95 replies to this topic

[Viper69]

I like how most of you assume, the cautious people are old and the impetuous brash and hasty people are young. Age does not guarantee wisdom just as much as being young does not make you impatient. How about instead of waiting to die to tell people how bad their tactic was, try to chat it up while moving. If you see a guy skylining, dont wait till he dies to say "Boy that was stupid" and vice versa. If your team loses its because the team failed as a unit, not one bad decision.

Edited by Viper69, 10 April 2013 - 05:17 AM.

[DeadlyNerd]

I refuse to charge into the enemy with my hunchback unless one of our assaults is doing it.

[Ezazel]

Worst team mate after team killer is an adhd pilot who runs head first into enemy and dies right away.

[Joseph Mallan]

I don't tell people how to play the game. I just poke those who do (Armchair Generals). You hunker down while the shat flies then move. Now if you are in PUGs as I have been a lot lately how does Lancemate Alpha know when to charge? I have died a few hundred times by being the first over the hill to find out the team went back to kill the scout on base. Run of to provide back up to the lone stalker fighting 3-4 enemy Mechs.

Advancing intelligently usually includes someone taking charge, giving the order, and everyone moving as one. If that someone hasn't stepped up in game, you get what you have been getting. Everyone waiting till they think its time to jump into the thick of it. Me I usually have to be told to form back up cause I get all into hunting.

If you are trying to start some intelligent play, I'll be looking for you to be in Yellow if we are on teams together.

[Aym]

GHQCommander, on 10 April 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

I think 3 out of 5 matches I play, my team or both teams are scared or something. I hoped MechWarrior Online would attract the type of player who can think fast but I'm sensing a lot of old timers behind the keyboard, really taking their time and really worried about losing a mech for a few minutes.

For me its ruining the game because I'm the guy who takes the enemy on hard. I move fast and I think fast. Strategy includes moving fast and attacking. Yet I constantly see teams holding back on a terrain line.

Like the match I just played, my entire team stopped advancing on to the high ground. Where we could have sat taking shots at the other teams heads as they pop out. The other teams weapons wouldn't hit us so frequently because they are behind cover. DOH. It's a sound tactic yet my hid behind a ridge and the other team hid behind a ridge.

WTF?!

Please consider your entire teams movement in this game. Do not huddle together behind a rock or a ridge. Your weapons arc needs to be clear if you want to hit and you need to be able to see your target. Common sense. There is no point ***** footing around as if you can win by doing nothing but keeping out of the way.

Is this...



If not, it's much easier to shoot targets on a ridge because you can see them the whole time, relay information to your team mates. If the enemy is behind cover you won't know where they'll pop up. Advantage is NOT the high ground in this combat.

[Enigmos]

Thundercles, on 10 April 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

...
Terrain advantage means nothing if you don't press forward when the opportunity presents itself. I can't speak to the more organized teams, I'm mostly PUG-ing it right now, but the playerbase I run into is exceptionally timid. When I meet an aggressive team that's willing to take a little fire in exchange for savaging an enemy formation, those are the 8-0, or 8-2 games - aggressive team winning.

So I get your drift. But tell me: where in that is the OP's 'Old Timers' diss?
WTF am I to make of that degree of stupidity?

[Grayseven]

I've been getting my last Atlas the xp I need to finish up Elite and I keep running into the same problem where I join in an advance only to have my "buddies" all turn tail and run the first time their paint gets scratched leaving my big slow Fatlas hanging in the breeze.

Atlas' don't retreat well so I end up finding the nastiest enemy mech in sight and blasting away until I'm blown to bits by focused fire. If I'm lucky I take one with me, if I'm not I at least put a few hundred points of damage on it for the next lucky joe to finish off.

But it's PUGs...I have to expect it. I make sure to let them know that they screwed up and how just in case one or two of them actually listen and support their assault mechs next match, but I know it'll happen many, many more times...

[Khanublikhan]

You have to communicate with other players at the end of the day, as other posters above have stated.

I have had some success warning players to 'hold' when I see one player walking ahead, about to crest a hill and walk into an Atlas, I can track but they seem oblivious to.

It seems to have become the norm to quickly type 'rtb' or 'rtb lights' when a cap is taking place.

I have also had some success simply stating 'push' when the side I am on has several kills (a numerical advantage) over the opposition.

[MeiSooHaityu]

OP, you need to understand that what you described (sniping) is often a very good tactic. What I noticed is often a match is a bit of a waiting game. You get your long range shots in, wait to see if you can draw a couple of them out. Once you get the advantage in numbers, you make a rush and press that advantage.

Many matches where we just charge, we are decimated. The enemy uses their cover and normally the lead mechs get focused fired on and then you are down on numbers. It normally spells doom for the match.

I know you might want more immediate action, but this is a game of cat and mouse. Waiting for an enemy to make a mistake and pressing that advantage.

As I see it, this game is less of a sprint and more of a marathon.

