70 replies to this topic

[Khanahar]

Accalia, on 13 April 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

The arms in the default are ER LLs, so that's as likely as them being PPCs or ER PPCs (whcih I would probably switch the ER LLs to anyways).
...
I would say he swapped them to SRM6s just for dumbfire capabilities and was done with it (again something I would do because LRM and SSRM are currently worthless with the abundance of ECM lately).

Well, Clans don't do non-ER PPCs or non-Streak SRMs, so those are out of consideration. And maybe he has a few Loki buddies packing their own ECMs.

And above poster appears to be correct about Mad Cat IV.

Incidentally, I was wrong about the A versus D variants. Both have ER PPCs, but the D is the one with 4 SSRM6s, two rear mounted, and 1 ERSL. The A has 1 SSRM6, 3 MPL, 1 SPL.

Since we were originally talking weapon hardpoints, here's my guess:
Mad Cat (Timberwolf) Prime
2 O (2) RA
2 O (2) LA
1 M (20) RT <--could be 15 depending on which art they're going with
1 B RT
1 M (20) LT
1 E LT
1 B CT

Note this gives omni slots tube numbers like missile slots, limiting how fast they can fire missiles if those are equipped.

Also note the possibilities of the RT ballistic slot. Although, it will be limited whether the solution is to split crits/armor into two locations (cannon fit large weapons) or by the ability to be easily neutered.

[Khanahar]

Accalia, on 13 April 2013 - 11:30 AM, said:

In the TT the AC is not a solid fire weapon. Is it pretty much a machine gun that fires HEAP (high explosive armor piercing) rounds. The rating value is how many shells it fires. So basically, in laymens terms, this means that the AC is basically the ballistic variant of a laser. It's kind of silly how much punch ACs have, and saying the counter balance is their finite ammo supply doesn't really cut it with me.

Also, this isn't exactly true. ACs in TT fire a wide variety of ballistic types, some similar to what is described above, others with even more per volley, and others very few (the YLW's AC/20 fires a single shot, like ours). The AC/20 rating is just a classification and standardization of a diverse set of weapons.

I will always miss the sound effect of MC's AC/20 (Heavy AC) which fired four heavy shells in sequence.

[Ravenspyre]

Royalewithcheese, on 13 April 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

TT values don't really mean anything in the context of MWO, tho. In actual gameplay, the AC/20 and the UAC/5 are competitive, and the rest of the ACs are not.

In actual game play, the ACs are over competitive Maybe under for people who can't aim (I am not good at aiming either so don't claim to be the awesomest mech pilot evar). They need to be toned down because they are becoming too prolific in the game now. All day yesterday I was in matches where it was just a wall of AC users and they would start firing at anything that popped a head out. And that much damage being delivered that fast obliterated mechs too fast. It's not competitive or fun because outside of a really fast light mech it's almost impossible to avoid it.

Khanahar, on 13 April 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

[size=4]
Also, this isn't exactly true. ACs in TT fire a wide variety of ballistic types, some similar to what is described above, others with even more per volley, and others very few (the YLW's AC/20 fires a single shot, like ours). The AC/20 rating is just a classification and standardization of a diverse set of weapons.

I will always miss the sound effect of MC's AC/20 (Heavy AC) which fired four heavy shells in sequence.

The rules only assume one variable as all the ammo is treated the same, where in MWO it isn't. The ammo is almost listed as a burst quantity. Ammo limitations on something that can be gamed that easily is not really a viable excuses against it. Not to mention in the rules the AC is suppose to have a min range at least on at least two of the variants, that doesn't exist in MWO. And if we are going to argue that they are a single shell, then ACs need to start giving more kick than they do.

Edited by Accalia, 13 April 2013 - 12:52 PM.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Corwin Vickers, on 13 April 2013 - 03:06 AM, said:

Little do MWO players know but IS mechs can't mod their engines either, or their weapons, or armor.

Things change.

