114 replies to this topic

[Liquid Leopard]

Everyone seems to agree that the Pretty Baby isn't worth the usual 6000 MC. For 4200 MC is it a decent buy? (Knowing it's even slower than what I'm used to.)
Does the XL engine get an Awesome killed faster? Do I need to substitute a standard engine to make it last?

[PaladinXIII]

First off, I would like to say welcome,

As said earlier, teamwork wins the day, not one mech. I think with your Catapult build it would work better assisting an assault mech or staying with the main group. Keeping the missile flaps closed gives a slight damage reduction but delays firing. With the Catapult is very important to learn how to open and close the flaps when needed as closing the flaps while torso twisting can help mitigate damage. Also look back in a few weeks as I believe they will be rolling back or restating missile damage, it might be something for you to try out.

I do not own any catapults but from game experience I can say that Catapults and Stalkers are more likely to be cored because of their shape and size of their hit boxes. With the K2 you can choose to carry large energy weapons in the arms, some choose large lasers, other choose PPCs, each have their pros and cons; or you can mount some ballistics on the K2 which has lead to interesting builds.

The A1 was notorious for carrying 6SRM6s which was devastating but because of missile changes, they're not as common. The A1 is unique because it only carries missiles which allows for it carry 6 launchers some choose SRM only, others choose LRM only and some mix and match. The downside to the A1 is the fact that all of its weapons are in its arms and it realies on ammo, so if the arms are blown off or you run out of ammo, there is little else for you to do. The C4 is more focused on missiles than the C1 but it still carries the 2 energy hardpoints as back up.

As far as other mechs you might want, try to see what is available as trial mechs, they are only the stock variant and aren't always the best, but they can give you an idea of how that mech type functions, also find out what style you like to play, some players like to brawl other like to support with ballistic and missiles, and some like speeding around to scout and harass. Finding out how you like to play will help you find a mech that fits that role. Finally, when you decide on a mech look at the long term, some of these mechs are better when elite status is unlocked so that means investing in at least 2 more variants in both c-bills and time.

Liquid Leopard, on 19 April 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

I have a 300 (standard) right now. XL is quite expensive. You guys aren't getting killed faster because of it? (I have a bit of a phobia, here.)

XLs are the double-edge choice here, XLs can allow you to carry more weapons, ammo, or armor, if available or you can get a larger XL engine for the STD weight meaning you can go faster in speed and torso twist. The downfall of course is the side torso exposure but learning how to mitigate that is also key. Find out where most damage to your side torsos come from and know how much armor needs to go in the front and in the back.

I run Centurion D (CN9-D) which comes with an XL 300. With speed tweak it travels 102.6kph which while not the fastest speed, allows for it run quickly around mechs and to use cover, and while not the best for brawling it can stand for a while as long as there is room to run, but it excels when it fights in a group.

[FireSlade]

Yes as Palidin stated the XL is a double edge sword. From my experience with the other MW titles I learned about spreading damage so I don't notice too much of going down faster with the XL other than the occasional lucky shot. and yes the XLs are expensive I usually sell the standards in order to reduce the price but 700k only goes so far with a 5mil engine. The bonus to running one is half the weight so you can add a bigger engine or more weapons. With some playing around you can get by with my design using a standard engine but the lack of speed means slower turn rate and you get flanked easier. For the second and third Catapult I just suffered through the stock C4 design with a couple upgrades, and the stock K2 minus the MGs which are a waste of slots and weight at the moment. The K2 packs a punch but you'll need to upgrade the heatsinks and remember that the PPC (not the ER version) doesn't do any damage under 90 meters. I've seen some where they use 4 Large Lasers instead of 2 Med. Lasers and PPCs which is no laughing matter when up against but I hate the lack of barrels on the arms with the Large Lasers. Also to see if the missile doors are open, on the right hand A pillar is a small green/yellow light that indicates the doors position. I believe green means that they are closed and yellow means that they are open but I could be wrong. Good luck with your choices.

[Viperion]

Hi

It puts a smile on my face, when i see some want to know about catas.

I personal drive the Cata K2 which is my specialty.

however as many have pointed out, that XL engine is a double-edge sword. However remember that side torso'***** box is are bit smaller compared to other mechs so there's the benefits for a cata to carry a XL engine.

there are few things about mentality for a Cata pilot.

- positions : knowing where to position yourself while your have a quick getaway to your comrades.

