74 replies to this topic

[stjobe]

KingCobra, on 10 April 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

You are right we have no PVE with AERO/Light tanks/infantry for the MG's to be really useful. Now we get into the real role of a light mech? Light mechs are #1Scouts #2 harasser mechs to distract a opponent so larger mechs could take them out. Lights were only single combatants when they were placed in that situation against other lights or bigger mechs. There objective never was to be a solo fighting mech but a group orientated mech.

Bovine manure.

Quote

All 'Mechs weighing from 20 up to 35 tons are classified as "light". Their skeleton can only carry limited armor, but the higher efficiency of smaller fusion reactors means that light 'Mechs benefit from superior mobility. They are typically fast but lightly armed and armored. These 'Mechs are generally used as scout 'Mechs and anti-personnel units instead of frontline combat duty, but some are designated combat 'Mechs with relatively heavy armament. Their low production cost, high proliferation, and relatively good supply of spare parts meant that they saw widespread use throughout history in virtually any role.

Famous light scout 'Mechs include the Locust, Stinger, and Wasp, while the Commando, Jenner, and Panther are powerful combat units for their size

source: sarna.net

Edited by stjobe, 10 April 2013 - 09:04 AM.

[Conraire]

"The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers, while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs."

Thats straight from the battletech Wiki.

The Machine guns in BT are classed as 20mm gatling guns or vulcan cannons. Therefore slightly smaller than the main gun on the A10 Thunderbolt(aka Warthog). To put this in perspective, the M2 Browning (ma deuce) fires .50BMG (12.7x99mm) Rounds. Modern rounds can penetrate about 1.3inches of hardened armor at 500m, this is from a gun that weighs about 60kg. Lets not get into the fact that many of the AP rounds are incendiary.

The MG's in BT/MW would be equivalent to the m61a1 Vulcan or GAU-4. Though, the real world guns are much lighter, weighing in at 92kg without the feed system. It's one of the main machine guns on the f-22 Raptor, and the AC130 Spectre gunships prior to 2000. These fire 20x102mm API or HEI bullets. I'd imagine that by some time in the late 3000s we'd be firing all APHEI bullets out of said gun types. Which is why many people get irritated with the uselessness of MG's, especially at close ranges. Considering real world, many equal guns are fairly good at armor piercing out to 500-1000m.

And to correct someone up higher. 1kg=2.2lbs. So 1 metric ton 1000kg=2200lbs or very close to it.

[KingCobra]

stjobe, on 10 April 2013 - 09:04 AM, said:

Bovine manure.

source: sarna.net

I never said lights were not combat mechs I stated there typical roles in battles. Im sure you would not want to be crazy enough to fight a highlander in your Jenner solo without heavier support mechs. MWO hampers medium-Heavies-assaults turning rates and forward to reverse accelerations so light mechs have a better chance of a kill. Plus the fact we don't have a short range 360 degree radar as we should.----->Radar link-> http://wiki.mechlivi...php?title=Radar

Edited by KingCobra, 10 April 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[hammerreborn]

tenderloving, on 10 April 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

Most people have the cognitive ability to insert the understood "in a competitive manner" into the phrase "you can't kill anything." Nobody is actually arguing that it's physically impossible to get a kill with an MG. It's been proven that you can, but it takes a long time and every other weapon does it better.

Why whould a weapon exist where it is never a viable competitive choice?

Half the weapons in the game aren't "competitive" by that definition. LBX, AC/10, ac/2, small laser, small pulse, any LRMs, SRMs that aren't 6s or streaks.

Should all those weapons not exist either?

Edited by hammerreborn, 10 April 2013 - 09:24 AM.

[Roland]

hammerreborn, on 10 April 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

I've killed people using only narcs, flamers, and mgs in a founders catapult, I think they can manage killing people in spiders. I know I can.

Ya, I killed a mech using a jenner carrying only 6 flares back in MW4.. doesn't mean that flares were useful weapons.

Damn if that mech wasn't funny as crap though.

[August55]

KingCobra, on 10 April 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

Lets put the record straight on machine guns and light ballistic weapons in MechWarrior. First Machine guns have always been for PVE in campaigns in the older MechWarrior games period. One or two machine guns have always been useless now there have been in the past mechs that have boated machine guns (Annihilator) 14-16 machine guns which tore the crap out of any mech under 150 meter range but totally useless over 150.The problem is ballistics are so heavy and Mektek tried to compensate for this with Light AC2- Light AC5 and a few other non cannon weapons for lights and it worked to a degree. The other option is 1 large AC10-AC20 or LBX10-20. AC2-5 are almost useless in lights because of low ammo count per ton and the weapons weight per ton. Below 16 machine gun annihilator 100tons------->

16 HMG Annihilator in MW4Mercs is hilarity, too bad you can't do it in MWO.

[Roland]

hammerreborn, on 10 April 2013 - 09:19 AM, said:

Half the weapons in the game aren't "competitive" by that definition. LBX, AC/20, ac/2, small laser, small pulse, any LRMs, SRMs that aren't 6s or streaks.

Should all those weapons not exist either?

Why is the AC20 in that list?

[hammerreborn]

Roland, on 10 April 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Why is the AC20 in that list?

Oops, supposed to be the 10.

