378 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

cyberFluke, on 15 April 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

Clueless. Thanks for the bump though. <3

The clueless are the ones seeking to bring everyone else down to their level, instead of challenging themselves to rise up and join that level of play.

Good luck rolling your dice on your desk.

[cyberFluke]

DV McKenna, on 15 April 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

The clueless are the ones seeking to bring everyone else down to their level, instead of challenging themselves to rise up and join that level of play.

Good luck rolling your dice on your desk.

If that's your angle, put your money where your mouth is, I've posted my stats previous in the thread. Get yours out.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

cyberFluke, on 15 April 2013 - 02:04 AM, said:

If that's your angle, put your money where your mouth is, I've posted my stats previous in the thread. Get yours out.

I can't seem to find your link to your stats, care to link an old man?

[cyberFluke]

DV McKenna, on 15 April 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

I can't seem to find your link to your stats, care to link an old man?

They're not Award Winning, but I hold my own mostly.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Your right, they are not terrible which makes your position on aiming even more confusing, mine are neither that impressive Boywonder and Bryan steal all the kills

Edited by DV McKenna, 15 April 2013 - 02:21 AM.

[Jam the Bam]

I came to this game to get away from random dice-rolling crap in games like WoT and the other MMO's I play, I love how MWO is purely skill based, if they change that I will leave.

Don't get angry that other people are good at the game, get better.

If you don't like the fact that someone can shoot well, then maybe you shouldn't be playing a SHOOTING game.

[cyberFluke]

I honestly believe it's too easy to pick apart most mechs, and this system is the best idea I can come up with to help deal with a multitude of problems MW:O has. I truly believe that having a randomised "cone of fire" can help, but I feel that people think I want people to have to be stationary to take a shot. Whether this is intentional hyperbole to try and hide something they strongly disagree with or they've bought into someone posting such bollocks, I'm not sure.

Edited by cyberFluke, 15 April 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

cyberFluke, on 15 April 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

I honestly believe it's too easy to pick apart most mechs, and this system is the best idea I can come up with to help deal with a multitude of problems MW:O has. I truly believe that having a randomised "cone of fire" can help, but I feel that people think I want people to have to be stationary to take a shot. Whether this is intentional hyperbole to try and hide something they strongly disagree with or they've bought into someone posting such bollocks, I'm not sure.

It's not. You're engaging in open ground slugfests, and most of us have been playing for *9 months.* Of course you die in moments if I see you taking the water route on river city.

[Belorion]

Sounds like a terrible idea from someone that likes to stand still when they shoot.

Movement already makes shooting more difficult.

[Zylo]

cyberFluke, on 15 April 2013 - 02:28 AM, said:

I honestly believe it's too easy to pick apart most mechs, and this system is the best idea I can come up with to help deal with a multitude of problems MW:O has. I truly believe that having a randomised "cone of fire" can help, but I feel that people think I want people to have to be stationary to take a shot. Whether this is intentional hyperbole to try and hide something they strongly disagree with or they've bought into someone posting such bollocks, I'm not sure.

I can't remember where I first saw a fix for this suggested but I remember the basic concept was lowering the heat capacity of a mech while increasing the heatsink efficiency over time.

This might still allow some high alpha ballistic builds to do a short burst of damage but would shut down any very high heat/high alpha energy or missile based design. This would lower the amount of focused damage by forcing players to reduce the number of weapons fired at the same time.

A 4x PPC stalker might not be able to fire all 4 PPC's under this type of system without an instant shutdown but might be able to fire 2 of them, wait 1 second then fire the other 2 without overheating. This would force aiming accuracy to make all 4 of those PPC's hit the same location when taking 2 shots instead of 1 and would give the target a better chance to spread damage if they were unable to get behind cover.

Edited by Zylo, 15 April 2013 - 02:48 AM.

[cyberFluke]

Vassago Rain, on 15 April 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

It's not. You're engaging in open ground slugfests, and most of us have been playing for *9 months.* Of course you die in moments if I see you taking the water route on river city.

I've been playing since first wave closed beta, don't try and get all high and mighty on me. You keep bumping my post with your inane crap, much <3

Belorion, on 15 April 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

Sounds like a terrible idea from someone that likes to stand still when they shoot.

Movement already makes shooting more difficult.

Sounds like a moronic assumption made by a .....

[Denno]

...

[cyberFluke]

Denno, on 15 April 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

...

Same to you pal

[Alienfreak]

DV McKenna, on 15 April 2013 - 01:59 AM, said:

The clueless are the ones seeking to bring everyone else down to their level, instead of challenging themselves to rise up and join that level of play.

Good luck rolling your dice on your desk.

Oh so you are one of those that can hit a 3cm big target on their screen which moves with less than 5°/s with instant hit or almost instant hit weapons?

