70 replies to this topic

[Waking One]

Afaik they already said we won't be getting any separate parts from what we have now. Generally i reckon we'll have general hardpoints where you can put any weapon (and the model should change... i want a Mad Cat with 2 giant cannons on its back!) and fixed engines etc. as omnimechs should be. Basically a very different fitting system.

[von Pilsner]

Corwin Vickers, on 13 April 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

Little do MWO players know but IS mechs can't mod their engines either, or their weapons, or armor.

Things change.

CPLT-K4: Built on a standard internal structure and using twelve and a half tons of Light Ferro-Fibrous armor, the designers were forced to use a downgrade Magna 195 fusion engine instead of the normal 260.

Battletech is full of custom mechs for their named characters as well...

Catapult CPLT-C1 Jenny "Butterbee" - The personal ride of MechWarrior Jenny Templeton, this variant of the Catapult replaces the standard arm-mounted LRM-15s with a quartet of SRM-6 missile launchers, two in each arm.

[Smeghead87]

Kurayami, on 13 April 2013 - 02:03 AM, said:

On the other hand - armor count and weight for said armor should come from somewhere.

This is the issue with adding external missile pods. Where does the armour come from? Do you take it out of the side torsos making them more fragile. Or do clan mechs just get extra free armour because they have missile pods? It doesn't work.
They need to be part of the side torso like they are in TT otherwise the mechs will exceed their listed tonnages.

[Funky Bacon]

Gun pod on a vulture (like in MW4)? aaand maybe linked to the arm crosshair? Part of me screams yes, another part screams no.

[jay35]

I predict they will come out with something that will lead to massive amounts of QQ, people threatening to quit, and then we all try it and mostly accept it and it works passably well.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

We kinds have all Omnis right now, the great bonus of Omnis, interchangeable weapons we alreadry have in MWO..

So apart from clan weapons having better stats, i see Clan mechs not at all much better-- mayb they have more hardpoints of diffrent types, or a hardpoint that can be used for all weapon types, but otherwise? Just nice Mech models.

Smeghead87, on 13 April 2013 - 03:28 AM, said:

This is the issue with adding external missile pods. Where does the armour come from? Do you take it out of the side torsos making them more fragile. Or do clan mechs just get extra free armour because they have missile pods? It doesn't work.
They need to be part of the side torso like they are in TT otherwise the mechs will exceed their listed tonnages.

They just get declared torso part. finish. No need for extra hit zones

Edited by John McFianna, 13 April 2013 - 08:13 AM.

[Hammish]

Gralzeim, on 13 April 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

I assume that when a Mad Cat gets its 'ear' shot off its side torso and arm will go with it. And if both 'ears' get shot off, the mech goes down (XL engine). Seems fair, considering it's still going to obliterate IS mechs 1v1. Not like Clanners mind a little risk.

Clan XL engines can survive side torso destruction in TT due to only inflicting 2 engine criticals and thus, obstensibly, the same will carry over to MWO. Granted, once actuator and engine/gyro critical effects are in the game.. it'll make them a hotbox. But they'll still be standing.

Just in case you needed another reason as to why clan 'mechs will roflstomp unless handled very, very carefully.

[Destructicus]

Corwin Vickers, on 13 April 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

Little do MWO players know but IS mechs can't mod their engines either, or their weapons, or armor.

Things change.

The hardwired setup of omnimech's internal structures are it's defining characteristic
Other than that it's just a standard battlemech.
I'd hate to think PGI would cut out such a thing for the sake of making the game more accessible or "balanced".
If you ask me it's the perfect trade off for clan tech as it is in the battletech universe.
Other than the higher price, but hey, that's easily implemented

[JudgeDeathCZ]

Hammish, on 13 April 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Clan XL engines can survive side torso destruction in TT due to only inflicting 2 engine criticals and thus, obstensibly, the same will carry over to MWO. Granted, once actuator and engine/gyro critical effects are in the game.. it'll make them a hotbox. But they'll still be standing.

Just in case you needed another reason as to why clan 'mechs will roflstomp unless handled very, very carefully.

I think it will be OK when it gives only 1/3 of original speed and maybe some destroyed HS/DHSs to mech with 2 crits in engine(destroyed side torso with Clan XL).
Anyway only Clan mech I am excited about is Uller/Kit Fox bcuz of its unique construction(And they are in MW3 intro ^^ ) and Adder/Puma(2x ER PPCs on 35 ton mech...anyone?And yeah it looks ****** cool ).
I rather stay in my Stalker than Timber Wolf/Mad Cat .

Hammish, on 13 April 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

Clan XL engines can survive side torso destruction in TT due to only inflicting 2 engine criticals and thus, obstensibly, the same will carry over to MWO. Granted, once actuator and engine/gyro critical effects are in the game.. it'll make them a hotbox. But they'll still be standing.

Just in case you needed another reason as to why clan 'mechs will roflstomp unless handled very, very carefully.

[Novakaine]

There are no Clans.
The Clans do not exist.
The Clans are a myth.
You have been warned.
FedCom MilSec

[Commander Kobold]

Gralzeim, on 13 April 2013 - 01:51 AM, said:

For balance reasons, I highly doubt they'll give Omnimechs free space for weapons (which is what the proposed pod idea is, extra locations that can take damage and be lost without affecting the torso/arms). They'll likely keep to the same "RT CT LT LA RA LL RL Head" layout we use now, because adding additional spots for weapons would make Omnimechs even more overpowered than they already will be, even if 'outnumbered' by IS mechs.

