252 replies to this topic

[hammerreborn]

Yokaiko, on 09 April 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Funny part was all they had to do is back up.

Then again, you were also picking on low hanging fruit if you had time to bowl someone from full speed in a Jenner without an enemy blasting the **** out of you.

A jenner on the ground made for a drop everything moment.

Netcode was broken, it's not like anyone could hit me at full speed. And how does backing up stop me from hitting you at 150kph? In that atlas going 30 backwards. Ya...great plan there sparky.

And it doesn't matter if I got blown up, your guy got blown up too. I sacrificed a pawn for your king. Without firing a damn shot.

[Yokaiko]

hammerreborn, on 09 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Netcode was broken, it's not like anyone could hit me at full speed. And how does backing up stop me from hitting you at 150kph? In that atlas going 30 backwards. Ya...great plan there sparky.

And it doesn't matter if I got blown up, your guy got blown up too. I sacrificed a pawn for your king. Without firing a damn shot.

Like I said low hanging fruit.

A mech getting tackled in the middle of his team wasn't really in much danger.

A mech getting tackled in the middle of the enemy had an issue. So like I said low hanging fruit, or tactics. You've proved nothing.

[Daggett]

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

It seems to me that people have either forgotten about PGI's promise to replace collisions 'as soon as they are working properly' or have just given up on complaining about it in lieu of ecm/team drops/community warfare/stability issues. Well this just wont do in my opinion as collisions are the #1 thing that I'm currently pissed off about in mwo. So denizens of the mwo forums i ask you to remind PGI that 'after launch' is not an acceptable time to return collisions

People have not forgotten, most are just patient and know that such a complex issue takes it's while.
Therefore ANY time PGI tells us is acceptable, even if they say 'never'. We can 'demand' things all day long, but the devs finally decide what and when to implement. If one does not like the overall way pgi is going, then he is always free to leave.

BTW, collisions have been the Nr.1 thing I was pissed off about when i started playing this game.
All that warping where you don't know where to shoot at and the constant FF knockdows at LOW speed was horrible. Additionally the camera sucked bad, destroying all immersion.
In many matches it felt that i was lying down more than i was standing which totally killed the game-flow. This almost made me quit the game, and i'm quite sure that i was not alone. PGi realized this and therefore removed the bugged collisions.

I would love to see collisions back as most of us do including the devs. But to be honest this is by far not that high of a priority and that's why so few people are 'up in arms' currently.

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

1) "after launch" doesn't actually mean anything, especially given PGIs track record with deadlines and promises.

Personally i'm already satisfied that the devs want to bring it back and don't want to leave it dead. I can totally wait a very long time for that to happen...

Edit: And what you see as promises (e.g. the dreaded 3rd person view), i see as a noncommital declaration of intention.
The development of a game takes a LOT of time and some things which were 'promised' several months or even years ago can happen to not stand the test of time. Therefore i would never nail them down to things they said several months ago as long as the devs reason their change in mind.

That being said if the devs would tell us "We can't do collisions BECAUSE X" (and X is not utterly stupid), it would be sad, but acceptable for me.

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

2) Collisions will undoubtedly be broken as **** when they are reintroduced; just like everything else is when PGI adds it to the game and the game no longer being in "beta" will hinder fixing them.

I disagree. Especially when they can't excuse mistakes with "We are still beta" they have to think more carefully of the consequences when adding a feature. They need to pay their bills with the game, therefore they have an urgent need to fix any serious broken things that influence sales.

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

3) Collisions were working fine in closed beta apart from the cosmetic issue of mechs teleporting around during the knockdown/get back up animation. Mechanics wise they were perfectly fine and the game is much worse off without them.

As stated above and proven by the fact of their removal, collisions never worked fine and teleporting together with the high sensitivity have been a major issue for many players including me.

Edited by Daggett, 09 April 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Collisions should be back sooner.

[Chavette]

They got a nice, half year delay from: "From about the same time the highlander comes out" to "After launch".

My eyes grew to the size of oranges when I read that.

[hammerreborn]

Yokaiko, on 09 April 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Like I said low hanging fruit.

A mech getting tackled in the middle of his team wasn't really in much danger.

A mech getting tackled in the middle of the enemy had an issue. So like I said low hanging fruit, or tactics. You've proved nothing.