[Thundercles]

OriginalTibs, on 10 April 2013 - 05:34 AM, said:

So I get your drift. But tell me: where in that is the OP's 'Old Timers' diss?
WTF am I to make of that degree of stupidity?

I pretty much ignored it as irrelevant. I'm an older gamer myself, and the group I played with back in CB was about my age and they'd string you up by your internals if you so much as took your eye off them for a second. I only chose to address the part about being overly timid.

Do I advocate suicide charges? Nope. Fortune favors the bold, though.

EDIT: Having gone back and looking at the 'old timers' comment, I don't think it's meant to indicate poor gaming or tactical sense. I think "old timers" refers to people who've been involved with Battletech for a while, and who've soaked up the mentality (reflected in-fiction) that losing with an intact mech is better for you, personally, than winning with a wrecked one. It tends to color 'caution to stay alive long enough to be an asset to the team' towards 'stay alive at all costs'.

Plus, until there's some weight or BV type of restrictions, heavy/assault alpha builds are going to rule the roost. Once there's less of a chance of losing an entire piece of your mech in one good shot, it should open the game up to a more varied approach as well.

That's how I read it, anyway. I could be wrong, of course.

Edited by Thundercles, 10 April 2013 - 05:52 AM.

[Ronious]

The only thing I could hear was the OP sitting in the back seat ranting, "....are we there yet?". I swear, if you make me come back there.

[OneEyed Jack]

MeiSooHaityu, on 10 April 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

OP, you need to understand that what you described (sniping) is often a very good tactic.

You didn't read what he wrote or completely misunderstood it if you think he was describing sniping.

It's also a very bad tactic the way far too many people do it. Sniping can be great if the player is a very good shot, so they can put multiple shots into the same location at range, and if they're willing to be exposed to occasional return fire to get a good vantage point. Too many people, however, try to do it because it's a "safe" way to play. They spend more time nudging in and out of cover waiting for a chance to take a shot while no one is looking than they do ever shooting at anyone. Or they just can't shoot for **** and refuse to acknowledge it. If you can't place those shots like I described above, and do it numerous times throughout the match, you should find a better build/tactic for your skillset.

[Salis777]

OneEyed Jack, on 10 April 2013 - 06:05 AM, said:

You didn't read what he wrote or completely misunderstood it if you think he was describing sniping.

It's also a very bad tactic the way far too many people do it. Sniping can be great if the player is a very good shot, so they can put multiple shots into the same location at range, and if they're willing to be exposed to occasional return fire to get a good vantage point. Too many people, however, try to do it because it's a "safe" way to play. They spend more time nudging in and out of cover waiting for a chance to take a shot while no one is looking than they do ever shooting at anyone. Or they just can't shoot for **** and refuse to acknowledge it. If you can't place those shots like I described above, and do it numerous times throughout the match, you should find a better build/tactic for your skillset.

Yeah, a lot of people just poptart leveling I guess. and ffs they have no idea what mouse accel is!

[Royalewithcheese]

Thems the breaks in pugs, man. You stay with your pug blob, even if they're doing something that isn't optimal for your config to join in. IMO there are very few matches where brawlers don't get the chance to shine eventually if you're patient enough.

[Enigmos]

Te skill I am seeing, especially with regard to aiming, has generally improved to the point where sniping is no longer at all a 'safer' tactic. It is hazardous in its own right. Many of the pilots we generallly include as 'PUGs' have improved greatly in their tactics and situational awareness.

There are of course far too many exceptions, but the quality of the competition is greatly improved. There is increased synergy among those not using voice comms.

But there are those who hang back and let others weaken the OpFor before moving forward. Too often they wait too long and allow half their force to wither completely away under focused fire before committing, and by then there is nobody left to help share the damage and add firepower to the counteroffense. Too much patience is as futile as pulling a LeeRoy. It takes experience to gain that critical sense of timing, and coordinated timing and maneuver is probably the greatest remaining advantage of the team sharing a voice channel.

I totally understand the young pilot's sense of frustration. I think he or she should consider that it is as erroneous to blame 'old timers' as it would be for me to blame 'kids'. Combat does not respect seniority either way.

However one key element taught by experience is that a patient ready defense is a force multiplyer when the offensively-minded overexpose piecemeal. If part of your force is slow to advance you are better off sharing their foxhole than dying in a smoldering heap of glory.

Fight together or die alone.

[Klaus]

Seriously, I am agreeing with the OP here.

I can understand the thought going through your head of "Oh well that guy's dead! LOL" when you see someone rush in alone.

But really, you need to back up your team. I'm not asking everyone to run in and kill themselves with me but a little covering fire would be nice. Worst case scenario they die but you did a little damage. That could be what determines the whole game if it comes down to it. They're going to focus them before they focus you, so what are you so scared of?



Going into this I knew this Jager behind me had two AC/20s. That's the only reason I got so far ahead. Yeah I got out alive, killing a Highlander and a Cataphract, but with absolutely no help from this guy.

So why didn't he engage? Does anyone know?

Is he scared? Is he just bad? Did he go afk?