Actually, TT has always allowed IS Mechs to changes their engines, weapons and armor, add/remove heatsinks and jumpjets and ammo and various other things. It takes times and money in TT and there's always a chance you'll muck it all up instead of making it better..no, seriously, a chance of breaking things when you customize the Mech instead of making it work.

OMNIMECHS..you can't change certain things, like the engine, armor and certain hardwired weapons/equipment, which are listed for each Omni, these are things you can NOT change, the price for being able to swap that ERPPC out for an AC20 if you so desire, something you can do ON the field no less. IS Mechs, swapping out an ERPPC for an AC20 would take a lot of time and couldn't be done in the field at all. That's the beauty of Omni's, wherever there is an Omnipod, you can fit ANYTHING in it as long as you have the critical space in that pod and the tonnage and you can do it between fights on the field, something the IS can't do for quite a few years yet. And you aren't restricted to weapon type, just crits space and tonnage, swap energy for ballistic for missiles..or even fill a pod with heatsinks if you feel like it.

As for the Timberwolf's big LRM pods..we don't know what they'll be considered as right now. We DO know that the paperdoll shows those pods on it, a bug that used to happen a lot in CB showed us that. We don't know if that's just to represent the unique profile of the Timberwolf or if it actually means they are considered as distinct pieces of the Mech in addition to the RT/LT, anything from us, the community, is pure speculation and PGI hasn't ever said anything on it.

[Khanahar]

Hey, I'm not interested in arguing ACs. I think the problem is with the AC/20 (and more generally with short ranged weaponry) but that's neither here nor there.

On Topic:
So, I did some looking at Prime through D variants (all those before the E ATM variant), to look at the hardpoint question. Made a few observations to guide looking at it:
RA is always direct-fire, but is sometimes E, other times B.
LA is always E.
RT (or Missile Pod) always has M. Prime variant alone has 1 B in RT.
LT has M in every variant except the A, where it has 3 E.
LT has E in the Prime and A, but not B, C, or D.
LA has E in all variants.

Minimum possible hardpoints are:
Prime 5 E, 2 B, 2 M
A: 6 E, 0 B, 1 M
B: 2 E, 1 B, 2 M
C: 3 E, 1 B, 2M
D: 3 E, 0 B, 4 M
To give a semi-consistent number of hardpoints across variants and reflect sizes of default weapons you could go with:
Pr: 4 E, 0 B, 2 M, 3 O ... minimum, make both MGs and the MPL omnis. advantage of largest missile tube arrays.
A: 4 E, 0 B, 1 M, 4 O ... make one LT E an omni, add 2 more omnis to the slot, so this variant has lots of omni in LT.
B: 1 E, 3 B, 2 M, 2 O ... add 2 B RA. Make LA 2 omni instead of 2 E. ballistic variant, pays with no torso omnis, CT slot.
C: 2 E, 2 B, 2 M, 3 O ... add 1 B RA. add 1 omni to each side torso, convert CT to omni. balanced variant.
D: 2 E, 0 B, 4 M, 3 O ... add 1 omni to each side torso, convert CT to omni. missile boating ability.
Just one way of of doing it.

Edited by Khanahar, 13 April 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[Ravenspyre]

Khanahar, on 13 April 2013 - 01:50 PM, said:

<stuff>

Well the whole point of an omni mech is that the hardpoints aren't locked into a specific weapon set. So in theory, if an omni mech wanted, they could change out those missile pods for ACs, or the arm lasers for ACs and put missiles in the chest chassis instead. But that's in theory. I know the omni mechs have some hardpoints that can't be changed, (such as the missile pods) but others that can be.

Of course, I still fear when it does come to pass that the omni mechs will be inferior (in the current MWO set up) and in the end would probably prefer the battlemechs over that.

Edited by Accalia, 13 April 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[Terran123rd]

John McFianna, on 13 April 2013 - 08:11 AM, said:

We kinds have all Omnis right now, the great bonus of Omnis, interchangeable weapons we alreadry have in MWO..