Have you ever tried sniping in ACE2 with wind deflection, (almost) proper bullet drop and a target that is not 18 meters high and only 500 meters way? Not to mention that your bullet will not be there in 0.5 seconds.

But OH RIGHT! Measuring wind (which is changing, so its RANDOM AND UNSKILL), adjusting your aim and having to know when you can hit the enemy because of his movement patterns/situational awarness?
It just screams UNSKILL BECAUSE OF RANDOM. It is so much harder to hit a house sized target from 800 meters with almost no bulletdrop, instanthit weapons or almost instanthit weapons.

Knowing your good weapon fighting distance incorporating speed of you and the enemy plus probably even having to fire in bursts and not smashing all your 2 mouse buttons for your Laser Weapongroups permanently is unskill for sure.

You guys are just afraid that the ARCADE GAMEPLAY of this mech "simulator" will go away and you cannot 6LL or 4PPC some guy from 800 meters pin point in his side torso while he is moving full speed as are you. Because you would have to think about how fast to move, how to properly manage your heat and to know how your weapon reacts.

Edited by Alienfreak, 15 April 2013 - 03:08 AM.

[cyberFluke]

See, version 1 of "The System" could be as I described, a reticule, within which your shots fall at random, which expands dependant on certain factors (including, but not in any way limited to; velocity, heat level, acceleration due to gravity or jump jets).

Version 2, when more time can be put into it, the reticule actually sways with the mech's cockpit, get thrown in the direction a physical hit would carry the mech (the magnitude even dependant on the mass of the mech vs the slug if you want), flies around when falling etc.

What I'm saying is that is doesn't *have* to be random, it's just the easiest way of simulating a huge number of factors influencing the machine's aim.

EDIT: SP

Edited by cyberFluke, 15 April 2013 - 03:19 AM.

[Belorion]

cyberFluke, on 15 April 2013 - 02:49 AM, said:

I've been playing since first wave closed beta, don't try and get all high and mighty on me. You keep bumping my post with your inane crap, much <3



Sounds like a moronic assumption made by a .....

I have noticed that people get very defensive the closer to the mark you get.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Alienfreak, on 15 April 2013 - 03:04 AM, said:

Oh so you are one of those that can hit a 3cm big target on their screen which moves with less than 5°/s with instant hit or almost instant hit weapons?

Have you ever tried sniping in ACE2 with wind deflection, (almost) proper bullet drop and a target that is not 18 meters high and only 500 meters way? Not to mention that your bullet will not be there in 0.5 seconds.

But OH RIGHT! Measuring wind (which is changing, so its RANDOM AND UNSKILL), adjusting your aim and having to know when you can hit the enemy because of his movement patterns/situational awarness?
It just screams UNSKILL BECAUSE OF RANDOM. It is so much harder to hit a house sized target from 800 meters with almost no bulletdrop, instanthit weapons or almost instanthit weapons.

Knowing your good weapon fighting distance incorporating speed of you and the enemy plus probably even having to fire in bursts and not smashing all your 2 mouse buttons for your Laser Weapongroups permanently is unskill for sure.

You guys are just afraid that the ARCADE GAMEPLAY of this mech "simulator" will go away and you cannot 6LL or 4PPC some guy from 800 meters pin point in his side torso while he is moving full speed as are you. Because you would have to think about how fast to move, how to properly manage your heat and to know how your weapon reacts.

Couple of point's in here to address

Quote

Oh so you are one of those that can hit a 3cm big target on their screen which moves with less than 5°/s with instant hit or almost instant hit weapons?

Have you ever tried sniping in ACE2 with wind deflection, (almost) proper bullet drop and a target that is not 18 meters high and only 500 meters way? Not to mention that your bullet will not be there in 0.5 seconds.

I did not realize Lasers/PPC's that move at or close to the speed of light would be effected by bullet drop, last i checked they don't use bullets.
Ballistics aside from Gauss are a little bit less than instant hit, however i am all for bullet drop on ballistic weapons here if you so wish, you just put energy weapons on top of the pile never to be removed by doing so.

Quote

But OH RIGHT! Measuring wind (which is changing, so its RANDOM AND UNSKILL), adjusting your aim and having to know when you can hit the enemy because of his movement patterns/situational awarness?
It just screams UNSKILL BECAUSE OF RANDOM. It is so much harder to hit a house sized target from 800 meters with almost no bulletdrop, instanthit weapons or almost instanthit weapons.

Why would i be measuring wind? im pretty sure in the base of the lore here, Mechwarrior pilots did no pause to assess the wind and is direction before firing their AC20 at the evil Nova running around it firing Medium Lasers laughing (at least i don't remember that bit in the novel/lorebase)

Im not sure which game you currently play but the second half of that sentence you already do in game, to most people their brain does it naturally, you account for the movement of the target and also your own movement to line up a shot, if your not leading your shots with ballistics and lasers i think i know why your saying your terrible at the game of aiming.
If the mech is running horizontal on your screen you don't shoot your AC 20 at where it is currently standing...unless you want to miss.