- tactical awareness: knowing where the enemies are (considering your are carry a XL engine or determined by threat levels)

- tactical environment: Use the environment for whats worth, that would keep you alive.

- Speed: despite Cata is heavy, be able to run over 70 kp/h is a blessing which helps you to stay alive and remember NEVER RUN STRAIGHT vs a enemy, rather sideways or zig zagging.

I'm sure some of it are repeated but if you read it and get all that again and again in diverse post in your thread, means that we hope to get that in your skull.

You are welcome to add me at your friend list.
im ready to help a fellow FRR friend.

[Liquid Leopard]

FireSlade, on 19 April 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

...Also to see if the missile doors are open, on the right hand A pillar is a small green/yellow light that indicates the doors position. I believe green means that they are closed and yellow means that they are open but I could be wrong. Good luck with your choices.

I see it now! Thx!

[Liquid Leopard]

I gave in to temptation and got a Catapult K2. I spent almost all of my C-Bills on it, so it stayed stock for a while. Good practice, right?
I named it with the Icelandic word for lightning, "Eldingar".

It forces me to practice avoiding brawls, so I had a higher survival rate for a while there. I think this relates to the terrain and threat awareness that you all speak of.

Over the weekend it got me a lot of damage scores in the 100-point range, but I had one particularly good match with 350+ damage and a kill. Yesterday and today, I seemed to suck again.

It still sucks to be everyone’s b!+ch when (not "if") the enemy gets close. So, it had to get double heat sinks and ER-PPCs eventually.

Thanks to all your inputs, I’ve picked the K2, and decided the next one will probably be a Catapult C4. The build I want to try on the C4 will have LRM-15s for support (main role). When someone gets up close, or when ECM has nerfed my missiles, I’ll have some SRM "rocket shotguns". I’ll name it with the Norse word for smoke, "Reykja".

While I grind away for the C-Bills and XP I want for my Catapults, part of my brain still wants to plan for the next mech after them…

Edited by Liquid Leopard, 23 April 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[Malzel]

Lot of good advice in here. The C4's a solid chassis. You don't see it as much as the other over-specialized builds, but I prefer a balanced build that can be useful in any situation over a specialist who can be completely useless in the wrong situation.

Something I'd elaborate on is sticking with the team, even if they seem like chickens with their heads cut off. FireSlade (I think) specifically mentions finding a brawling partner, but I'd make sure you're within 1-200 meters of a teammate at all times. That helps when you turn the corner and find the other guys, just reverse throttle and suddenly you're surrounded by friends.

Of course, if you're looking for friends, you can always check out the community-run TeamSpeak3 server at na1.mech-connect.net (Password: WordofBlake). Usually a lot of people there, so you can hop on with a mic and find a group to work with for the night. Just having a group of 4 of you, even if you're all new, will drastically improve your odds as the 4 of you can communicate, stick together, and focus fire on a single target to bring it down quicker.

Most MWO players there are pretty chill and welcoming, you should check it out.

[FireSlade]

Thanks Malzel but I cannot take the credit for that one Lan was the one that mentioned it

Lan, on 17 April 2013 - 04:00 AM, said:

Getting a brawlerbuddy
I don't know if you drop with someone but if you get a buddy on VOIP, you increase your chances of winning and surviving. A support lrm/LL together with a heavy or assault is a good combo. Add a third for scout or anti-light and you get intel fast. I drop mostly with four mechs consisting of assault, heavy/med support and two lights. Always one light.

Also Malzel is absolutely correct about staying with the pack. Since LRMs are mostly support I try to stay 100 meters or so behind them so I can assist with taking out what they are shooting at. Congratulations on your choice picking the K2, Liquid Leopard. I have been using the past week myself trying to get the Elite skills that I have on my C1. Starting out with the K2 you will want something like this if you keep the PPCs
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...376b5e27752adf5
The ERPPCs run a lot hotter than PPCs but with them you can shoot things under 90 meters plus your max range will be 1620 meters. When you can afford it something like this will be more fun
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a2bef3438b09a5d
The XL engine will run you 4,900,000 cbills but the weight savings and speed will be worth it. I added machine guns, even though they do not do much now, as place fillers and in case they become better though the 2 tons could go to replacing the medium lasers with medium pulse lasers. With that design heat is very manageable for me and when I hit 70% heat I toggle chain fire for the PPCs until my heat goes down and the medium lasers alone are heat neutral. An important skill to learn is poking your head slightly above a hill and sniping without exposing too much of your profile. Then after you get your shot off reverse back down and do it again in a different spot. Works wonders. Good luck out there.

