141 replies to this topic

[armyof1]

hashinshin, on 16 April 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Anyone here point out that shooting out the Heavy Metal's left torso effectively renders it a moving coffin, while the other highlanders have their weapons dispersed around?

Since you're aware of it you can just play it to your advantage be shielding your left side with the right. And having weapons dispersed doesn't only give you advantages, the missiles being split between arm and torso means you'll have less focused firing with missiles unless you're torso-locking and having to deal with the slower targetting of torso weapons instead. Given the choice I'd gladly have 3 missile hardpoints in one arm instead.

[Deathlike]

armyof1, on 16 April 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

Since you're aware of it you can just play it to your advantage be shielding your left side with the right. And having weapons dispersed doesn't only give you advantages, the missiles being split between arm and torso means you'll have less focused firing with missiles unless you're torso-locking and having to deal with the slower targetting of torso weapons instead. Given the choice I'd gladly have 3 missile hardpoints in one arm instead.

Are you using the Atlas defense?

/insert Wookie defense vid here

[brock0]

Would like the highlanders more if missiles weren't complete garbage.

Edited by brock0, 16 April 2013 - 01:56 PM.

[armyof1]

Deathlike, on 16 April 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Are you using the Atlas defense?

/insert Wookie defense vid here

The what?

I'm just saying it would make sense to torso twist to protect your main weaponry and when you know where they are you also know which side you should show to your opponents when under fire.

[Deathlike]

armyof1, on 16 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

The what?

I'm just saying it would make sense to torso twist to protect your main weaponry and when you know where they are you also know which side you should show to your opponents when under fire.

Last I checked, that is what atlases try to do to "cover" its ballistic torso/AC20.. same could be said for hunchies or YLW, etc.

[Eddrick]

I prefer the one that can hold a Gauss Rifle and 3 PPCs. If you have a problem about the differant targeting reticals. You can always lock the arms to the torso. It's a matter of preferance.

Not sure how big of a differance less Jump Jets make in jumping verticaly. I have to try it out.

[armyof1]

Deathlike, on 16 April 2013 - 02:02 PM, said:

Last I checked, that is what atlases try to do to "cover" its ballistic torso/AC20.. same could be said for hunchies or YLW, etc.

Oh never heard that term used for it before, I'm just used to torso twist to defend my CT with just about any mech. But yeah I guess the HM would benefit from twisting mainly in one direction to soak up damage.

[SirLANsalot]

2 of the Highlanders are very different from the HM. The 733 is 4 missile 2 energy 1 ballistic. Don't tell you you can't make a very strong LRM boat out of that, AND have defensive guns like an AC10 or 5 with a pair of ML.

Or the 733P and go the OTHER way with it, and make a very nice energy boat with PPC40's or 4 LL and still take some nice SRM4's or LRM15's or 10's.

Both of those mechs are VERY VERY different then the HM, its just the HM is the most well ROUNDED mech with its hardpoints where they are. You can't boat the PPC on it, you can't run LRM spam on it, and you can't run UAC spam either. All of those are the "boats" people whine about. Yet I still love my HM with 3 LL gauss and SRM4's, its got punch at any range. The other Highlanders are a little more specialized.


So what if the energy is in the torso? You just got to know how to USE it, and it also means you cannot skimp on eng rating, meaning you will need to have a bigger 250+ eng to get good torso twisting out of it.

[Grand Ayatollah Kerensky]

Sorry guys but any fool can see that the 732 is going to be the FoTM. Hero mechs are still Pay 2 Lose.

Edited by Narcisoldier, 16 April 2013 - 02:16 PM.

[armyof1]

SirLANsalot, on 16 April 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

2 of the Highlanders are very different from the HM. The 733 is 4 missile 2 energy 1 ballistic. Don't tell you you can't make a very strong LRM boat out of that, AND have defensive guns like an AC10 or 5 with a pair of ML.

Or the 733P and go the OTHER way with it, and make a very nice energy boat with PPC40's or 4 LL and still take some nice SRM4's or LRM15's or 10's.

Both of those mechs are VERY VERY different then the HM, its just the HM is the most well ROUNDED mech with its hardpoints where they are. You can't boat the PPC on it, you can't run LRM spam on it, and you can't run UAC spam either. All of those are the "boats" people whine about. Yet I still love my HM with 3 LL gauss and SRM4's, its got punch at any range. The other Highlanders are a little more specialized.


