105 replies to this topic

[Shumabot]

shintakie, on 16 April 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

Doesn't havin a lower arm actuator keep you from puttin a AC/20 in the arm? That seems like a game balance/mechanic thing right there.

And yet jagermechs wear two of them and have full freedom of arm movement. It's as if those actuators HAVE NO IMPACT ON ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU CAN'T EVER UNBEND YOUR STUPID ARMS ANYWAY. There is a syndrome I suspect is very common among the people of this thread.

Edited by Shumabot, 16 April 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Tie Ma]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 16 April 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

Please remove lower arm actuators and hand actuators from my mechs too. Need space for heat sinks and autocannons.
thanks.

you know that massive Gyro that sits in the center torso? can we remove that please at half the turn rate.

[fil5000]

I AM MAD ABOUT ROBOTS AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE

[AgroAlba]

I'm not too jazzed about this, if it's true. Custom mechs hardpoints, whatever, but the minute you fudge a game mechanic to make this work, it does become bothersome. I mean, you already have 3 variants that work within the game rules. Why add a fourth that breaks them?

Edited by AgroAntirrhopus, 16 April 2013 - 01:18 PM.

[Zyllos]

Belorion, on 16 April 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

Actually the lower arm actuator shouldn't be necessary for lateral movement put a splint around your elbow and tell me if you can't move your arm laterally.

Ahh, but those mech arms do not work like a human's arm.

The shoulder actuator is the ball and socket joint, which allows arms to modify their entire orientation to the shoulder (basically, it allows weapon convergence in the arms).

The upper arm actuator is a hinge joint attached to the shoulder actuator which allows the arms to move up/down.

The lower arm actuator is another hinge joint attached to the end of the upper arm section to move the lower arm left/right.

[Tie Ma]

Zyllos, on 16 April 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Ahh, but those mech arms do not work like a human's arm.

The shoulder actuator is the ball and socket joint, which allows arms to modify their entire orientation to the shoulder (basically, it allows weapon convergence in the arms).

The upper arm actuator is a hinge joint attached to the shoulder actuator which allows the arms to move up/down.

The lower arm actuator is another hinge joint attached to the end of the upper arm section to move the lower arm left/right.

in game theres a shoulder actuator. that in theory should be a ball and socket deal. (or maybe just interal/external rotation)

but we have set a precedent in this game; that all mechs with 2 actuators cannot move their arms laterally. And that all AC10s do 10 damage all PPCs do 10 damage and so on.

Edited by Tie Ma, 16 April 2013 - 01:31 PM.

[Shumabot]

Zyllos, on 16 April 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

Ahh, but those mech arms do not work like a human's arm.

The shoulder actuator is the ball and socket joint, which allows arms to modify their entire orientation to the shoulder (basically, it allows weapon convergence in the arms).

The upper arm actuator is a hinge joint attached to the shoulder actuator which allows the arms to move up/down.

The lower arm actuator is another hinge joint attached to the end of the upper arm section to move the lower arm left/right.

None of these mech arms work like human arms. last I checked humans elbows weren't welded permanently bent at 90 degrees.

[Bagheera]

Shumabot, on 16 April 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

And yet jagermechs wear two of them and have full freedom of arm movement. It's as if those actuators HAVE NO IMPACT ON ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU CAN'T EVER UNBEND YOUR STUPID ARMS ANYWAY. There is a syndrome I suspect is very common among the people of this thread.

Bro, do you even mech?

Jager arms have precisely 0 lateral movement. Just like every other arm in the game which can accommodate an AC20, prior to whatever highlander the OP is talking about. It's been this way since 1984.

[Khanahar]

Okay, in theory, I agree, as I'm sure PGI does, that a 3 reticle solution is the long term objective.

However, in the mean time, we can remember that in MWO, just because something doesn't have an actuator doesn't mean it can't angulate. You think AC/20 Jags would be worth a thing if they couldn't converge on a target with magical non-actuator arm movement?

The 10% is maybe (lore-ish-wise) the engineers figuring out how to get a tiny bit extra out of the convergence play.

[Jabilo]

Should have been 3 reticles. If people can not handle them they can lock the arms.

[Zyllos]

Jabilo, on 16 April 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Should have been 3 reticles. If people can not handle them they can lock the arms.

I agree with this statement.

That was the point of arm lock. Can't handle it, lock it.

[Shumabot]

Bagheera, on 16 April 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Bro, do you even mech?