We don't have omni's. We have access to the kinds of facilities that are required to modify non-omni 'mechs.

[Ravenspyre]

Terran123rd, on 13 April 2013 - 02:12 PM, said:

We don't have omni's. We have access to the kinds of facilities that are required to modify non-omni 'mechs.

Even then it's not omni, because an omni isn't limited to all energy, or ballistic, or missile in one spot. It can swap a missile for an energy or a ballstic.

Edited by Accalia, 13 April 2013 - 02:15 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

The reason I said that pods would only be 6 Crits, is to hard limit them from certain things like big guns and massive LRM's (Mad Cat). Thus limiting the ability to place Guass or AC10's, or twin LRM 20's in places like the gun pod on the vulture or two 20's on the mad cat/loki/dishi's missile pods.

As for the Vultures little gun pod, its default guns were twin ERMPL's, but you can swap them for anything. In MWO if that gun pod is 6 Crits, yes you could put in an SRM6 and LL, in which the pod would have a beam emitter on one side and an SRM6 on the other side. Also as for that pod it would be tied to the arms reticule, as it has full free motion like the arms of the mech dose.

The Mad Cat's pods are NOT omni there missile only, the omli part of that mech is in the torsos.





Modding of the mechs MUST be available, in complete form. From Endo to Ferro, these are options anyways, and will remain so. CDHS would be the only thing on the mech, as STHS don't exist anymore for clans. The other reason I say modding will be allowed for the ENG rating only is, whos to say who is piloting that mech? Wouldn't IS mech pilots change or modify that mech once they got there paws on one? What if they only got the HULL of the mech, but no guns, they would still need to place an ENG and weapons on it, even if they were IS. So you see, modding of clan and omni mechs would be a MUST, regardless of how TT dose it, because this ISN'T TT.




I covered on that post, my personal top two Heavy mechs that I love dearly. As for the rest of the classes, well heres the list of my top mechs.

Light: Cougar
Medium: Shadow Cat
Heavy: Vulture
Assault: Dishi


A Great many people will be coming to this game remembering MW4 and even the accursed Mechassault, with fondness. Remembering the fun of blowing up big stompy robots when they hear the name Mechwarrior. Its to those people PGI is making this game towards, not some TT purest nut jobs that are only a handful of people vs the untold masses that LIKED those two games.

[Royalewithcheese]

Accalia, on 13 April 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

In actual game play, the ACs are over competitive Maybe under for people who can't aim (I am not good at aiming either so don't claim to be the awesomest mech pilot evar). They need to be toned down because they are becoming too prolific in the game now. All day yesterday I was in matches where it was just a wall of AC users and they would start firing at anything that popped a head out. And that much damage being delivered that fast obliterated mechs too fast. It's not competitive or fun because outside of a really fast light mech it's almost impossible to avoid it.

I have a feeling that you're misidentifying PPC and Gauss shots as AC rounds - those two weapons are super dominant in the current meta, mostly because most brawler variants (and all but one fast brawler) leaned heavily on the SRM. No SRMs = fewer brawlers = sniping is comparatively more effective and less risky. It's not like any of the remaining top-tier weapons got better in the last month, it's that there are fewer top-tier weapons and that missiles aren't top-tier at all anymore.

[Ravenspyre]

Royalewithcheese, on 13 April 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

I have a feeling that you're misidentifying PPC and Gauss shots as AC rounds - those two weapons are super dominant in the current meta, mostly because most brawler variants (and all but one fast brawler) leaned heavily on the SRM. No SRMs = fewer brawlers = sniping is comparatively more effective and less risky. It's not like any of the remaining top-tier weapons got better in the last month, it's that there are fewer top-tier weapons and that missiles aren't top-tier at all anymore.

Nope, I know what a gauss and PPC sounds like (hell I use 2 ER PPCs on my Cata regularly) and the damage stat specifically stats AC when my mech is destroyed.

Edited by Accalia, 13 April 2013 - 08:54 PM.