191 replies to this topic

[Juree Riggd]

Particle Man, on 12 April 2013 - 11:08 PM, said:

I'm a little late to this party, but there are actual issues and things that need to be fixed. you should be focusing on those things, not imaginary non-problems like alpha strikes, which are part of the game and universe since before a lot of people here were even born.

This.

[Brilig]

Juree Riggd, on 12 April 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

You can't remove pinpoint accuracy without removing the shooter elements.

Not trying to nerf pinpoint accuracy. You can keep the weapons having pinpoint accuracy, you just need to nerf convergence. A couple of us have suggested something like this. EDIT: Actually looking back I can see where this was getting confusing. So I will clarify here. Each weapon having pinpoint accuracy(knowing where it will hit everytime.) is not an issue. Alpha striking is not an issue. Being able to hit the same spot with multiple weapons at once is what we are worried about.

Brilig, on 29 March 2013 - 02:26 AM, said:

Change the cross hair system around. You can keep things skill based, and avoid pinpoint damage issues from heavy alpha strikes.

For instance here is what the Hunchback 4Ps cross hairs could look like.

That would keep the weapons from being pinpoint, without the random number generator frustration. Each torso based weapon or weapon grouping could have its own cross hair. Nothing too extreme, but enough to spread the damage around. People can keep alpha boats, but they aren't quite as devastating.

EDIT:What I should have said in the above example is pinpoint alpha boat issues. Instead of just pinpoint.

Actually Zyllos has an excellent post about this with some more in depth data.(And better pictures.)http://mwomercs.com/...38#entry2115438

Juree Riggd, on 12 April 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

Again, it's the year 3050, these are highly armed giant robots, you don't think that there isn't a system to aim the weapons to at least converge on the target redicule?

Doesn't matter this is a video game, and convergence is a flaw in the gameplay. Referring to my example above, the weapons don't have to go straight out from where they are mounted. They can be set so you always know where they are going to land and the distance between the various cross hairs does not have to be so extreme as to make hitting anything wildly difficult.

Juree Riggd, on 12 April 2013 - 10:28 PM, said:

This doesn't promote weapon diversity

Not too worried about weapon diversity. Like I said boating itself is not really an issue. Convergence is the issue, and convergence makes boating super effective. So trying to throw out ideas that will allow people to happily boat, but would put them on a more level playing field with those that don't.

Edited by Brilig, 12 April 2013 - 11:26 PM.

[Juree Riggd]

Brilig, on 12 April 2013 - 11:14 PM, said:

Your suggestion

This is also a possible solution for weapon convergence, although it may clutter up your HUD and obstruct view. I can definitely envision the skill involved in landing shots from all of your different weapon groups, and that's what is important. Individual player skill should be rewarded. If you can aim and land your shots, you should get kills. Random misses do not encourage competitive play.

[Helican]

TruePoindexter, on 12 April 2013 - 12:06 AM, said:

So you want to damage stock builds like the Hunchback 4P for what? To make firing only single weapons viable? If you don't realize this problem you are not thinking through your proposal.

Don't bring up Clans because they're not in the game yet and even if they were the way you fight a specialty mech remains the same - exploit its weakness. If they're a close range 2 AC20 mech you fight at range with focus fire. SRM boats you do the same thing - fight at range and focus fire them. PPC snipers you close distance with them and they're helpless.

Every single example situation that people list assumes that the victim does not fight back in any logical manner. Do people really just stand there and take the 2 AC20 to the face without maneuvering or shooting back?

And do you really think that ppc boats are going to wait patiently while you close or ac/40 mechs are just going to stand 500 yards away? Works both ways...

[Juree Riggd]

Helican, on 12 April 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

And do you really think that ppc boats are going to wait patiently while you close or ac/40 mechs are just going to stand 500 yards away? Works both ways...

And they shouldn't. This is where skill and strategy comes in. When people get headshotted, they get outplayed. If the 6 PPC build kills you, then maybe next time don't just run out into the open without testing the water first, or if the AC40 build kills you, don't charge straight at the Jagermech probably carrying those dual AC20s, maybe try to keep him at a bit of range so you at least have a chance to strafe or stutterstep and throw off his aim.

[Helican]

Juree Riggd, on 12 April 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

And they shouldn't. This is where skill and strategy comes in. When people get headshotted, they get outplayed. If the 6 PPC build kills you, then maybe next time don't just run out into the open without testing the water first, or if the AC40 build kills you, don't charge straight at the Jagermech probably carrying those dual AC20s, maybe try to keep him at a bit of range so you at least have a chance to strafe or stutterstep and throw off his aim.

