1386 replies to this topic

[Kilbourne Jorgensson]

The MG is a no talent weapon. I don't think it has a place in MWO. Machine guns are and should be useless against an armored target. They had them in MechWarrior 2 but no one ever really equipped them seriously. They should be gone.

[FupDup]

Kilbourne Jorgensson, on 19 July 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

The MG is a no talent weapon. I don't think it has a place in MWO. Machine guns are and should be useless against an armored target. They had them in MechWarrior 2 but no one ever really equipped them seriously. They should be gone.

[Amsro]

Kilbourne Jorgensson, on 19 July 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

The MG is a no talent weapon. I don't think it has a place in MWO. Machine guns are and should be useless against an armored target. They had them in MechWarrior 2 but no one ever really equipped them seriously. They should be gone.

To get any damage at this point takes enough skill to get inside 120m of any mech and hold on target for 10- 900 seconds, while not dying.

And the current prize for said work is making the enemy mad while his speakers explode from 4x dakka dakka.

[stjobe]

Kilbourne Jorgensson, on 19 July 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

The MG is a no talent weapon.

No... Talent?!

It's arguably the hardest weapon to get any use out of at all, and you call it a "no talent" weapon? What the...?

Kilbourne Jorgensson, on 19 July 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

I don't think it has a place in MWO. Machine guns are and should be useless against an armored target.

Machine Guns in BattleTech aren't the machine guns you see today. In the same way that BattleTech's Autocannons aren't anything similar to modern-day autocannons (ACs evolved from Rifles, which evolved from the main guns of modern-day tanks), Machine Guns are 'mech-sized anti-'mech and anti-infantry weapons, at least 20mm in calibre and fully capable of punching holes in 'mech armour as well as laying entire infantry platoons to waste.

While the second capability is indeed wasted in MWO, the first should be quite useful.

Next time you think ".50 BMG" when you think BattleTech Machine Gun, think "that sucker is mounted on a 30-60 feet tall walking armoured killing machine - they've gotta be HUGE!", and you're probably more correct.

Kilbourne Jorgensson, on 19 July 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

They had them in MechWarrior 2 but no one ever really equipped them seriously. They should be gone.

Nonsense. The MG has been a staple of the BattleTech Universe since its inception - as an anti-'mech weapon - and it should absolutely not "be gone". It should be made in to a effective, light-weight ballistic option for 'mechs not capable of mounting the larger ballistics.

Ideally by making it a very short-ranged AC/2.

[Utilyan]

I'd like to hear an explination on how easy or hard it is to fight with MGs on TT.

Like if a mech tried to stay out the range of a MG would that be hard? in other words would chasing a mech shooting him with MGs be a easy task?



I'm wondering if maybe they are sopose to be high damage as a AC/2 but maybe needs some long revving up delay before opening fire..... Like a cranking up gattling gun you see in other games......so it might take like 3-5 secs delay before even bullets come out.....

[stjobe]

Utilyan, on 20 July 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

I'd like to hear an explination on how easy or hard it is to fight with MGs on TT.

Like if a mech tried to stay out the range of a MG would that be hard? in other words would chasing a mech shooting him with MGs be a easy task?

As long as you have superior mobility over your opponent, staying in or out of MG range is not hard in TT. The problem of course is that you take turns moving, and you roll for initiative every turn, so one turn you might move after your opponent and can then position yourself as you want in relation to him, and the next you move before your opponent and he can position himself as he wants in relation to you. The smart light 'mech will spend a lost initiative turn (i.e. when you move before your opponent) moving as much as possible, and use the won initiative turn to end up behind his opponent.

With a fast, agile 'mech it's not terribly hard to force a slower opponent to have high to-hit numbers while keeping your own a bit lower, skewing the odds in your favour. Your opponent gets more to-hit penalty the more hexes you move (up to +4 for 10+ hexes), whereas you only get +1 for walking, +2 for running, or +3 for jumping (see http://www.sarna.net/wiki/CBT_Tables).

Utilyan, on 20 July 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

I'm wondering if maybe they are sopose to be high damage as a AC/2 but maybe needs some long revving up delay before opening fire..... Like a cranking up gattling gun you see in other games......so it might take like 3-5 secs delay before even bullets come out.....

They are supposed to be exactly the same damage as an AC/2.

The "revving up" idea isn't a great one in my mind, but it could possibly be used as an in-universe explanation to a cooldown, were the MG ever to be re-implemented as a burst-fire weapon.

[Warge]

stjobe, on 21 July 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

They are supposed to be exactly the same damage as an AC/2.

"Beware 6*MG Spider." (c) PGI

[Leafia Barrett]

Warge, on 21 July 2013 - 06:16 AM, said:

"Beware 6*MG Spider." © PGI

12DPS potential at close range, but only if you keep a steady aim on the target, and no matter how good you are, you're going to end up spreading that damage all over the target, even if the MG had perfect accuracy.

[Warge]

Leafia Barrett, on 21 July 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

12DPS potential at close range,

lol, man! Your don't now anything about "6*MG Spider" joke?

[Leafia Barrett]

Warge, on 21 July 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

lol, man! Your don't now anything about "6*MG Spider" joke?

Oh, I know the joke. I was just assuming that PGI might put an actual 6MG Spider into the game as a hero mech- seems like the kinda thing they'd do.

[Deathlike]

Leafia Barrett, on 21 July 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Oh, I know the joke. I was just assuming that PGI might put an actual 6MG Spider into the game as a hero mech- seems like the kinda thing they'd do.

PGI wouldn't rush to put such a Spider Hero out... even if massive hilarity would ensure.