Jager arms have precisely 0 lateral movement. Just like every other arm in the game which can accommodate an AC20, prior to whatever highlander the OP is talking about. It's been this way since 1984.

And yet they move on the model. The Jenner doesn't have lower arm actuators and absolutely has lateral movement on its arm weapons. This isn't unprecedented, only on mechs that have "arms". Either way, game balance doesn't take this stuff into account and most of the games best mechs don't have arms. This is just obsessive neckbearding taken to a new level.

Edited by Shumabot, 16 April 2013 - 01:59 PM.

[Tie Ma]

Shumabot, on 16 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

And yet they move on the model. The Jenner doesn't have lower arm actuators and absolutely has lateral movement on its arm weapons. This isn't unprecedented, only on mechs that have "arms".

when was the last time you played a jenner catapult Raven etc.

Edited by Tie Ma, 16 April 2013 - 01:58 PM.

[Bagheera]

Shumabot, on 16 April 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

And yet they move on the model.

Which has no bearing on how they aim. Not vested in the debate over the HGN, personally, but there's no use spewing misinformation about the mechs in the game.

Edited by Bagheera, 16 April 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[Shumabot]

Tie Ma, on 16 April 2013 - 01:58 PM, said:

when was the last time you played a jenner catapult Raven etc.

Yesterday.



Look at that reticule dance all over the screen.

Quote

Which has no bearing on how they aim. Not vested in the debate over the HGN, personally, but there's no use spewing misinformation about the mechs in the game.

If it couldn't move because "reasons" then it couldn't move. But it moves, ergo those "reasons" are worthless. You're using 30 year old fluff justifications written by people who couldn't understand how a wheel works to justify specially coding a single variant of a single mech. Given the ludicrous number of things that are legitimately broken with this game that is the stupidest thing I've heard today.

[LordBraxton]

lateral is for left arm only

[Tie Ma]

Shumabot, on 16 April 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Yesterday.



Look at that reticule dance all over the screen.



If it couldn't move because "reasons" then it couldn't move. But it moves, ergo those "reasons" are worthless. You're using 30 year old fluff justifications written by people who couldn't understand how a wheel works to justify specially coding a single variant of a single mech. Given the ludicrous number of things that are legitimately broken with this game that is the stupidest thing I've heard today.

play your jenner again.

[DubBucket]

Uh.. Sorry Shum, but you're all kinds of wrong on this one.

[syngyne]

Shumabot, on 16 April 2013 - 01:16 PM, said:

And yet jagermechs wear two of them and have full freedom of arm movement. It's as if those actuators HAVE NO IMPACT ON ANYTHING BECAUSE YOU CAN'T EVER UNBEND YOUR STUPID ARMS ANYWAY. There is a syndrome I suspect is very common among the people of this thread.

...Jagermechs definitely don't have full freedom of arm movement. They have full vertical movement, but their lateral movement is most definitely locked to the torso.

I think it's pretty much what someone else said earlier... the Highlander is a weird case where you have both arms able to mount weapons, but one of them is missing a lower arm actuator. Rather than allow both arms full lateral movement or restrict it completely, they compromised.

Edit: in regards to the Jenner video, 'Mechs with no lower arm actuators used to act like that before the most recent patch. The torso reticle would sort of drag the arm reticle after it, but you couldn't really move your arms side to side at all. Worked that way on my YLW and Catapults. Since the most recent patch, though, they've tightened it up and the arm reticle stays centered horizontally if you don't have lower arm actuators.

Edited by syngyne, 16 April 2013 - 02:17 PM.

[Tie Ma]

Khanahar, on 16 April 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Okay, in theory, I agree, as I'm sure PGI does, that a 3 reticle solution is the long term objective. However, in the mean time, we can remember that in MWO, just because something doesn't have an actuator doesn't mean it can't angulate. You think AC/20 Jags would be worth a thing if they couldn't converge on a target with magical non-actuator arm movement? The 10% is maybe (lore-ish-wise) the engineers figuring out how to get a tiny bit extra out of the convergence play.

convergence is covered by the shoulder actuators. but as the game is right now. the shoulder actuators only move laterally maybe at maximum 5*

or else we'd have jagermechs' arms popin out of their sockets.


the greater range of motion covered by other mechs is due to the lower actuators. and the upper actuators move arms up and down.

Edited by Tie Ma, 16 April 2013 - 02:15 PM.