Also for the weapon doors being opened or closed indicator I messed up Yellow = Closed and Green = Open. I figured that I would clear that up before anyone becomes confused.

[Liquid Leopard]

I was spectating (after being surrounded and beaten up at short range) and saw a K2 pilot win a game almost single-handedly. I think he went by "Alochnar". (Any of you know him/her?)

He was the last guy standing on my team, and there were 4 enemies left. He mopped them up with ER-PPCs, medium lasers, and MGs.

The view swerved spastically as the Catapult ran around, often in semicircles, at 82km/hr. That’s max engine and a speed tweak, right?

Kills included a Jagermech, an Atlas, and I can’t remember what else.

This player is pretty much my hero.

[TOOON]

I didn't read through most posts or yours entirely.

Here is my opinion and mine only.
I feel I am a rather accomplished player. Infact I think you were in a match with me tonight when I had 6 kills in the match. I've done it twice tonight and your name rings a bell.

I don't use nor like XL engines.
Use an XL against someone like me that aims at the same spot over and over and I will kill you lightning fast no matter what mech you are in.

My philosophy on XL's is kind of like the Centurion mechs. ZOMBIE mechs ! Standard engine and those things are a pain to kill as they can lose both torso's and the way it's body is setup damage is spread over most of the torso.

XL engine makes you fast. Able to turn quicker , more agility !
It almost makes you die way fast as you lose a torso and you are dead. Game over.

As for as what mech to use?

I myself prefer heavies with the occasional medium.

I usually can do minimum of 400-450 a match in my Jaeger. Now if I get a bad team and I get focused fire it's all over.
With a Jaeger using a standard engine I've reached 923 dmg before. My high's for most matches when I am on a roll is in the 700's on a consistant basis.

I've used various weapon load outs and achieved close to my peak results.

Point of all that is , it's not always the mech , nor your weapon loadout.
Common sense and skill do come into play and I think are the biggest factors though.

Don't stand still. I can't count how many times I watch mechs of all sizes just stand there and fire in the middle of a brawl.
Head shot , delay headshot - dead . Thanks for standing still !

Always keep moving. Run circles , use cover, point is always move.

As for mechs

Hunchbacks I love , just dont play one anymore. Used to run in a hunch wolfpack prior to engine patch and loved it. Never been the same for me afterwards.

Word of advice on the hunchies. Let's say it has 8 laser slots? That doesn't mean you have to fill all of them.

Too many times people feel they have to have all this massive firepower , with little heat correcting.

Catapult- Many good varients

I run 2 different variants on my founders cat.
3 large lasers and Streaks I think? You'd be surprised at your dmg

2 large lasers , 2 med lasers and 2 srm 6 - Again stick and move

Jaeger - HATED THIS MECH ! Than I learned the nuances of it and it's the only one I will really use anymore.

Centurion - Great mech ! Just need to find a setup that works for you.

Assaults - I don't play assaults . Too slow for me and in my mind speed kills. Don't think so? Ask all the atlas pilots I beat 1v1 with headshots to the front and back of the head.

Dragon - I mainly played a Dragon and Dragon only for a long time. Great mech and very versatile. Just know it's role ! Learn proper weapon setups and know that a Dragon's greatest strength is it's mobility.

I could go on and on but this is already turning into a novel.

All mechs can be bonified killers.

Learn proper mech setup.
I do not use any cookie cutter templates.
I know my playstyle so when I get a mech I tinker a few matches and figure out what I like or don't like and build off that.
I know what weapons I like to use and understand their trajectory and nuances so I build on those fundamentals.

Learn to aim. Sounds like a no brainer right? Have you spectated many players? HORRIBLE.
I tend to aim for a spot on my first salvo, from there I try to aim specifically for that initial area.

Stick and move. Core of my philosophy.

I play a Jaeger mech and got 6 kills twice today , one 5 kill , like 5 4 kills and numerous 3's.
Am I a great player? I don't know. I just know I try and break a match down into a very basic form. I try to follow the action and focus fire as that always helps. More people shooting same target the faster it dies.
beating a dead horse. STICK AND MOVE and use cover if able. I don't snipe. I am an all in balls to the walls kind of guy. I don't like these noob pop tarts or these noob phracts who just sit back and shoot their ppc's. I don't use them and out do them every single match,
Just learn a play style that works for you. Learn the nuances of your mech , the weapons , the maps

Honestly , practice makes perfect.