WTF are you smoking? Are you seriously arguing that at no point in any match that you are not within firing distance of my team? Because if you were your *** got knocked down and shot. There was no tactics, it was shoot the knockdown mech, knock down another mech, repeat.

[Yokaiko]

hammerreborn, on 09 April 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

WTF are you smoking? Are you seriously arguing that at no point in any match that you are not within firing distance of my team? Because if you were your *** got knocked down and shot. There was no tactics, it was shoot the knockdown mech, knock down another mech, repeat.

What game were you playing.

I said that a mech that got knocked down IN THE MIDDLE OF HIS TEAM had little to worry about (jenners excluded) usually you would survive, even in a medium if you had 4-5 friendlies around. Everyone couldn't turn and focus you because they were busy.

Now if you were all by yourself, well, it didn't pay to be off by yourself if you weren't in a light.

[Megalosauroid]

Daggett, on 09 April 2013 - 11:22 AM, said:

]As stated above and proven by the fact of their removal, collisions never worked fine and teleporting together with the high sensitivity have been a major issue for many players including me.

Firstly i'd like to say thankyou for you well typed and formatted response that actually addressed the OP and that i feel kind of bad for responding with the following:

Since every issue that has ever aggravated me has been replied to on the forums with "learn to play" i think its high time that it was my turn to say it. So i will. If you cant deal with collisions you need to learn to play, simple as that. Ive never had a problem with being repeatedly knocked down and the fact that the lions share of people who had regular problems with it are new payers as said by you supports my argument.

Edited by Megalosauroid, 09 April 2013 - 11:30 AM.

[Phoenix Gray]

Mack1, on 09 April 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

cough Devs run lights cough

PGI! Pay the Devs more so they can afford to run assaults and heavies, THEN they'll fix collisions!

Or make them all run 3C's and we'll get MG's that can core a Stalker CT....

[Yokaiko]

Phoenix Gray, on 09 April 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

PGI! Pay the Devs more so they can afford to run assaults and heavies, THEN they'll fix collisions!

Or make them all run 3C's and we'll get MG's that can core a Stalker CT....

Go look at dev screenies with a couple billion C-bills on the account.

[Caleb Lee]

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

3) Collisions were working fine in closed beta apart from the cosmetic issue of mechs teleporting around during the knockdown/get back up animation. Mechanics wise they were perfectly fine and the game is much worse off without them.

Apparently you weren't there... let me rehash a few of the issues:

1) Server/Client Side Placement - When a mech was knocked down on the ground, whole teams could fire into them and do minimal to 0 damage. If you were lucky, it would shift the mech like 8 feet to the side and then you'd be able to shoot it.

2) Barely clipping a mech caused knockdown - just a slight clip or nudge could topple a mech depending on variant and tonnage. It should be a pretty hefty collision between similar tonnage mechs, and less momentum required the bigger the disparity.

3) Dragon bowling - while fun the first time or two, was a really lame exploit/bug. The fact that the mech barely had to nudge you when you were in a heavier mech to put you on your butt, back up a few steps and then shoot you in the face well...


In a nutshell:

1) They will implement it.
2) It will be better than the first time around as it had major issues despite your limited pov (see points above).
3) It's not the same priority as major game breakers like ECM, HUD bugs, and many more issues. It's not even in the game to 'cause a problem', it's only a childish mentality of "I WANT MY COOKIES NOW" and "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME" that's the problem here.

[Kristov Kerensky]

I can wait for them to get collisions working properly, which by the way, means a BIT more then 'not warping when standing back up'...

Like Hammer, I was bowling over everything with my Jenner, except Dragons..which I was able to drop on occasion with a little luck and proper JJ timing. I took 1 damage from those collisions, which was so fubar it's not funny.

Guess what..that is NOT how collisions should work. A Jenner hitting an Atlas at over 150kph should NOT knock the Atlas down and do 1 damage to the Jenner, especially if the Jenner hits the Atlas in the LEGS. It should leave a rather obvious mark on the Atlas' legs AND rip the Jenner apart pretty badly. Ramming in TT was an acceptable practice, but it was a suicide move in a Light Mech against anything larger. Even DFA was a hail mary type of move in a Light, because even if you did it RIGHT and killed the target, you ended up on your back and often lost a leg in the process.

