237 replies to this topic

[Livewyr]

I have bad news for OP.

ECM, like everything else in the game, is right about where they want it.

[Noobzorz]

Livewyr, on 15 April 2013 - 10:19 AM, said:

I have bad news for OP.

ECM, like everything else in the game, is right about where they want it.

They're just saying that because it is much easier to leave things in the condition they are in and spend resources on other things, like CW and sadly monetization.

For example, there is absolutely no one at PGI is dumb enough to think that the MG and Flamer are in good shape. With all the sophisticated decisions that have been made, right or wrong, the fact that no one uses these things will absolutely not have escaped their notice. They just don't know what to do, or if they do, they haven't been able to implement it yet. I will grant you, I don't think their strategy to fix it is sensible (devs, if you're reading this take some ******* risks on balance, please), but if you could catch them in a closed door setting where none of them could be quoted on the forums and have them blow up, I bet you all the money in the world that they would balk at the notion that the MG is ready for primetime.

[Zyllos]

The Drop Ship mode (Lobby mode now) will have a significant impact on this game.

The reason why the different game modes feel off is because it is just so much better/easier to kill off the other team. Rarely is capping to win the way to go, and maybe it should be that way.

But once respawn happens, people are going to be engaging, dying off, and respawning (albet only four times), thus it's going to be much easier to capture 3 points and defend them to winning then trying to destroy off 32 and 48 mechs (albet, that might be possible dependent on the skill of both teams).

I imagine the Lobby mode will make it where you only respawn on a capture point you own (so the single point, Assault, or one of the 5 points, Conquest). Sigma/Gamma will be the default point if no capture points are held.

Edited by Zyllos, 15 April 2013 - 10:45 AM.

[Noobzorz]

Roland, on 15 April 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

As I said, years of experience in MW4 suggest that you are absolutely incorrect.

And my years suggest he's correct, because that's exactly what happened, and what planet were you on during the early 2000s?

In the absence of on map resources (e.g. UT's flak cannon and shield belt, or Quake 3's red armor and railgun), TDM is a complete and unmitigated failure. Obviously in the presence of on-map resources, team deathmatch requires a tremendous number of decisions, but those aren't in Mechwarrior.

Edited by Noobzorz, 15 April 2013 - 10:47 AM.

[Roland]

Noobzorz, on 15 April 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

And my years suggest he's correct, because that's exactly what happened, and what planet were you on during the early 2000s?

Did you play in any of the no respawn planetary leagues?

As I pointed out, in the respawn game type, the games certainly did boil down to a single firing line in the middle of the map, because the respawn feature prevented anything else.

But in all of the NR leagues, it was exceptionally rare to see the engagement take place right between the drop zones.

[ElLocoMarko]

A 5 minute embargo on caps is a shiny idea.

Hoping that Matchmaker phase 4 weight class matching will equalize the number of lights on each team.

But I'm with ya. Blah blah defend... blah. Just doesn't work in the PUG queues.

[Dracol]

Roland, on 15 April 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Seriously, the fact that there's a quarter of the map to the north, which you have almost certainly never even seen, doesn't bother you in the least?

A counter point to the outer regions not being seen. In RL battlefields do not have artificial boundaries. Maybe the maps of MWO where designed so that most of the engagements happen at a distance from the artificial boundaries imposed by this being a game. With these necessary boundaries off in the distance, their immersion breaking effects have a lesser impact on the gamer's playing experience.

TL:DR - unused map space is there to keep immersion breaking artificial boundaries a lesser occurrence.

Edited by Dracol, 15 April 2013 - 11:05 AM.

[Mercules]

ElLocoMarko, on 15 April 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

But I'm with ya. Blah blah defend... blah. Just doesn't work in the PUG queues.

Most of my play is PUG... my experience apparently differs as it seems to work the majority of the time when I am PUGging.

[Timuroslav]

Mystere, on 14 April 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Don't you realize that pure TDM mode = chasing the last light mech?

Actually, close but not right

PURE TDM= Everyone Assaults+ignore your teammates+bawl your teammates out for Low damage Scores aka Not Mechwarrior

[topgun505]

Step 1. Look at you team and determine what builds you have.
Step 2. If you have no lights or fast mediums bring this fact to your teams attention.
Step 3. If you are without light support then coordinate a base defense strat

If you have nothing but assaults and you waddle your fat arse out mid field you are BEGGING to be capped.

[Noobzorz]

ElLocoMarko, on 15 April 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

A 5 minute embargo on caps is a shiny idea.

Hoping that Matchmaker phase 4 weight class matching will equalize the number of lights on each team.

But I'm with ya. Blah blah defend... blah. Just doesn't work in the PUG queues.

Yes it does. I freqeuently do it.

Greedy and stupid players will get sunk to the bottom once they fix the ELO, and as time goes on (and hopefully with some proper assistance from PGI), the meta will develop and people will be playing to win all the time instead of leaving guaranteed cap wins to farm Cbills and XP like a bunch of selfish ******.