Not every mech is setup to do that, and in many situation its impossible to "test the waters" because you simply cannot see what's there. And even "if" you mange to bob and weave your way around (which is nearly impossible to do in anything other than a light) an ac/40 for a bit, he needs one or 2 shots to take you down while you will need several. Unless, of course, you are running a similar build. Or...you can try to not charge right at him, but again, unless you are in a light, that's not going to make all that much difference.

I dunno man, you seem to be under the impression that aiming is somehow tricky. That if I just throttle dance with my heavy/assault that I will totally juke him right outta his socks. That if I try to flank he has zero chance to get in my face. And the other people in your camp seem to think that you can always advance right up to anyone, anywhere, anytime under cover. Sadly, none of that is true.

[Juree Riggd]

Helican, on 12 April 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

Not every mech is setup to do that, and in many situation its impossible to "test the waters" because you simply cannot see what's there. And even "if" you mange to bob and weave your way around (which is nearly impossible to do in anything other than a light) an ac/40 for a bit, he needs one or 2 shots to take you down while you will need several. Unless, of course, you are running a similar build. Or...you can try to not charge right at him, but again, unless you are in a light, that's not going to make all that much difference.

I dunno man, you seem to be under the impression that aiming is somehow tricky. That if I just throttle dance with my heavy/assault that I will totally juke him right outta his socks. That if I try to flank he has zero chance to get in my face. And the other people in your camp seem to think that you can always advance right up to anyone, anywhere, anytime under cover. Sadly, none of that is true.

Unfortunately, not every build on every mech is going to be able to counter every other build on every other mech. You're piloting a slow assault or heavy, you have to accept that if you put yourself in a vulnerable position, you're going to get punished for doing so. I am biased in the dodge/cover situation because I pretty much exclusively run light mechs. Flanking does not equal staying at range. You're in an assault or heavy mech, right? Shouldn't you have a fairly large array of weapons available to either fight at range or up close?

[Odins Fist]

Brilig, on 11 April 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

Id rather have them all deviate to begin with. The only weapons that should converge are the ones in fully articulated arms.

If you are not moving, and your "FIXED" weapons fire, there should be a "HUGE" hit concentrated...

The P-51 Mustang with sevral .50 cals could be setup to hit with multiple converging points, so why couldn't 2 of your "BRAWLER" weapons be set to hit at certain variable ranges to "AUTO" correct in the year 3050, far past today's date, and also, wouldn't targeting systems be able to make this correction anyway..??

It's not like all planets are backwater 1850's Earth Tech, and I think the factories that were still producing any tech in 3050 would consider this childs play..

Oh wait, 2 dimensional thinking runs rampant here...
EDIT: Argument over, "PERIOD"

Edited by Odins Fist, 12 April 2013 - 11:50 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

Helican, on 12 April 2013 - 11:20 PM, said:

And do you really think that ppc boats are going to wait patiently while you close or ac/40 mechs are just going to stand 500 yards away? Works both ways...

Funny enough I ran a mix of close range and mid range mechs tonight. Very successful night including many fights against PPC snipers and AC 20 boats. No problems fighting against them. Fight at the appropriate range for your mech and your opponent while working with your team.

[Leimrey]

You don't need to nerf high alpha, high heat spike mechs, you just need to make pure DPS mechs more viable. How about lowering the jam rate on the UAC/5? Or introducing the possibility of manual unjam by ejecting the faulty round, losing it in the process, but getting no jam delay? How about making the AC/2 actually viable by fixing its RoF to be 4 DPS, as its supposed to be according to the gamefiles, not 2 DPS at best. AC/2 could also use a slight heat reduction, bringing its heat per shot to values like 0.5-0.7. How about making the AC/5 and AC/10 actually viable by lowering their refire time to some 1.2-1.3 and 1.9-2.1 respectively?

High alpha builds are so prevalent because there are no good DPS weapons in this game apart from the UAC/5 and it jams way too much.

Edited by Leimrey, 13 April 2013 - 03:54 AM.

[Corwin Vickers]

Instead of adding artificial spread why not make mechs bouncy as all hell and make weapons fire with a slight staggering. It your weapons fired like 1/10th of a second apart while you were bouncing all around it would spread out damage while still allowing for skill.

[Malora Sidewinder]

GODzillaGSPB, on 12 April 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

Simple, effective, usable without much effort or thinking involved

Why would you play something different? i don't see a reason to play a mech that's terrible just because it's fitting with lore.