95 replies to this topic

[Klaus]

Kommisar, on 10 April 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Having energy (or in this case, armor and ammo) at the end of a fight wins more than wild swings early on

So when everyone on your team dies you're going to be in the back with full everything and kill 8 enemies? The game doesn't work like that, sorry.

They're going to kill everyone else and then they're going to kill you because you didn't want to help.

Even if you're with 3 other people it's not going to turn into a win. It's a simple waste of resources.

Kommisar, on 10 April 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

We like the simulation aspect; largely because we don't really care about maximizing our CBill output per hour.

I could care less about C-bills or else I wouldn't be throwing away 50k on coolant every game. I have enough money to buy 2 of every mech in the dang game on top of what I already own! It's not about C-bills, it's about winning the game.

When you let your teammate die and don't take advantage of them drawing fire you're just wasting resources.

Kommisar, on 10 April 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

We would rather have a nice battle of maneuver and wits, than decide the entire match on one-roll of the dice rush into the enemy.

I hardly find standing behind cover and waiting for the enemy's patience to run out having anything to do with maneuvers or wits. Most of the time that isn't even an option because you're out-ranged and taking sniper fire. Sometimes you literally have to force a close range brawl or else you're going to lose.

Kommisar, on 10 April 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Because that is what you are to us. Through our eyes, you're the ADD kiddie that puts our team down one by throwing away your mech just so you can disconnect, collect your minimum CBill and go farm another match. Leaving my unit and I to carry your lack of effort.

Oh, give me a break. This game isn't counterstrike where one person is good enough to go around headshotting everyone. When you don't take advantage of the opportunity to do damage you're dragging the team down just as much as they are.

Kommisar, on 10 April 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

"Worst case scenario they die but you did a little damage. That could be what determines the whole game."

Seriously you don't know how to quote someone? LOL.

Kommisar, on 10 April 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

Actually, that is not the worst case scenario. Worst case scenario there, which is quite common, is that the team rushes in to support the brash, young hero, cannot get enough firepower forward fast enough to make any difference, and then finds themselves strung out, isolated, and flanked by a team that is still mostly together and looking for the next easy kill.

Strung out? What? Does your mech's legs get tired?

I'm not saying to rush across the map after a light in your Atlas, but if someone is 300m away from you and you don't do anything you're just a big jerk.

Edited by Klaus, 10 April 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[Metallis]

Klaus, on 10 April 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

So when everyone on your team dies you're going to be in the back with full everything and kill 8 enemies? The game doesn't work like that, sorry.

They're going to kill everyone else and then they're going to kill you because you didn't want to help.

Even if you're with 3 other people it's not going to turn into a win. It's a simple waste of resources.


I could care less about C-bills or else I wouldn't be throwing away 50k on coolant every game. I have enough money to buy 2 of every mech in the dang game on top of what I already own! It's not about C-bills, it's about winning the game.

When you let your teammate die and don't take advantage of them drawing fire you're just wasting resources.


I hardly find standing behind cover and waiting for the enemy's patience to run out having anything to do with maneuvers or wits. Most of the time that isn't even an option because you're out-ranged and taking sniper fire. Sometimes you literally have to force a close range brawl or else you're going to lose.


Oh, give me a break. This game isn't counterstrike where one person is good enough to go around headshotting everyone. When you don't take advantage of the opportunity to do damage you're dragging the team down just as much as they are.


Seriously you don't know how to quote someone? LOL.


Strung out? What? Does your mech's legs get tired?

I'm not saying to rush across the map after a light in your Atlas, but if someone is 300m away from you and you don't do anything you're just a big jerk.

Preach brother preach!!!

[Viper69]

Last night was in a perfect group of pugs. We were on caldera and we were at the DZ near the oil field. We all pushed up the 3 line with my Atlas on disrupt behind the hills hiding our lights and mediums that bobbed up every now and then o take a look. They all moved at my max speed and when we finally started to fire I hung with them till I saw an opportunity to move to their flank and engage in close in fighting. Once we reached the spires we moved from cover to the side of the caldera and both our teams had a hell of a brawl. We ended up winning but it was close but not a word was said yet we all seemed to gel into a well organized team.

[Ghogiel]

Klaus, on 10 April 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

Strung out? What? Does your mech's legs get tired?

I'm not saying to rush across the map after a light in your Atlas, but if someone is 300m away from you and you don't do anything you're just a big jerk.

I'd rather be a jerk than dead.

300m can mean a lot. The difference of cover and no cover. Open to 6 PPC STKs and not.

Being in the open absorbing damage just to cover someone who is likely a scrub is usually a waste of 2 mechs instead of 1.

Some times you have to accept the situation and be prepared to cut the loss. Take advantage if you can yeah, peek over and **** face in the short time that baddie on your team gets pwnt.

[Klaus]

Ghogiel, on 10 April 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

I'd rather be a jerk than dead.

300m can mean a lot. The difference of cover and no cover. Open to 6 PPC STKs and not.