I assume that when a Mad Cat gets its 'ear' shot off its side torso and arm will go with it. And if both 'ears' get shot off, the mech goes down (XL engine). Seems fair, considering it's still going to obliterate IS mechs 1v1. Not like Clanners mind a little risk.

Don't Clan XLs not have that weakness?

[IceSerpent]

Chavette, on 13 April 2013 - 12:52 AM, said:

Hats off for the proper photoshop, 8/10

Dude, if you are serious, you are probably the only player who hasn't seen this particular bug.

Corwin Vickers, on 13 April 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

Little do MWO players know but IS mechs can't mod their engines either, or their weapons, or armor.

Little does Corwin Vickers know, but construction rules were invented and pulished for a reason...

Edited by IceSerpent, 13 April 2013 - 08:55 AM.

[AlexEss]

If i can take a stab at it i think they will assign each chassie a set amount of hardpoints

lets say we have the wolfie... it get two in each arm and two in each outer torso and and then you can put what ever your hearts desire in there.

Also i do no think the wolfies pods will be their own sections seeing how they work just like the hunchback... and we do not see that getting it's gun-pod as it's own location.

Any way that is my bet, if im wrong i'l pay you two solaris credits.

Edited by AlexEss, 13 April 2013 - 08:57 AM.

[Graham Wallace]

I imagine the devs will give them (the Timber Wolf at least) the 'missile doors' treatment, where the hitbox of the missile rack has a fat chunk of damage resistance when the missile doors are closed. I don't know how that'd work with autocannons and the like, other than them having a smaller profile.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

It has never been that omni mechs are better then traditional designs. it is that clan weapons are so ******* overpowered you have no choice but to bend over and take it in the rear with no KY.

Omni mechs themselves suck for customization.

[DocBach]

jay35, on 13 April 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

I predict they will come out with something that will lead to massive amounts of QQ, people threatening to quit, and then we all try it and mostly accept it and it works passably well.

you mean everyone just adapts clan tech? the accepting it means people just end up using the only viable meta game item, like we see everytime PGI tries to "balance" something.

[Ravenspyre]

Weighing in on the whole Timber Wolf extra pod thing. I won't deny, the Timber wolf is my favorite mech, and I plan on getting it (even at it's 25 million cred cost) when it comes out. However, as the game currently stands and with some people having magical aim skills lately (had a game yesterday where someone shot my cockpit through my back on my catapult some how O.o, though considering how crappy the latency to the game has been since April 2nd patch I might buy lag, almost) and making the pods apart of the R/LCT as they are in the TT would basically amount to the Timber Wolf being the most easily cored mech in the game.

They don't need to be more surface just make them only carry what they can carry. If they only house missiles then they can only carry the launcher and only 1 of that. I am sure there could be a way to distribute the L/RCT armor and internal weight towards the pods without overweighting the mechs, because as it stands if they are counted as L/RCT, the Timber Wolf is going to be one of the easiest to core (for XL engines) of all the mechs put in the game as it stands, unless they do break the game and give a lot more armor to that L/RCT section.

[Dax Frey]

[General Taskeen]

Accalia, on 13 April 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

because as it stands if they are counted as L/RCT, the Timber Wolf is going to be one of the easiest to core (for XL engines) of all the mechs put in the game as it stands

Clan XL's only have 2 crit places in RT/LT. They can survive one side being blown apart, where as an IS XL with 3 crits is a challenging liability and instantly destroys the whole engine. That is the advantage of a Clan XL engine and future Light Fusion Engine.

Sure the huge missile pod would be easy to hit, but that doesn't mean once it is gone a Mad Cat is instantly dead. And even then, the devs are implementing 3D Modulation into the game, so if a player took a Mad Cat and unmounted the Missiles, they might put something else there to reduce the hit box.

[Ravenspyre]

General Taskeen, on 13 April 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Clan XL's only have 2 crit places in RT/LT. They can survive one side being blown apart, where as an IS XL with 3 crits is a challenging liability and instantly destroys the whole engine. That is the advantage of a Clan XL engine and future Light Fusion Engine.

Sure the huge missile pod would be easy to hit, but that doesn't mean once it is gone a Mad Cat is instantly dead. And even then, the devs are implementing 3D Modulation into the game, so if a player took a Mad Cat and unmounted the Missiles, they might put something else there to reduce the hit box.

That's almost completely ignoring the forest for the tree in front of you. Taking one pod sure the timber wolf can survive, taking both, which will be exceptionally easier considering how high they are mounted on the mech in the concept image I've seen of it, it won't be that much trouble. The easiest solution would be to make the pods separate hit locations and just use the LRM hit points as their damage, maybe giving them extra resistance. But that's the easy solution. But saying that the the high mounted pods would not be easily targeted and destroyed, especially with some of the magic aiming abilities of some pilots, seems to be trying to sweep under the rug how vulnerable this particular mech design will be in the current game. Saying it's a trade off for all the power it has is again ignoring the forest for the trees.

How many people would complain if the actual cockpit of the Cataphract, as it stands is that entire center torso section instead of that sliver of a spot near the dead center it actually is? Saying something that would be easily exploitable by some of the crack shots of the game, and lets face it, people that use aimbots and other such easy aiming tools, would not be viable in the slightest to the otherwise most iconic mech in the series.