[Deathlike]

Roland, on 10 April 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Why is the AC20 in that list?

Why is the SRM4 on that list?

[hammerreborn]

Deathlike, on 10 April 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

Why is the SRM4 on that list?

Because the only mech in the game that uses srm4s over 6s is the Jenner which isn't considered viable competitively because it doesn't carry ECM.

Every "competitive" mech with missile hardpoints uses a 6 or streaks.

[stjobe]

KingCobra, on 10 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

I never said lights were not combat mechs I stated there typical roles in battles.

'Mechs typically are designed to fit into one or several of these roles:
Scout
Skirmisher
Striker
Brawler
Sniper
Missile Boat
Juggernaut

Light 'mechs can fit into at least four of these roles; Scout, Skirmisher, Striker, and Sniper.

KingCobra, on 10 April 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Im sure you would not want to be crazy enough to fight a highlander in your Jenner solo without heavier support mechs. MWO hampers medium-Heavies-assaults turning rates and forward to reverse accelerations so light mechs have a better chance of a kill.

I'll give you some more choice quotes from the same page I linked above:

"assault 'Mechs are generally very slow. As such, they often require friendly units to protect them from being outmaneuvered".

"light 'Mechs benefit from superior mobility".

Light > Assault > Heavy > Medium > Light - it's like Rock, Paper, Scissors.

[KingCobra]

stjobe, on 10 April 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

'Mechs typically are designed to fit into one or several of these roles:
Scout
Skirmisher
Striker
Brawler
Sniper
Missile Boat
Juggernaut

Light 'mechs can fit into at least four of these roles; Scout, Skirmisher, Striker, and Sniper.


I'll give you some more choice quotes from the same page I linked above:

"assault 'Mechs are generally very slow. As such, they often require friendly units to protect them from being outmaneuvered".

"light 'Mechs benefit from superior mobility".

Light > Assault > Heavy > Medium > Light - it's like Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Now your getting into the realm of hypothetical thinking as in larger mechs would not have the advantage over a light period. I will link targeting systems just because assaults-heavies-mediums were slower does not mean there weapons and targeting system are.---------->>>>> http://www.sarna.net...geting_Computer

[Lugh]

You got your RL in my MW Fantasy....!!!!

[Purplefluffybunny]

What we need is one thread that as a sticky, contains a table listing every feature and its current 'state' in game. We won't get it mind, just like we will never get a fit for purpose search function for this forum; it is in purpose so that customers cannot easily find information that might put PGI in a bad light.

[AC]

KingCobra, on 10 April 2013 - 07:50 AM, said:

.The problem is ballistics are so heavy and Mektek tried to compensate for this with Light AC2- Light AC5 and a few other non cannon weapons for lights and it worked to a degree.

Ok, apparently you and I are not part of the same battletech universe. Light AC weapons are cannon.

Quote

The Light Autocannon was prototyped in the late 3050s, and introduced in 3068 by the Federated Suns^[2], but saw full-scale production only after the Word of Blake Jihad destroyed the New Avalon Institute of Science. The Light AC/5, as its name implies, is a smaller, lighter version of the Autocannon/5. While it does not have the range of its larger cousin, it does retain the ability to use the same special munitions.

[KingCobra]

Purplefluffybunny, on 10 April 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

What we need is one thread that as a sticky, contains a table listing every feature and its current 'state' in game. We won't get it mind, just like we will never get a fit for purpose search function for this forum; it is in purpose so that customers cannot easily find information that might put PGI in a bad light.

Please please this is my be nice to PGI day --------->

AC, on 10 April 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

Ok, apparently you and I are not part of the same battletech universe. Light AC weapons are cannon.

I also said--------> and a few other non cannon weapons for lights and it worked to a degree. so a 50/50% statement.

[IceSerpent]

hammerreborn, on 10 April 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

I've killed people using only narcs, flamers, and mgs in a founders catapult, I think they can manage killing people in spiders. I know I can.

Those mechs in testing grounds are not piloted by real people...just thought I'd let you know.

[Pinselborste]

every weapon is a cannon, but not every weapon is canon in the mechwarrior games of the past.

sorry, couldnt resist to say that

it doesnt matter how much we say about the need for more viable light ballistic weapons, pgi thinks mgs are fine so ballistic mechs under 65 will stay handicapped.

[Thuzel]

There are times when I read through threads like this and am almost convinced that at least half of the entire MWO player base must be trolls. Arguing reality in the BT world is as useful as throwing $#!^ at a ceiling fan. "But... But... My fyziks!!!"

This is a game. The mechanics should reflect that. If it's not fun or useful in the game, then it should be changed or removed.

If you want realism, go join the army and play there. Get off the game.

Edited by Thuzel, 10 April 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[KingCobra]

Thuzel, on 10 April 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

There are times when I read through threads like this and am almost convinced that at least half of the entire MWO player base must be trolls. Arguing reality in the BT world is as useful as throwing $#!^ at a ceiling fan. "But... But... My fyziks!!!"

This is a game. The mechanics should reflect that. If it's not fun or useful in the game, then it should be changed or removed.

If you want realism, go join the army and play there. Get off the game.

We are and guess what you have just become everyone #1 target today --------->>>>>>>