bear 84, 08 July 2013 - 06:00 PM.

[ICEFANG13]

Seddrik, on 08 July 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

I liked MGs before the "buff". Low damage but very nice crits on exposed parts worked magic from a spider or any mech for thatmatter. Now... damage has been upped and crits over all reduced. Results? People crying for MGs to be like a small lazer got closer to their desire, but the damage and crits are now both middle of the round & weak.

The issue was not that MGs had no use, but that people did not know how to use MGs. Not design error, but pilot error. Please leave variety in the game. Don't turn MGs into just another small laser.


The 5k is a fun spider. Especially if you have two 5ks running together its pretty fantastic what they can do.

If you had 2 5Ks then you had only 6 pilots on your team. Anyone who tired to justify MGs as crit seekers don't understand how TT work or how MWO works.

Let me spell this out for you.

If your mech cannot realistically kill a mech, then you are worthless and weakening your team. Did you know that a Small Laser will destroy the part before MGs can take care of the internal stuff? Yeah, that's pretty sad.

The test was done without armor BTW, back at .4 DPS.

[Amsro]

Seddrik, on 08 July 2013 - 04:14 PM, said:

I liked MGs before the "buff". Low damage but very nice crits on exposed parts worked magic from a spider or any mech for thatmatter. Now... damage has been upped and crits over all reduced. Results? People crying for MGs to be like a small lazer got closer to their desire, but the damage and crits are now both middle of the round & weak.

The issue was not that MGs had no use, but that people did not know how to use MGs. Not design error, but pilot error. Please leave variety in the game. Don't turn MGs into just another small laser.


The 5k is a fun spider. Especially if you have two 5ks running together its pretty fantastic what they can do.

How many matches have you played in your fun spider? Makes for a great troll mech right now, other then that good luck being competitive.

How about we change other weapons too while were at it, instead of ultra ac/5 doing damage how about 5 X the crit bonus of MG? no sounds dumb? though so.

[Leafia Barrett]

I keep trying to think of something to say, but everything I think of has already been said.
Even if it was perfectly accurate, considering its 0 heat and light weight, the fact remains that not only is it one of the shortest range weapons in the game (only ahead of the SL/SPL, from what I know), it has a DPS that's only 1/4 that of the other ballistics, and you have to hold a constant lock on the target to do that. Realistically, the only way it's going to get a kill is if it gets the vanishingly small chance of causing an ammo explosion. Since it doesn't cause any extra damage to internals like so many people are convinced it does, it really is just a good wait of removing paint, and nothing more. You're better off just using a weapon that can destroy the internal instead of the components it's holding.