So what if the energy is in the torso? You just got to know how to USE it, and it also means you cannot skimp on eng rating, meaning you will need to have a bigger 250+ eng to get good torso twisting out of it.

The missile builds on Highlanders right now are just not that good due to the recent missile nerf, and that goes for both LRMS and SRMS. They will be fixed in May but in what way we really can't say, maybe the end up being "working as intended", who knows? All I know is right now lasers and ballistics are better.

As for arm laser vs torso laser, I mean do I really need to say once more why arm lasers are better? I said it in the original post, I've repeated it several times in this thread. If you still have to ask then please just read what I wrote the first time. In short: lights and torso laser = sad Highlander

Narcisoldier, on 16 April 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

Sorry guys but any fool can see that the 732 is going to be the FoTM. Hero mechs are still Pay 2 Lose.

I don't know about you, but in the past 2 weeks I've seen plenty of HM doing quite well in matches.

[TruePoindexter]

armyof1, on 16 April 2013 - 02:23 PM, said:

The missile builds on Highlanders right now are just not that good due to the recent missile nerf, and that goes for both LRMS and SRMS. They will be fixed in May but in what way we really can't say, maybe the end up being "working as intended", who knows? All I know is right now lasers and ballistics are better.

As for arm laser vs torso laser, I mean do I really need to say once more why arm lasers are better? I said it in the original post, I've repeated it several times in this thread. If you still have to ask then please just read what I wrote the first time. In short: lights and torso laser = sad Highlander

LRMs are ineffective right now but SSRMs and SRMs are still very lethal just not as much as before. You can't just say that all missiles are broken when really only one type is.

Yes arm mounted energy is preferred to torso mounted. Then again though here are all of the mechs that feature torso mounted energy only or have arms that are missing arm swing (effectively locking them to the same horizontal arc as torso weapons).

Stalker
Catapult
Centurion
Cicada
Raven
Jenner

Those mechs work just fine with their weapons limited arc - you just have to work within that limitation.

[armyof1]

TruePoindexter, on 16 April 2013 - 02:28 PM, said:

LRMs are ineffective right now but SSRMs and SRMs are still very lethal just not as much as before. You can't just say that all missiles are broken when really only one type is.

Yes arm mounted energy is preferred to torso mounted. Then again though here are all of the mechs that feature torso mounted energy only or have arms that are missing arm swing (effectively locking them to the same horizontal arc as torso weapons).

Stalker
Catapult
Centurion
Cicada
Raven
Jenner

Those mechs work just fine with their weapons limited arc - you just have to work within that limitation.

I recently bought a 3rd Atlas to finally get them mastered and no I don't agree SRMS are fine, they are not good enough for a short-range weapon doing spread damage. SSRMS on the other hand are still quite broken and all hit CT, so because of that they are still dangerous for anything that don't have plenty of CT armor. But since they are totally nullified by ECM it's always a roll of the dice if they'll be useful or not.

As for the other mechs with only torso energy, only the Stalker make sense in this discussion because all the others have way faster torso/turn speed than an Assault and are not nearly as dependent on the arm targeting speed. But the stalker has other strengths like a massive amount of hardpoints that deal focused fire and can boat weapons like no other. But honestly I feel it's better to keep this discussion to only Highlanders, because that's what I wanted to bring up. How the different Highlanders compare to each other.

Edited by armyof1, 16 April 2013 - 02:44 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

armyof1, on 16 April 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

I recently bought a 3rd Atlas to finally get them mastered and no I don't agree SRMS are fine, they are not good enough for a short-range weapon doing spread damage. SSRMS on the other hand are still quite broken and all hit CT, so because of that they are still dangerous for anything that don't have plenty of CT armor. But since they are totally nullified by ECM it's always a roll of the dice if they'll be useful or not.

What kind of performance are you expecting of them then? You say it's not good enough but don't say why. How much damage would you like them to do without making them OP death sticks at closer ranges?

armyof1, on 16 April 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

As for the other mechs with only torso energy, only the Stalker make sense in this discussion because all the others have way faster torso/turn speed than an Assault and is not nearly as dependant on the arm targetting speed. But the stalker has other strengths like a massive amount of hardpoints that deal focused fire and can boat weapons like no other.

Stalkers are also 5 tons lighter, do not have JJ, and have the worst torso twist in the game. Those hard points come at a price. The other mechs are also very relevant as they all have this problem. Yes they twist/turn faster but that doesn't change the fact they don't have arm swing which is precisely what you are complaining about.