Burst fire you say? that is what happens when you bring low calibre AC's...other than those there is very little here in the Mechwarrior universe that lends itself to having a burst fire mode...that is more CoD and such.

Im also assuming that as aiming is totally easy for you, that your accuracy with all non missile based systems is 90-100%

Edited by DV McKenna, 15 April 2013 - 03:48 AM.

[KinLuu]

Most likely was already posted somewhere in those 10 pages of useless, but still.

From Ask the Devs 34:

Quote

Zyllos: With many discussions on convergence of weaponry, has there been any discussions on why/why not more variability should be added to weapon fire, thus spreading the damage more across a target?

A: We’ve removed randomness from weapon firing in favor of skill.

Source: http://mwomercs.com/...evs-34-answers/

This has always been PGI's stance on this issue. And most of their playerbase feel the same way.

[Vassago Rain]

Alienfreak, on 15 April 2013 - 03:04 AM, said:

Oh so you are one of those that can hit a 3cm big target on their screen which moves with less than 5°/s with instant hit or almost instant hit weapons?

Have you ever tried sniping in ACE2 with wind deflection, (almost) proper bullet drop and a target that is not 18 meters high and only 500 meters way? Not to mention that your bullet will not be there in 0.5 seconds.

But OH RIGHT! Measuring wind (which is changing, so its RANDOM AND UNSKILL), adjusting your aim and having to know when you can hit the enemy because of his movement patterns/situational awarness?
It just screams UNSKILL BECAUSE OF RANDOM. It is so much harder to hit a house sized target from 800 meters with almost no bulletdrop, instanthit weapons or almost instanthit weapons.

Knowing your good weapon fighting distance incorporating speed of you and the enemy plus probably even having to fire in bursts and not smashing all your 2 mouse buttons for your Laser Weapongroups permanently is unskill for sure.

You guys are just afraid that the ARCADE GAMEPLAY of this mech "simulator" will go away and you cannot 6LL or 4PPC some guy from 800 meters pin point in his side torso while he is moving full speed as are you. Because you would have to think about how fast to move, how to properly manage your heat and to know how your weapon reacts.

Lasers and particle cannons are affected by wind now?

[Alienfreak]

DV McKenna, on 15 April 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

I did not realize Lasers/PPC's that move at or close to the speed of light would be effected by bullet drop, last i checked they don't use bullets.
Ballistics aside from Gauss are a little bit less than instant hit, however i am all for bullet drop on ballistic weapons here if you so wish, you just put energy weapons on top of the pile never to be removed by doing so.

PPCs do use particles. Hence the name. Particles = Mass = Gravity.
PPCs != Speed of Light

It just doesn't have bullet drop out of unknown reasons in MWO.
Ballistic weapons do have bullet drop in MWO. Its just so little that you almost never notice there is any.

Quote

Why would i be measuring wind? im pretty sure in the base of the lore here, Mechwarrior pilots did no pause to assess the wind and is direction before firing their AC20 at the evil Nova running around it firing Medium Lasers laughing (at least i don't remember that bit in the novel/lorebase)

Because windage, manufacturing errors in the projectile or booster, your weapon, heat, the current frequency of your weapon will affect your success in shooting at something.

Quote

Im not sure which game you currently play but the second half of that sentence you already do in game, to most people their brain does it naturally, you account for the movement of the target and also your own movement to line up a shot, if your not leading your shots with ballistics and lasers i think i know why your saying your terrible at the game of aiming.
If the mech is running horizontal on your screen you don't shoot your AC 20 at where it is currently standing...unless you want to miss.

You lead your target with lasers?

Quote

Burst fire you say? that is what happens when you bring low calibre AC's...other than those there is very little here in the Mechwarrior universe that lends itself to having a burst fire mode...that is more CoD and such.

Recoil of your weapon etc pp will affect the next weapons shot.
Imagine your Gauss cannon firing in one group with your AC20. That Gauss will give your mech quite some recoil. The AC20 is a lot slower to leave its barrel and thus will get affected by the recoil of the Gauss cannon.

And burst fire = CoD?
Are you serious?

Quote

Im also assuming that as aiming is totally easy for you, that your accuracy with all non missile based systems is 90-100%

You can rightly assume that my accuracy rating with weapons is higher than yours. (if those values you posted are true)

Vassago Rain, on 15 April 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

Lasers and particle cannons are affected by wind now?

Eristic dialectic trick.

Pick a straw argument out of a group, show that you are right on it and imply it is thus true for all things in that group.

Not to mention
PPC = particles = winddeflection
Lasers = deflection into the wind

Edited by Alienfreak, 15 April 2013 - 04:20 AM.