There's a greater chance that a heavy (Catapult, maybe Orion) or Atlas Hero would be released... for the money.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 July 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[FupDup]

Deathlike, on 21 July 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

PGI wouldn't rush to put such a Spider Hero out... even if massive hilarity would ensure.

There's a greater chance that a heavy (Catapult, maybe Orion) or Atlas Hero would be released... for the money.

Or they could just give us a hero 6 MG Urbanmech. Imagine the sales from that thing...

[Warge]

Leafia Barrett, on 21 July 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

I was just assuming that PGI might put an actual 6MG Spider into the game as a hero mech- seems like the kinda thing they'd do.

I now expect that they can do such a thing. And even more...

[stjobe]

Leafia Barrett, on 21 July 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Oh, I know the joke. I was just assuming that PGI might put an actual 6MG Spider into the game as a hero mech- seems like the kinda thing they'd do.

They will never do that. It would be like saying "look! We know we ****** up with both the MG and the ill-conceived 6MG remark we used as an pathetic excuse for not buffing it for the longest time!" - and that's a bit more humility and a bit less ego than I give them credit for (at the moment).

[Utilyan]

FupDup, on 21 July 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Or they could just give us a hero 6 MG Urbanmech. Imagine the sales from that thing...

Urbanmech................one day we shall be free brothers...... One day PGI's mercy on those elitist powergaming premies will run out..... and they will release the fearless one.....

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 21 July 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Or they could just give us a hero 6 MG Urbanmech. Imagine the sales from that thing...

If the Urbie had 6 omni hardpoints, I'm all in.

[HammerSwarm]

Machine guns are better but they are not fixed yet. Increasing the damage was a step in the right direction. I believe the next fix is that the stupid cone of fire needs to go. I have no idea what I am hitting when I use machine guns but I know that they are doing something so I keep using them.

I pilot a lot of dragons (I love them) and I am always looking for more speed. so I have switched out auto cannons for machine guns on 1 or 2 dragons now. Mixed results. I have no idea what the machine guns are adding match to match but they are constantly firing on target when I am running circles around them, or chasing them down because stupid medium pilots think that they can outrun a dragon.

in my 1N (the last variant I didn't own) in my first match with 2 SSRMs, a LPL, a PPC, and 2 Machine Guns I was doing 300-400 damage without any efficencies unlocked. It was fast, and fun. Lights didn't know what to do when I was keeping pace with them. Thankfully they didn't run in circles because I don't have anchor turn or twist x yet.

I am happy with my dragon at Damage > 300 levels.

I would like to see a better post fight damage breakdown.

Edited by HammerSwarm, 22 July 2013 - 05:56 AM.

[Leafia Barrett]

Kilbourne Jorgensson, on 19 July 2013 - 07:57 PM, said:

Machine guns are and should be useless against an armored target.

Here's food for thought. One ton of machine gun ammo contains 2000 rounds, right? By extension, that means that every single one of those "little" bullets the MG spews out weighs a full pound. Don't even try to tell me that one-pound bullets at 10/sec wouldn't do anything against armor.

[Bishop Steiner]

Leafia Barrett, on 22 July 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Here's food for thought. One ton of machine gun ammo contains 2000 rounds, right? By extension, that means that every single one of those "little" bullets the MG spews out weighs a full pound. Don't even try to tell me that one-pound bullets at 10/sec wouldn't do anything against armor.

Well, don't forget a 1/4 of that would probably be the disintegrating links. so 12 oz per round. Using the 50 BMG as an example, each round weighs about 4.5 oz. of that, 1.5 or so is the actual bullet, the rest being casing, primer, powder, etc.

So about 1/3 of each round being the actual bullet. So lets apply that to your 2000 rds, and you get a throw weight of approximately 4 oz. Or 2.5 times the mass of a 50 BMG, used as anti material/anti armor today.

by contrast, the cartridge for a GUA-8 Avenger Cannon weigh 15 oz.

The 20mm Vulcan fires a 3.5 oz bullet, so I would say, lets play it safe and compare the "MG" on a battlemech to an M-61 20mm VULCAN CANNON which, with fees system comes in at a svelte 650 lbs.

So yes, for all intents and purposes, the CLAN MG should be a Vulcan Cannon. But apparently, it's only for anti-infantry purposes.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 July 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Megatron Overlord]

Don't give me that "machine guns armored target" staff. Giant walking robots are sitting ducks targets and are ineffective to begin with, it is a fantasy, a cool staff, sci-fi. Millions of players don't have a problem with machine gun armed marine killing a battlecruser in StarCraft 2, well, I don't see why anyone should go batcrazy about it here. It is super cool happy weapon. That's what games are about. Happiness. And realism sucks, doesn't make no one happy, actually. So just drop it.

Currently I enjoy my 5 machine guns on Jager-6 DD, it is extremely fun to rain down bullets right into some heat-powered down mech's cockpit. And it is real arm-tearing staff, too, with a little laser help.
Overall, damage is a little, well.. not very impressive. Will it be mega OP if it is a bit bigger? Let's see, m guns have very limited range. It is actually hard to use them at all, without getting killed first. Then, you have to maintain constant fire to do damage. Impulse is ~zero, right? They don't heat - well, dual ultra ac-5 don't do much either, ac 10 too, that's killer weapons. And 2 machine guns, 1 ton, + minimum 1 ton ammo, hey, it's two medium lasers. So any practical player would never use machine guns at all - why? And those like me who do - for sheer happiness of firing it - they risk to become unhappy, cause there's little result.

So I say, YES, yes it needs some kind of a boost.

PS: Ah, yes, for those of you "realistic" guys, they are not your usual bullets, they're like Warhammer 40k bolter bullets - shaped charges really - with positronic-activated acid inside.

Edited by Megatron Overlord, 25 July 2013 - 05:26 PM.