Left my clan 4-5 months ago and have been straight pugs every single day. YTou have to learn how to work with a different crew every match so find what works for you so you can exploit it.


long winded I know but there is more to this game than left mnouse and right mouse. Just trying to give you some advice I implement and hopefully it helps you.


See you on the battlefield

TOOON

[Lan]

Not familiar with the name but sounds like a nice pilot. As for the speed, 86 should be the max engine (315 + speed tweak) I believe.

The swerving move is probably that pilot trying to distribute damage across his torso (common move among smart pilots).

[TOOON]

What LAN just said.

Some mechs have a dead arm and a lot of pilots use it as a shield.

I know when my torso's are blazing red I try and absorb dmg on the side that is least damaged.

Stick and Move !

Exactly what LAn said.

[Liquid Leopard]

TOOON, on 24 April 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

I didn't read through most posts or yours entirely.

Here is my opinion and mine only.

I feel I am a rather accomplished player. In fact I think you were in a match with me tonight when I had 6 kills in the match. I've done it twice tonight and your name rings a bell.

I don't use nor like XL engines...

Yes...I don't think you killed me, specifically, but I remember a lot of "TOOON killed this guy...TOOON killed that guy".

I was skeptical of XL engines, but right now the overwhelming factor is economics. They're f-ing expensive, and it seems like I can't do much of anything with the million C-Bills I have right now.

I can't afford the 300 std I want. For the price of a 300XL, I could buy a Catapult C4 and have my third variant.

My previous MechWarrior game was MW2, and I remembered not to stand still in the open. So, when somebody gets in close, I go to full throttle and usually get into a circling fight. Several games last night I came around a corner and had 5 enemies shooting at me, and circling full throttle in a stock-engine Fatapult only helps so much.

With 20/20 hindsight, I know I shouldn't have gone around that corner. Once I was spectating, I think my teammates mostly went around the same corner, one at a time. Doh!

...And my aim is pretty bad. It's worse when I'm moving, and worse still if the target is moving. It still seems like everyone can core out a Catapult but me. I can't hit a light mech with energy weapons, EVER. My kills against them have been with missiles, so I particularly hate the ECM Ravens and such that keep showing up.

If I'm spectating from a Raven, Spider, Cicada, I can't tell how the heck the player hits a target. I can't follow what they're doing. I learn more spectating from heavy mechs.

[Lan]

Liquid Leopard, on 25 April 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

...

My previous MechWarrior game was MW2, and I remembered not to stand still in the open. So, when somebody gets in close, I go to full throttle and usually get into a circling fight. Several games last night I came around a corner and had 5 enemies shooting at me, and circling full throttle in a stock-engine Fatapult only helps so much.

With 20/20 hindsight, I know I shouldn't have gone around that corner. Once I was spectating, I think my teammates mostly went around the same corner, one at a time. Doh!

...And my aim is pretty bad. It's worse when I'm moving, and worse still if the target is moving. It still seems like everyone can core out a Catapult but me. I can't hit a light mech with energy weapons, EVER. My kills against them have been with missiles, so I particularly hate the ECM Ravens and such that keep showing up.

If I'm spectating from a Raven, Spider, Cicada, I can't tell how the heck the player hits a target. I can't follow what they're doing. I learn more spectating from heavy mechs.

Targeting can be difficult, especially at first. There's a lot going on. Here's the factors:

• Your speed and direction
  
• Target speed and direction
  
• Elevation changes
  
• Static or mobile objects (other mechs)
  
• Traveltime of shot (ballistics)
  
• Exposure to shot (lasers)

1 & 2, You control your speed and direction, make sure you take your shots and anticipate the change in your direction and his. Plan ahead (situational awareness) and take the shot when and he are in a predictable motion. It's kind of like the old style ship vs ship battle on the high seas, they usuall had to wait for the waves to crest for max range and stability. Hold the shot a microsecond longer and time it.


