252 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

also; part of the reason I have the buddahcjcc account is I didnt like the name for my mechwarrior and theres no way to change names other than to make a new account, so I made another, yet similar account when I bought in on my founders. This one lol

[Yokaiko]

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Maybe it wasnt a programming error, but it was an error of judgment.

There were other factors at play.

If you remember that was a couple of the original quirks, the Dragon was set to 100 tons, and the Catapult was set to 50, the XML was posted on the CB boards.

It ALSO took engines into account like the TT. That was the BIG screw up, the Dragon with a 400 counted as an Atlas ....just moving 116kph, which basically knocked down anything it brushed. Once that was figured out the guys were running around with an SRM6 and a couple lasers and linebackering everything they could find.

If you stayed around a 300 engine size the Dragon wasn't nearly as hard to knock over.

[FupDup]

About the Mack truck example: An unloaded Mack weighs between 30,000 and 35,000 pounds. The VW Beetle weighs 1,850 pounds. That means the Mack weighs 16.22-18.92 times more than the Beetle.


An Atlas only weighs 2.78 times more than a Jenner. Also, Kinetic Energy = 1/2MV^2. If you look at that equation, you'll see that velocity has a much bigger impact on the kinetic energy than mass. An Atlas with max engine and speed tweak can move at 64.2 KPH. A Jenner with max engine and ST can go 152.7 KPH.

Atlas Kinetic Energy: (1/2 x 100) 64.2^2 = 206082 some unit of energy
Jenner Kinetic Energy: (1/2 x 35) 152.7^2 = 408052.575 some unit of energy


Let's put this into perspective a little bit. I weigh around 148 pounds. Pretend that I'm an Atlas. The equivalent of a Jenner against me would weigh 53.24 pounds. If a 50+ pound object smashed into me at 94.883381 miles per hour, I would be in for a world of pain and probably lose whatever body part hit. Of course, if that 50 pound object was a human being, then they would probably be killed outright. Translated to MWO, the Jenner would asplode instantly and the Atlas would lose his leg and probably take some internal damage to other body parts due to energy transfer.

[PropagandaWar]

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

" You don't see how that fact that a Jenner could knock down ANYTHING was wrong and was one of the most obvious of the issues with the collisions? "

One bugged mech does not equal a whole broken system, i dont see how its justification for removing collision from the game for so long. Hell remove the jenner for all i care since thats what was causing the problem.

"And the fact that for TWO STRAIGHT MINUTES, Paul's Catapult got knocked down over and over and over without blowing up? "

Not. Representative. Of. Normal. Play.

"No, you and Yokaiko both feel that the collisions were ok but the warping was the problem, you totally disregard the fact that there was 1 point of damage per collision, MASS had no effect on that at all"

So what you're saying is out of all the problems collision supposedly caused; the worst one is not doing enough damage. Well i think that would probably have been easy to fix. And isnt really a major issue compared to the problems with the rest of the game, unadressed, we have several months later.

" Not to mention that fact that at 20m distance, you could trip over someone else's stationary Mech due to how bad the collision detection code was?"

And how much better is the netcode now than it was then? This problem would have fixed itself. Also given the fact that none of the mechs in the game can stop on a dime im willing to bet that if you go within 20m of something 99% of the time you are going to step on it, regardless of your input. 20m is probably well within the bounds of error caused by simple latency if you live outside of north america.

Actually a jenner running 130 right into the a atlases leg knocking them both down made perfect sense. A hunchback not doing the same didnt however.

[Yokaiko]

The unit of energy is joules.

FupDup, on 09 April 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

Translated to MWO, the Jenner would asplode instantly and the Atlas would lose his leg and probably take some internal damage to other body parts due to energy transfer.

This is why we don't want real physics, half of the team wouldn't make it out of the spawn points.

[Megalosauroid]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 April 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

ok, Ill bite; debate the merits of a system where when you are the last mech alive on your side the other team then desides to bowl you for over two minutes straight to have fun.
And dont say "just DC"
Thats not a merit based on the system.

Lets debate the merits of ECM when im the last mech left and im a cataput A1 with only streaks.

Lets debate the merits of using the english language when im a french speaking, colour blind, autist.

Lets debate the merits of internal combustion in a world with no fossil fuels left.

Yes you can invent a circumstance where anything is broken, it doesnt make for a good argument though. If you want i can go and get 8 people on teamspeak, leg the last member of the enemy team in conquest, uncap all the points and then go and hide for the remaining 10 minutes of the match. So you can cry legging is overpowered.

[FupDup]

Yokaiko, on 09 April 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

The unit of energy is joules.

For joules you need to use m/s for speed and kg for mass, and I'm too lazy to translate metric tons and KPH to those for the Atlas vs Jenner example.

[ciller]

My question is how can you test collisions if they are not going to be released until after launch?

I think this is a terrible decision and I would like to know why PGI has decided to do this. I imagine it is because IGP has dictated a very specific release date for launch and it will take about until this dictated date for collisions to get to a level where it can be played.

Not a smart way to do it.

[Toothless]

Im not up in arms because there is too much awful bush league elements to the game to crusade for each one.

[Yokaiko]

FupDup, on 09 April 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

For joules you need to use m/s for speed and kg for mass, and I'm too lazy to translate metric tons and KPH to those for the Atlas vs Jenner example.

Yes standard SI units.