Being in the open absorbing damage just to cover someone who is likely a scrub is usually a waste of 2 mechs instead of 1.

Some times you have to accept the situation and be prepared to cut the loss. Take advantage if you can yeah, peek over and **** face in the short time that baddie on your team gets pwnt.

I'm posting this again because obviously you're not getting it. Keep in mind, the score is 1 to zip. My team has an advantage going into this and all I get is some lame LRMs.



That's probably you in the JM6-A.

There is absolutely no reason this person didn't help me.

Edited by Klaus, 10 April 2013 - 07:11 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Klaus, on 10 April 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

I'm posting this again because obviously you're not getting it.



That's probably you in the JM6-A.

There is absolutely no reason this person didn't help me.

I don't think you are getting it.

The guy behind you is the scrub. The same one who probably rambos.

[Kommisar]

If the engagement is 300 meters away? What conversation are you having in this thread? If you have an enemy target at 300 meters and I'm, say, with 200 meters; unless I am swarmed, overwhelmed, I'm going to be throwing in my shots into the target. That there is laser surgery distance for my lovely large lasers.

And if the team is in position to hammer a distracted enemy force, I'll lead that charge. I've lead that charge.

What I am not going to do is chase behind some loony Rambo-Jenkins as he charges off at top speed into the enemy just expecting the rest of his team to some how magically keep up with him. At 300 meters, the brawl has already started! I'm talking about some guy charging in when the rest of the unit and I are over 600 meters away from him and the loon someone expects our Assault mechs to back him up. Or a light pilot that has bought us time; when that 30 seconds he bought with his life wouldn't allow us enought time to move into effective range for ERPPCs because we were 2000 meters away on Alpine.

And, for the record, "Strung Out" means stretched thin. When you get your opponent to move carelessly and in such a way that they can no longer effectively support each other. At which point a non-strung out force can pick them apart piecemeal. Which is what happens when a force of mechs, all moving a different speeds, goes full throttle in an attempt to bail out some light mech 800 meters away that decided to brawl with 3 Atlases.

[Royalewithcheese]

I think the other thing to keep in mind here is the communication thing. If you run out of position to attack the other team, your team has no way of knowing that you know what you're doing and that supporting you would be a smart move. For all they know, they might be throwing good robots after bad to support you.

[Zen Hachetaki]

Viper69, on 10 April 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Last night was in a perfect group of pugs. We were on caldera and we were at the DZ near the oil field. We all pushed up the 3 line with my Atlas on disrupt behind the hills hiding our lights and mediums that bobbed up every now and then o take a look. They all moved at my max speed and when we finally started to fire I hung with them till I saw an opportunity to move to their flank and engage in close in fighting. Once we reached the spires we moved from cover to the side of the caldera and both our teams had a hell of a brawl. We ended up winning but it was close but not a word was said yet we all seemed to gel into a well organized team.

Think you were benefiting from some positive ELO there - I find it much better now with PUGs; rarely do I see DCs or suicides anymore. Rarely see trial mechs anymore - I have to assume that you are matched with people of similar ELO and as such they are better players? That's what I tell myself at least...

[Klaus]

Ghogiel, on 10 April 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

I don't think you are getting it.

The guy behind you is the scrub. The same one who probably rambos.

The same one who rambos?

If he rambos why isn't he helping me now?

That doesn't even make sense.

[Mechteric]

Klaus, on 10 April 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

There is absolutely no reason this person didn't help me.

There is one reason I can think of, they were a terrible player. No point in getting in a fuss about it, just gotta suck it up and know there's plenty of times where that person or someone like them will be the one under your crosshairs.

[Ghogiel]

Klaus, on 10 April 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

The same one who rambos?

If he rambos why isn't he helping me now?

That doesn't even make sense.

Because he is a scrub.

[Joseph Mallan]

Klaus, on 10 April 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

There is absolutely no reason this person didn't help me.

Said person could have been experiencing 2,400 Ping. I know I can't do a thing when I have that kind of Ping rate. When he finally stepped out, he may have dropped back to a playable level.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 10 April 2013 - 07:21 AM.

[IceSerpent]

yashmack, on 10 April 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

exactly what is an "old timer" and how do you know they were the ones huddling behind the rock in your last match?

An "old timer" is a pilot experienced enough to know that Skylining Like It's Cool ™ is not conductive to their continued survival and therefore parking on high ground is not always a good idea.

[Klaus]

Kommisar, on 10 April 2013 - 07:10 AM, said:

And, for the record, "Strung Out" means stretched thin. When you get your opponent to move carelessly and in such a way that they can no longer effectively support each other. At which point a non-strung out force can pick them apart piecemeal. Which is what happens when a force of mechs, all moving a different speeds, goes full throttle in an attempt to bail out some light mech 800 meters away that decided to brawl with 3 Atlases.

If you're literally by yourself and die then no one is to blame but you. I'm not trying to argue different.