3, Again, you have the ability most of the time to plan where the fight is going to take place. Don't go places where elevation will be a problem for you. Sometimes it can work very well for you and cause the enemies shot to miss. If in a light mech with good elevation on the guns, I always fight with a hillside closeby so I can run up and down when and if I choose to at my varied angle. Compensate for your elevation and your targets (map & situational awareness)

4, Objects should be your shield, not his. Time it to when you need to cool down or if he suddenly gets buddies. Then duck down behind that thing. Knowing where the objects or obstacles can save your life, prolong it in a firefight or allow a quick exit (map and situational awareness). Run around the training grounds a bit or just grind the game until you know the maps.

5, If using ballistics (PPC is energy but behaves as ballistic) there's all that about leading your target at different ranges, aim is something you will have to grind to get. However, your advantage with PPC's (specially ER ones) is range. Do not get within 800 of a enemy mech. You are effective, he is not. If you get to 450 or 250 you are within kill range of a brawler. Go lone ranger and go wide rather then alone up close around hills you can't see. Patience is your friend. With ER's you can go close but you do not have the damage output that a pure brawler has. A dual PPC cat does 20 on the main guns at any range. A brawler does 50-70 below 250m but is not effective beyond that or maybe 450. He does nothing at 800 or beyond. Even if it takes some travel time to hit, it is far easier to hit even small things at range then when they are buzzing at your heels. Chainfire is your friend to finding the range and shoot accurately. Use the first PPC shot as a rangefinder, then hit with the second and track from that.

6, If using lasers, it's all about keeping them on target (or even on bodypart) to deliver the full damage. Lasers can take a second or more to deliver their full damage. You sometimes see Spider pilots twich like mad trying to distribute damage evenly. It's all training my friend, that and keeping all the factors above in mind when maneuvering.

Good luck!

Edited by Lan, 25 April 2013 - 03:34 AM.

[Prezimonto]

The C1 build I like most right now is:
2ppc's
2 medium lasers
2 srm6 (artemis)(2 tons ammo, drop/don't get artemis and you get more ammo, but will hit for more scattered damage)
dhs
endosteel
max armor on everything but the legs and fill up the torsos with DHS's.

It's got good medium and short range punch, 3 weapon groups, 2 of which are for short range and roughly equal in effectiveness. It runs a little hot on Desert and Valley, but if you just stop firing and back out for a few seconds you'll drop your heat quickly.

[Liquid Leopard]

Do better graphics make it easier to hit a target? Like, when the target is a dark object with a dark background in the Forest colony? At a distance I often have a hard time making out the outline of whoever is shooting at me, and the red square around them is HUGE, so just shooting the square is useless. I currently have to play with my System Specifications turned all the way down. If I turn them up, could it help me suck less?

[TOOON]

You use the zoom option on your mech? Think it's middle mouse/wheel button by default?

[Zerberus]

TO the original question: something cheap like a commando. Why invest tons of money in something that the clans are going to blow halfway across the solar system in a few months

Says the player who`s commando is worth IIRC almost 8 million (or I was drunk an clicked on an atlas) when sold at a 50% loss, lol.

Edited by Zerberus, 26 April 2013 - 04:51 PM.

[FireSlade]

I run everything on low since I'm running an Intel 4000 laptop graphics card. Sniping with the 3x zoom is going to be your best bet. Using better graphic settings is only going to lower your frames per second which will cause you to miss due to not having 100% real time visuals. We stop seeing the clipping the closer you are to 60fps which is a good base and the faster the better. If you are using the advanced zoom nothing will help. The game engine can only draw 1 scene in high definition at a time without overloading the graphics cards so you get a version of the scene zoomed in but its like looking at a screen with a magnifying glass instead of a detailed zoom window. If they dump the PIP then it would work since it does with the 1.5x and 3.0x zoom. Unfortunately you are going to have to practice picking out small details and using trial and error to do it.

[Lan]

Liquid Leopard, on 26 April 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

Do better graphics make it easier to hit a target? Like, when the target is a dark object with a dark background in the Forest colony? At a distance I often have a hard time making out the outline of whoever is shooting at me, and the red square around them is HUGE, so just shooting the square is useless. I currently have to play with my System Specifications turned all the way down. If I turn them up, could it help me suck less?

Don't know actually, I'll do some searching and try to find out but to be honest that's not a trick I'm too concerned with personally. I value my immersion more (though admittedly I do not have a issue hitting things with my CF7970's) and cannot wait for proper Eyefinity 5760x1080 and TrackIR support.

On a sidenote, I'm pretty stunned I'm getting likes for that second post. That advice wasn't epic, IMHO - just some common sense. Nice that it is appreciated though.