Oh and I somehow had forgotten the Jagermech which not only cannot do arm swing it cannot mount energy weapons on the arms either. I think we will all agree however that it can be a very effective mech.

[armyof1]

TruePoindexter, on 16 April 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

What kind of performance are you expecting of them then? You say it's not good enough but don't say why. How much damage would you like them to do without making them OP death sticks at closer ranges?



Stalkers are also 5 tons lighter, do not have JJ, and have the worst torso twist in the game. Those hard points come at a price. The other mechs are also very relevant as they all have this problem. Yes they twist/turn faster but that doesn't change the fact they don't have arm swing which is precisely what you are complaining about.

Oh and I somehow had forgotten the Jagermech which not only cannot do arm swing it cannot mount energy weapons on the arms either. I think we will all agree however that it can be a very effective mech.

I don't have any exact numbers to give you, but as the devs said I went out with my DDC and tested them out just how they feel compared to before the nerf. And frankly it feels like I'm getting almost halved damage with SRMS and I used to beat laserstalkers in a brawl, now instead I often ended up on the losing side no matter how well I placed my shots or timed my torso twists. It just does not feel right to me that the best brawler version of heaviest assault is the underdog against something 15 ton lighter in an actual brawl.

I know Stalker's strengths come at a price, but really I'm not even sure why we're talking about them? I'm trying to focus on Highlanders here and the different variants of that chassis, could we keep this discussion on topic?

Edited by armyof1, 16 April 2013 - 03:03 PM.

[John MatriX82]

Hmm 3 PPCs+Gauss can be done only on the 732.. And the 733 can be a hell of a skirmisher with all those missiles. The Highlander can be a real hassle with 3LL on the arm, and this is only where the HM is superior.. Even HM pilots won't be using more than 3, sometimes 4 JJs.

No P2W imho..

[Koniving]

Jonathan Paine, on 16 April 2013 - 10:22 AM, said:

Funny, I looked at the AC20 variant and thought "look out DDC, there is a new sheriff in town". Boy will there be pie on my face later today as endless pink Heavy Metal fans destroy my useless mech over and over and over again.

Oh well, at least my mech will be blue!

Actually my honest opinion as a heavy metal owner and someone who has been fighting them is this... The AC-20 one is terrifying to face. It has the same energy count, can carry more PPCs than the Heavy Metal, and carries more streaks and/or SRMs too. I'll tell you right now in a straight-up brawl the AC-20 Highlander wins every time, even if it starts out pre-damaged against a fresh heavy metal.

[TruePoindexter]

armyof1, on 16 April 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

I don't have any exact numbers to give you, but as the devs said I went out with my DDC and tested them out just how they feel compared to before the nerf. And frankly it feels like I'm getting almost halved damage with SRMS and I used to beat laserstalkers in a brawl, now instead I often ended up on the losing side no matter how well I placed my shots or timed my torso twists. It just does not feel right to me that the best brawler version of heaviest assault is the underdog against something 10 ton lighter in an actual brawl.

I know Stalker's strengths come at a price, but really I'm not even sure why we're talking about them? I'm trying to focus on Highlanders here and the different variants of that chassis, could we keep this discussion on topic?

Of course they feel weaker than before because they are weaker than before. That does not make them useless though. They are very deadly and are completely viable. Just don't expect to rip an enemy's side off in a single shot anymore.

As for not being able to stand up to lasers in a brawl isn't that how it's supposed to be? They offer precision firepower allowing them to focus all of their damage to a single spot. SRMs are spread weapons which while dealing overall greater damage should deal less damage to a single area than a directed weapon.

Also 10 tons is not a big difference. 100 vs 90 tons is still in the assault range.

Finally it's completely valid to discuss other mechs when we're talking about a specific mech because we are in fact talking about mechs in general. We can't in one breath say that the Highlanders are terrible for having torso mounted energy weapons but say that other mechs are fine with them without drawing comparisons and conclusions.

[Kaspirikay]

ITT: We learn OP can't adapt.

[Roland]

It's confirmed that the 3PPC+Gauss Highlander says LOLZ at this thread.

[Blackadder]

Mersh21, on 16 April 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

OMG you cant do that!!!! You adapted!!! NOOOOOOOOOO

seriously, this guy makes a very valid point-his build does more damage than my heavy metal and actually has close range defense

you can also fry large animals within 10 feet, so once your done alpha striking down that HM, you can have a tasty bear snack as well.