237 replies to this topic

[Nigitsu]

Less QQ and more pewpew.

I used to run 8 man premades. We would have about 2-3 lights, 2 mediums, and everything else heavy or assault. We would have 2 dedicated LRM boats (catapults). The lights and lrm boats would be able to easily take out any base cappers. While I do love brawling it out more than capping, it keeps good balance to the game, and gives lights something to do.

I don't see what your deal is.

If you're having such a problem with this, then your buddies need to change your tactics, or get more people to drop with you.

This isn't a problem with the game. It's a problem with you.

[Roland]

DerSpecht, on 15 April 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

More fubn to you and your squad. What about the others who actually enjoy capping?

They could continue to do so?
I don't think anyone is suggesting that they need to remove the current game mode.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Thundercles, on 15 April 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Capping, in concept, is fine. In implementation it's absolutely silly. (Speaking of assault mode here.)
All it needs is a clear-cut definition of who's assaulting, and who's defending. Right now, with the mechanics in place, cap-win games are usually decided before the first minute is out... if one team dares stray more then 30-40 seconds away from their base when the other team decides that capping is their goal, it's pretty much over. Hail-mary caps after main engagements are a bit different, but those are a lot more rare in my experience.

In my experience teams that go all out and rush the cap lose. But then again, I appear to have this magical ability to shoot at things standing in a box.

[Violent Tendencies]

Muffinator, on 14 April 2013 - 06:20 PM, said:

Everything else in this game I can live with but something has to be done about base caps. ...

The game is meant to be about giant robots blowing **** up, not giant robots standing in a square faster than the other team.

You can't be serious...the last thing anyone should have to do is chase the last spiteful enemy spider/Jenner around the map for 5+ minutes Before the round ends.

Defend your base...it's not a difficult concept.

[Thundercles]

Astroniomix, on 15 April 2013 - 06:01 AM, said:

In my experience teams that go all out and rush the cap lose. But then again, I appear to have this magical ability to shoot at things standing in a box.

In my experience the only ones who doggedly stand in the base while under fire are those that are trying to disrupt a cap.
Also? You missed my point. Cap speed versus average mech speed means that in very short order, the bulk of the team is too far out to return to assist. And unless you have a pretty good light pilot, "sending the light back" isn't a solution because a lot of the time its 2+ mechs capping. If it's just one light, it's probably just back there running the cap down to about 5 seconds worth of time left before going back out to join the fray, leaving a "quick win" option available if things go south.

[Roland]

Violent Tendencies, on 15 April 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

You can't be serious...the last thing anyone should have to do is chase the last spiteful enemy spider/Jenner around the map for 5+ minutes Before the round ends.

You speak of this as though it's an unsolvable problem.

Lots of games actually have already solved this problem.

For instance, make a cap point that becomes active after a certain period of time, or when more than half of the enemy team is dead. There you go. Problem solved.

Now you have a game type which is primarily focused on combat, but which eliminates the potential problem of a single person hiding from engagement.

[Star Colonel Mustard Kerensky]

Thundercles, on 15 April 2013 - 06:11 AM, said:

In my experience the only ones who doggedly stand in the base while under fire are those that are trying to disrupt a cap.
Also? You missed my point. Cap speed versus average mech speed means that in very short order, the bulk of the team is too far out to return to assist. And unless you have a pretty good light pilot, "sending the light back" isn't a solution because a lot of the time its 2+ mechs capping. If it's just one light, it's probably just back there running the cap down to about 5 seconds worth of time left before going back out to join the fray, leaving a "quick win" option available if things go south.

This is why the smart teams don't instantly charge out into the center of the map but hang back near(ish) the base untill the scout (whoever has the fastest mech) gets an idea of where the enemy team is going.

[Star Captain Obvious Kerensky]

Simple Solution:

More than 4 mechs on a base does not increase capture speed, and increase the time it takes to capture based on the size of the map.

Now you have no reason to send more than half (1/3 starting soon) your team to capture a base.

[DerSpecht]

Roland, on 15 April 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

They could continue to do so?
I don't think anyone is suggesting that they need to remove the current game mode.

OP suggests that cap is disabled for the first 5 minutes.. actually most of my games are finished after 5-6 minutes so.......