Dracol, on 15 April 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

A counter point to the outer regions not being seen. In RL battlefields do not have artificial boundaries. Maybe the maps of MWO where designed so that most of the engagements happen at a distance from the artificial boundaries imposed by this being a game. With these necessary boundaries off in the distance, their immersion breaking effects have a lesser impact on the gamer's playing experience.

TL:DR - unused map space is there to keep immersion breaking artificial boundaries a lesser occurrence.

I'd counter that its just because tourmaline is a badly designed piece of crap and the standout awful map in MWO. The others, including Alpine, have really grown on me in the wake of the missile fix.

[Agent of Change]

topgun505, on 15 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

If you have nothing but assaults and you waddle your fat arse out mid field you are BEGGINGDESERVE to be capped.

Fixed that for ya.

Noobzorz, on 15 April 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Yes it does. I freqeuently do it.

Greedy and stupid players will get sunk to the bottom once they fix the ELO, and as time goes on (and hopefully with some proper assistance from PGI), the meta will develop and people will be playing to win all the time instead of leaving guaranteed cap wins to farm Cbills and XP like a bunch of selfish ******.

This is so the truth. On any of the available maps this is the case. It just boils down to playing for the team, if you can't handle that you might want to play a game that requires less teamwork.

[ElLocoMarko]

I see some discussion of strategies based on the weight makeup of your team.
So, I'm guessing that you were able to convince fellow PUGgers to resist running off to the middle of the map. How exactly did you do that? What words did you use?

Edited by ElLocoMarko, 15 April 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[IceCase88]

Roland, on 15 April 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

:

Are these Rorschach inkblots because I am seeing some unsavory images in them!

[Mercules]

ElLocoMarko, on 15 April 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

I see some discussion of strategies based on the weight makeup of your team.
So, I'm guessing that you were able to convince fellow PUGgers to resist running off to the middle of the map. How exactly did you do that? What words did you use?

"Jenner moving to base C4"

Amazing what happens when I go out and find the enemy light mechs and make people aware of where they are. People then shoot at them. When no one goes out and spots flanking mechs people only shoot the ones they see. Odd how that works.

[Orbit Rain]

it's beta, 12 man's will help, weight/skill/Funcional ELO will help....

I'm going to form the "at any point in time, SOMETHING will suck hardcore" camp, and continue to mock the crying little girls...

Man up and deal with it.

[Agent of Change]

Orbit Rain, on 15 April 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

it's beta, 12 man's will help, weight/skill/Funcional ELO will help....

I'm going to form the "at any point in time, SOMETHING will suck hardcore" camp, and continue to mock the crying little girls...

Man up and deal with it.

I like you

Have you visited K-town yet?

Have you heard the word of the MODS?

if not you should.

[Zylo]

Zyllos, on 15 April 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Weight class matching is a bad idea...I just don't understand why the devs are so against tonnage matching.

Afraid that some players won't be able to pilot whatever they want? That's the whole point of Battletech, some matches just require you to play something you don't some times, either by resources or limitations.

Tonnage matching would make sense for 8-man drops where a team selects their mechs before drop.

In a random game restricting the mechs players can take is a very bad idea, especially when you consider new players who may not yet own more than a single mech. Weight class balance allows the matchmaker to build matches faster due to only needing to match 4 weight class possibilities + Elo ratings. Giving players fewer options or forcing them to play something they don't want to play is a really good way to kill this game. I'm glad you're not in charge of game balance decisions.


I'm not too concerned which weight class I use, I have effective mechs in all weight classes but I know there are players in this game who only pilot a single weight class and in some cases only a single mech type. It's unreasonable to expect them to play something they don't want to play in a random game. In the 8-man drops it's not really a problem because the players who only run a specific mech can still run their favorite while the more flexible pilots who can be effective in any weight class can fill other roles.

Trying to enforce too many BT concepts will not work in MWO. Medium mechs should be far more common than assaults but if you were to force teams to drop with 1 Assault, 2 Heavies, 3 Mediums and 2 Lights you would be failing to find a match pretty often as mediums currently seem to be under-played and Assault pilots would be waiting a long time to get into matches.

[Zylo]

Zyllos, on 15 April 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

The Drop Ship mode (Lobby mode now) will have a significant impact on this game.

The reason why the different game modes feel off is because it is just so much better/easier to kill off the other team. Rarely is capping to win the way to go, and maybe it should be that way.

But once respawn happens, people are going to be engaging, dying off, and respawning (albet only four times), thus it's going to be much easier to capture 3 points and defend them to winning then trying to destroy off 32 and 48 mechs (albet, that might be possible dependent on the skill of both teams).

I imagine the Lobby mode will make it where you only respawn on a capture point you own (so the single point, Assault, or one of the 5 points, Conquest). Sigma/Gamma will be the default point if no capture points are held.

Dropship mode may end up having a problem with limited respawns. If 1 team gets a significant lead, players on the other team will just stop respawning and quit the match rather than continuing to feed the other team more kills.

This problem existed in War Thunder with a similar limited respawn mode. If a team was losing bad, players would quit when they died rather than respawning just to deny the enemy team more kills or avoid wasting time trying to deal with a team that was performing very bad.

[Little Nemo]