But I consistently am tanking damage every single game I'm in, no matter what mech I'm in. I hear people crying that they're 'messed up' when they have red armor. Nearly every game that's a rough one I'm almost cored and/or missing arms.

I've seen games 4 to zip and people still all the way in the back scared to go in with not a single scratch on their mech.

It's brought on by a lack of communication along with doubt in your teammates abilities, and it causes defeats that didn't need to happen.

CapperDeluxe, on 10 April 2013 - 07:15 AM, said:

There is one reason I can think of, they were a terrible player. No point in getting in a fuss about it, just gotta suck it up and know there's plenty of times where that person or someone like them will be the one under your crosshairs.

What? That's what this whole thread is about if you didn't notice. TERRIBLE PLAYERS THAT DON'T ENGAGE WITH THE TEAM.

Joseph Mallan, on 10 April 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

Said person could have been experiencing 2,400 Ping. I know I can't do a thing when I have that kind of Ping rate. When he finally stepped out, he may have dropped back to a playable level.

Yeah sure. I see this happen so often it's sickening. It's even worse when they're in an Atlas.

Edited by Klaus, 10 April 2013 - 07:29 AM.

[Thundercles]

Mercules, on 10 April 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

How long ago was that? I had that exact experience but I was one of the two Commandos that pulled half the enemy team back to hunt us, hung around to ensure they were far from the main combat, got killed because we took too much damage from a couple of them and didn't get the enemy lights drawn off to a point where we could fight them without their support, and then switched over to see most of our team sitting behind a ridge being held off by a couple mechs sniping them. I mean we would announce to push once we were sure there were mechs coming for us, but only got that about half the time.

It was yesterday or the day before, I think. One of the commandos was pepsi-something or other, not sure about the other.

[Hedonism Robot]

If you have a decent ELO you can expect most of your games to follow the dominant winning strategy atm, which is loading on long range ballistic and PPC weaponry. The rule of thumb is the first person to start or initiate the fight usually gets blown to pieces and gets no points for the round. Players that care about winning will usually also care about kdr too. This has made players who play brawlers hide in the back (usually behind a rock), or they usually swap a brawler out for long range daka and ppcs. The ballistic weapons still hurt really bad close range too, so all you need to do is land one or two volleys before the fight starts and a pure brawler will still lose to you. If the enemy is within range of these builds they usually just start doing the sniper dmg poke game for 7 min till the game is over or a light caps the base.

To change this behavior you would need to readjust weapon balance. Right now the risk vs reward of playing a brawler is terrible, especially in pug matches. I still see decent brawler pushes in 8 mans but usually its followed by an all in strategy and well orchestrated. Even with that said 8 mans are still moving more and more toward heavy sniper play.

[Mercules]

Thundercles, on 10 April 2013 - 07:29 AM, said:

It was yesterday or the day before, I think. One of the commandos was pepsi-something or other, not sure about the other.

Okay, that wasn't myself of my friend. When he was leveling up Commandos we had the exact same experience though. Literally took 4 mechs out of combat leaving them 6 vrs 4 and our team didn't advance.

[Joseph Mallan]

Klaus, on 10 April 2013 - 07:28 AM, said:

If you're literally by yourself and die then no one is to blame but you. I'm not trying to argue different.

But I consistently am tanking damage every single game I'm in, no matter what mech I'm in. I hear people crying that they're 'messed up' when they have red armor. Nearly every game that's a rough one I'm almost cored and/or missing arms.

I've seen games 4 to zip and people still all the way in the back scared to go in with not a single scratch on their mech.

It's brought on by a lack of communication along with doubt in your teammates abilities, and it causes defeats that didn't need to happen.




What? That's what this whole thread is about if you didn't notice. TERRIBLE PLAYERS THAT DON'T ENGAGE WITH THE TEAM.




Yeah sure. I see this happen so often it's sickening. It's even worse when they're in an Atlas.

I see it less in my Atlas than say my Centurion (300XL) or faster Mechs. But man it is disjointing when you get cross hairs on an enemy then you are 4 grids away. Then Back. Then 3 grids in the opposite direction. Until you stop dead in place.

[Thundercles]

Hedonism Robot, on 10 April 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

To change this behavior you would need to readjust weapon balance. Right now the risk vs reward of playing a brawler is terrible, especially in pug matches. I still see decent brawler pushes in 8 mans but usually its followed by an all in strategy and well orchestrated. Even with that said 8 mans are still moving more and more toward heavy sniper play.

I'm really curious as to how Tonnage/BV limits on teams would interact with this. At light/medium tonnages, the lighter weapons get more play, and the 'problem' weapons aren't boatable. Heavies and Assaults can still pack their crazy punch, but honestly... they're supposed to. The problem comes up, in my eyes, when there are no limits and EVERYONE cashes in on that strategy. In the end, it might not curb this meta, but it would be interesting to see maybe 450-500 ton limits per team in action (number adjustable of course, just sort of an off-the-cuff # for the moment.)