A Jenner hitting an Atlas at those speeds should be like a VW Bug hitting a Mack truck, yeah it's liable to hurt the Mack a bit....but the Bug is toast and the last thing going through the mind of the driver is the engine of the Bug. THAT is part of the issue that PGI is having to get working right, actual damage from collisions based on speed and tonnage of BOTH parties, along with the netcode issues that such collisions impart to the system.

This isn't a simple mod like MWLL was, there's no switch to change for the collisions, it's a lot more complicated and involves both the core physics engine AND the netcode, which in case you missed it, PGI is having to totally replace due to CryTek's fubar client based netcode that's part of the actual game engine.

[Megalosauroid]

Caleb Lee, on 09 April 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

Apparently you weren't there... let me rehash a few of the issues:

1) Server/Client Side Placement - When a mech was knocked down on the ground, whole teams could fire into them and do minimal to 0 damage. If you were lucky, it would shift the mech like 8 feet to the side and then you'd be able to shoot it.

2) Barely clipping a mech caused knockdown - just a slight clip or nudge could topple a mech depending on variant and tonnage. It should be a pretty hefty collision between similar tonnage mechs, and less momentum required the bigger the disparity.

3) Dragon bowling - while fun the first time or two, was a really lame exploit/bug. The fact that the mech barely had to nudge you when you were in a heavier mech to put you on your butt, back up a few steps and then shoot you in the face well...


In a nutshell:

1) They will implement it.
2) It will be better than the first time around as it had major issues despite your limited pov (see points above).
3) It's not the same priority as major game breakers like ECM, HUD bugs, and many more issues. It's not even in the game to 'cause a problem', it's only a childish mentality of "I WANT MY COOKIES NOW" and "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME" that's the problem here.

I was there and i never had any problems with it, the problems you listed should have been responded to with a tweak over the coarse if a couple of patches not removing collisions from the game for 10+ MONTHS if PGI were consistant at all with how they handle things.

Its not a case of "I WANT MY COOKIES NOW" its a case of "lets remind PGI that we havnt forgotten about collisions so they cant quietly sweep it under the rug" since i havnt seen a thread about collisions in quite a long time now.



"3) It's not the same priority as major game breakers like ECM, HUD bugs, and many more issues."

wait.. i thought PGI were happy with ECM as is, and what exactly are they doing to address HUD bugs again? ohh yeah, actively making them worse! Thats definitely a better usage of dev time than fixing a fun aspect of the core game that was removed 'temporally' ******* ages ago.

[MustrumRidcully]

The old collision system was so bad I just don't miss it. I also don't think it was a good mechanism to "balance lights", which is what some want it to do.

I don't mind it coming back, but only working well and reasonably. I don't want to see teleporting mechs ever again, and I also think it was way to easy for mechs to be knocked over.

[Yokaiko]

MustrumRidcully, on 09 April 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

I don't want to see teleporting mechs ever again,

That is funny I still see it daily.

[Megalosauroid]

Yokaiko, on 09 April 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

That is funny I still see it daily.

Thats a feature though, not a glitch.

[Sean von Steinike]

Kind of depressing it will take so long to get them back in.

[hammerreborn]

MustrumRidcully, on 09 April 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

The old collision system was so bad I just don't miss it. I also don't think it was a good mechanism to "balance lights", which is what some want it to do.

I don't mind it coming back, but only working well and reasonably. I don't want to see teleporting mechs ever again, and I also think it was way to easy for mechs to be knocked over.

Except it doesn't balance lights, which is the argument I understand the least. The old method made lights even stronger, because we could take out anything sans a dragon without firing a shot.

Now we have to dodge bullets and lasers that can actually hit us and go through tons and tons of armor to do what we could do by slamming the space bar into someone back.

[Megalosauroid]

Buddahcjcc, on 09 April 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

yeah... working fine lol

and THIS is why we wont see it back any time soon. Abuse.
Paul cant be embarassed in his own game like that. Ity cant be allowed

Megalosauroid, on 09 April 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

That thing can only happen when you're for whatever reason on your own versus 3 or 4 of the other sides mechs though, if they hadn't been greifing they would have just killed him in short order and then moved on. So really its a non issue if you use team play (which you should).

[Megalosauroid]

Buddahcjcc, on 09 April 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

They WERE using team play. How else do you think they were team griefing Paul for two minutes straight when he was the last guy on his side?

Paul wasnt though, so what the core issue here is is that team play > lone wolf. What exactly did that have to do with collisions really? and how did removing collisions address that?