A metric ton is 1000kg and you have to dump everything down to meters per second, multiply KPH by 1000 then divide by 3600, and square that.

Otherwise you are squaring out of standard and there is no unit.


Oh and the answer is 7,444 Gigajoules, (7.44x10^16)J

Edited by Yokaiko, 09 April 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[Devil Fox]

Yokaiko, on 09 April 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

The unit of energy is joules.



This is why we don't want real physics, half of the team wouldn't make it out of the spawn points.

Do they at the moment?

Very disappointing that collisions are being pushed back, they are an integral part of balance we require in the game... they then hinted at a return with the Highlander, but now we have to find out in a wave of pointless questions that have standardised responses that this important system won't be implemented anytime soon.

You wonder why the community on the forums is actually skeptical of PGI and what they say now. They either say alot of stuff to give you hope only to delay it or revert what they actually said. The issue is their bleeding customers to other games who come back in 3 months time with no idea with how PGI are treating the customer base.

[Yokaiko]

I think its safe to say that all of it would explode.

[FupDup]

Yokaiko, on 09 April 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Yes standard SI units.

A metric ton is 1000kg and you have to dump everything down to meters per second, multiply KPH by 1000 then divide by 3600, and square that.

Otherwise you are squaring out of standard and there is no unit.

If I did this correctly:

Atlas: 1/2(100000) x 17.83^2 = 15901388.89 Joules
Jenner: 1/2 (35000) x 42.42^2 = 31485538.19 Joules

Edited by FupDup, 09 April 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

FupDup, on 09 April 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

About the Mack truck example: An unloaded Mack weighs between 30,000 and 35,000 pounds. The VW Beetle weighs 1,850 pounds. That means the Mack weighs 16.22-18.92 times more than the Beetle.


An Atlas only weighs 2.78 times more than a Jenner. Also, Kinetic Energy = 1/2MV^2. If you look at that equation, you'll see that velocity has a much bigger impact on the kinetic energy than mass. An Atlas with max engine and speed tweak can move at 64.2 KPH. A Jenner with max engine and ST can go 152.7 KPH.

Atlas Kinetic Energy: (1/2 x 100) 64.2^2 = 206082 some unit of energy
Jenner Kinetic Energy: (1/2 x 35) 152.7^2 = 408052.575 some unit of energy


Let's put this into perspective a little bit. I weigh around 148 pounds. Pretend that I'm an Atlas. The equivalent of a Jenner against me would weigh 53.24 pounds. If a 50+ pound object smashed into me at 94.883381 miles per hour, I would be in for a world of pain and probably lose whatever body part hit. Of course, if that 50 pound object was a human being, then they would probably be killed outright. Translated to MWO, the Jenner would asplode instantly and the Atlas would lose his leg and probably take some internal damage to other body parts due to energy transfer.

love when ppl bring real life physics in to explain a game where the handwavium structure can support a 100 ton bipedal war machine

[Yokaiko]

FupDup, on 09 April 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

For joules you need to use m/s for speed and kg for mass, and I'm too lazy to translate metric tons and KPH to those for the Atlas vs Jenner example.

I did the energy calculation, I can't be arsed to do an inelastic collision.

FupDup, on 09 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

If I did this correctly:

Atlas: 1/2(100000) x 17.83^2 = 15901388.89 Joules
Jenner: 1/2 (35000) x 42.42^2 = 31485538.19 Joules

Way higher, the velocity side is first [(150*1000)/3600]^2 now multiply that times 35000, just for the jenner.

Edited by Yokaiko, 09 April 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

PropagandaWar, on 09 April 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Actually a jenner running 130 right into the a atlases leg knocking them both down made perfect sense. A hunchback not doing the same didnt however.

except for the part where the Jenner is not nearly destroyed in the process.

[FupDup]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 April 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

love when ppl bring real life physics in to explain a game where the handwavium structure can support a 100 ton bipedal war machine

It's basically to show the point that bigger =/= better. Implementing physics 1:1 would be pretty terrible, but what people in this thread propose is the polar opposite.

Judging by the tone of most of the people in this thread, they want a tractor beam to pull in mechs that weigh less than themselves, and whenever they hit something their own armor gets repaired to full and the enemy's mech is deleted from their account.

Edited by FupDup, 09 April 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

Lets debate the merits of ECM when im the last mech left and im a cataput A1 with only streaks.

Lets debate the merits of using the english language when im a french speaking, colour blind, autist.

Lets debate the merits of internal combustion in a world with no fossil fuels left.

Yes you can invent a circumstance where anything is broken, it doesnt make for a good argument though. If you want i can go and get 8 people on teamspeak, leg the last member of the enemy team in conquest, uncap all the points and then go and hide for the remaining 10 minutes of the match. So you can cry legging is overpowered.

ecm is not the topic at hand, straw man your heart out though.
oh french, straw man.

so you cant. Thanks for admitting that

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 09 April 2013 - 02:01 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 09 April 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

love when ppl bring real life physics in to explain a game where the handwavium structure can support a 100 ton bipedal war machine

That was absolutely my point.....not to mention this is 100,000kg running around at 35mph taking fire lol

[FupDup]

Yokaiko, on 09 April 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

Way higher, the velocity side is first [(150*1000)/3600]^2 now multiply that times 35000, just for the jenner.

Don't you have to take 1/2 of the mass, or is it 1/2 of the product of the velocity side and mass? (I assumed the former, that might be my issue).