[Sir Crashalot]

No matter what you do, someone will be upset about it. The point of Assault is to capture their base while trying to defend your base. If you decide to hang back and defend then the chances are someone will start shouting at you to stop AFKing or lazing about.
The other night I was the last mech standing so went for their base, one of the other dead team members started hurling abuse at me for not helping and another assumed I was AFK at our base. In the end I went to find the other team and just stood there to let them kill me so I didn't have to suffer any more abuse.
Many people who think they are experienced and everyone else is a "noob" have only themselves to blame. If they know what to do, how about using team chat to set up some tactics instead of saying nothing then screaming when the team loses?

A TDM option would help a lot but until then you just have to deal with it. I'm sure that the rest of us would like an option to turn off chat so we don't have to keep putting up with the bad attitude spam.

[Roland]

DerSpecht, on 15 April 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

OP suggests that cap is disabled for the first 5 minutes.. actually most of my games are finished after 5-6 minutes so.......

Are you suggesting that you cap rush and win through uninterrupted cap in most of your games?

[DerSpecht]

Roland, on 15 April 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Are you suggesting that you cap rush and win through uninterrupted cap in most of your games?

When pugging in my lights or meds? Yes.

[Roland]

And you think that is fun?

This isn't intended to be snarky at all. It's a totally serious question.

If, literally, MOST of your games involve you simply running to a red square and standing there for a minute and then causing the match to end...is that actually fun to you? I mean, I cannot see how that could possibly be entertaining at all. What is the point?

[Thundercles]

Astroniomix, on 15 April 2013 - 06:13 AM, said:

This is why the smart teams don't instantly charge out into the center of the map but hang back near(ish) the base untill the scout (whoever has the fastest mech) gets an idea of where the enemy team is going.

Which, in a PUG game, is like herding cats. "Get a team!" you cry? Wrong answer. I don't have any statistics to back it up, but I'm fairly confident that the majority of players PUG. I'm not saying base capture needs to go away, far from it. It just needs to be reworked. Right now capping is far too easy - even with the minimal rewards one gets for it (both c-bill/xp wise) it's still pretty rampant. Wins don't mean anything at this point really, so the only reward I can imagine from quick-capping is the knowledge that you pretty much just wasted between 8 and 15 other people's time. All it takes is one person deciding to cap, even against their own team's wishes... which I actually see a couple of times a day.

[DerSpecht]

Roland, on 15 April 2013 - 06:24 AM, said:

And you think that is fun?

This isn't intended to be snarky at all. It's a totally serious question.

If, literally, MOST of your games involve you simply running to a red square and standing there for a minute and then causing the match to end...is that actually fun to you? I mean, I cannot see how that could possibly be entertaining at all. What is the point?

The point is watching the mindless lemmings meeting somewhere in the middle of the map and playing long-range-alpha-strike game mode. Seeing their lack of situation awareness and watching them rage when they lose. I call tactical win.

[Joseph Mallan]

What make capping to easy is overly aggressive players.I was in a mach we were up 6 to 2 and nobody went back to stop cap. I was in an atlas on the far side of the map after just killing the last enemy assault. I went to base to cap the enemy and everyone else just seemed to wander around aimlessly. The enemy kept the cap lead and won.

[Roland]

DerSpecht, on 15 April 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

The point is watching the mindless lemmings meeting somewhere in the middle of the map and playing long-range-alpha-strike game mode. Seeing their lack of situation awareness and watching them rage when they lose. I call tactical win.

But you didn't actually get to play the game.

While it may be trivially amusing to troll other players and laugh at their misfortune of having had you end their game, you're kind of cutting off your own nose to spite your face... because you're effectively denying yourself any actual enjoyment that comes from actually playing the game.

That just seems really pointless to me.

[Sir Crashalot]

It would help if the game rewarded tactical play instead of just fragging, what do defenders stand to gain from standing around hoping someone would attack and ending up with nil points and more importantly no bonus cbills/xp?

Ok, tactics and PUGs don't really go hand in hand, but still it would help if there was more incentive.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, to some (not me mind you), that is their fun. to cap as quickly as possible. I drive mostly assaults so If I cap you(general you not specific), you id something very very wrong.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 15 April 2013 - 06:36 AM.

[DerSpecht]

Roland, on 15 April 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

But you didn't actually get to play the game.

While it may be trivially amusing to troll other players and laugh at their misfortune of having had you end their game, you're kind of cutting off your own nose to spite your face... because you're effectively denying yourself any actual enjoyment that comes from actually playing the game.

That just seems really pointless to me.

Everything depends on the point of view. Sometimes you have to deal with enemy cap rushers first. And sometime a raven or commando come visit. So i actually have more fun than anyone else because i get real 1 on 1 situations to prove my skill often.