He probably was just looking to KS me.

Either way, I am sick of people playing like this. It's like you don't have a team when people play so selfishly.

Edited by Klaus, 10 April 2013 - 06:26 AM.

[Kommisar]

I'm an old timer.

Been in a lot of fights. Virtual and real.

Couple of things I have figured out:

• Given most people enough time and they will screw it up.
  
• Having energy (or in this case, armor and ammo) at the end of a fight wins more than wild swings early on
  
• Veterans of real wars are smart, dangerous people. The slow and brash got killed off; along with the unlucky.
  
• Video games allow the brash to keep being brash.

Now, I personally know some real, blood and mud, snake-eaters that would take offense at the suggestion that they are cowards because they enjoy using such useless things as "cover", "tactics", and "the common sense that God gave ******** raccoon". But, this is a video game, not real life.


Thing is, a whole lot of us "old timers", we enjoy using those things in our gaming. We like the simulation aspect; largely because we don't really care about maximizing our CBill output per hour. Most of us would rather have one, good match that goes one for well over the duration your attention span than to cram as many screaming, straight up the middle rushes into any given hour while we watch "Teen Mom 2" on MTV. We would rather have a nice battle of maneuver and wits, than decide the entire match on one-roll of the dice rush into the enemy.

Where you see "cowards" (an accusation I find amusing in a video game environment) hiding, a more refined and mature mind may (not always, sometimes, your team really is made of fail) see so much more. They may see interlocking lanes of fire being set up. Or an ambush. An effort to choose the better terrain. Or just a willingness to sit back for a minute and wait for someone like you to come running out so we can thin the herd a bit before the real fight.

Because that is what you are to us. Through our eyes, you're the ADD kiddie that puts our team down one by throwing away your mech just so you can disconnect, collect your minimum CBill and go farm another match. Leaving my unit and I to carry your lack of effort.

Oh, and because I think I do actually remember your name from a match or two I have played in, I shall offer this golden nugget of advice:

Most Assault mechs can only move at about 60 kph, or slower. When you get a klick ahead and decide to plow into their assault mechs; simple math should tell you, you are on your own.

-----------------------------------------------

"Worst case scenario they die but you did a little damage. That could be what determines the whole game."

Actually, that is not the worst case scenario. Worst case scenario there, which is quite common, is that the team rushes in to support the brash, young hero, cannot get enough firepower forward fast enough to make any difference, and then finds themselves strung out, isolated, and flanked by a team that is still mostly together and looking for the next easy kill.

Edited by Kommisar, 10 April 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Mercules]

Thundercles, on 10 April 2013 - 04:29 AM, said:

Example: A game on Alpine.
Typical drop, multiple assaults and heavies... me in a Treb, and a pair of lights - commandos, I think. Pretty standard axis of attack/defense - enemy team coming for us across the bowl in the middle, using 'their' ridgeline as cover while our team uses the antennae hill. The commandos loop south and tag the enemy base to disrupt, half the enemy force peels off, and the lights call for the charge on those left behind. What happens? Our mechs pull back and hunker down, refusing to press the advantage and preferring the 'safe' bet of plinking away, squandering the opportunity. They patiently waited until the enemy finished off the commandos (and me, silly as I was, trying to stick to the only plan presented) and regrouped, THEN charged into the open in the face of an almost full team of guns.

How long ago was that? I had that exact experience but I was one of the two Commandos that pulled half the enemy team back to hunt us, hung around to ensure they were far from the main combat, got killed because we took too much damage from a couple of them and didn't get the enemy lights drawn off to a point where we could fight them without their support, and then switched over to see most of our team sitting behind a ridge being held off by a couple mechs sniping them. I mean we would announce to push once we were sure there were mechs coming for us, but only got that about half the time.

[Metallis]

ElliottTarson, on 10 April 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

Often times if it seems as though people are just milling waiting for something to happen, i'll purposely charge in and drag the enemy back into what turns into a makeshift ambush.  Your teams just sitting around?  Make something happen.

</p>This comment above is so true I had to acknowledge it. People complain PUGs suck all the time. But PUGs only fail if there is no communication and cooperation. I see people asking all the time, "What's the plan?" Sometimes they get an answer, sometimes they don't. When I PUG, (and I PUG a lot) whether it be an assault or conquest mission I will tell the group at the start what my intentions are or what my 2-4 man team is going to do. I am a light pilot so that means I am doing cap pulls to separate enemy forces. I tell my group soon as you hear me cap the base to move forward as one unit and pick off with focus fire those that do not come after me. It also helps me if they move up closer I have a chance to survive the group coming after me. But if you don't want to take the lead them be a good follower and support the people hanging back. It might be boring but if that is the plan, then do it. PUGs can only succeed if people communicate (either text or chat comm) and cooperate.

Edited by Metallis, 10 April 2013 - 06:52 AM.

[Ghogiel]

How is it the OP has an issue with people not ramboing enough... in PUGs?

Can I my PUGs for yours?