273 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

err

If I am to make a mistake, I want to make it as close to balanced as possible. If that ruins the game then so be it.

As to your final comment, I agree, we have dissimilar opinion of balance. and that is fine. No two people think and feel exactly alike.

[Jam the Bam]

I reckon it will die away a bit once everyone gets over the highlander excitement and realises that as poptarts go they aren't really that effective, hopefully its just a phase (fingers crossed).

I've got a highlander too (2 of em) and they make mean brawlers. Just want to get in peoples faces and shoot em.

[Zaptruder]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

err

If I am to make a mistake, I want to make it as close to balanced as possible. If that ruins the game then so be it.

As to your final comment, I agree, we have dissimilar opinion of balance. and that is fine. No two people think and feel exactly alike.

I don't know why you linked the dictionary man... because quite clearly the dictionary is supporting me in this semantic hogwash battle. To err is to make a mistake. You don't err on target - that's just called succeeding.

And I can't even begin to fathom a scenario where having properly balanced weapons such that every piece of item has its use and place in the game can be considered to be game ruining.

Maybe for people that really really really like jump snipe online, to the absolute exclusion of even *seeing* people use anything but jump snipers...

But then I'd hope those are a crazy minority that shouldn't be catered for anyway.

Edited by Zaptruder, 17 April 2013 - 05:24 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zaptruder, on 17 April 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

I don't know why you linked the dictionary man... because quite clearly the dictionary is supporting me in this semantic hogwash battle. To err is to make a mistake. You don't err on target - that's just called succeeding.

Yup. To err on the side of safety is the same as I just did. If I make something safe.

This

Some folks just miss the forest for the trees.

[Taemien]

The problem with people like the OP is they never took my advice over the last couple of months. Do NOT charge into the grand melee. Before PPCs and Gauss were worth a salt (well against lights), players would very frequently get into 8v8 brawls. Throwing skill to the wind, they would rely on chance to see them through. Some took advantage of this and took A1s with 6SRM6s. Some took Catapults with AC20s. Some thought they'd be slick and use AC20s on Jagermechs.

But what became apparent when the netcode was fixed is how useful PPCs and Gauss actually were and to a lesser extent, Large Lasers. Now everyone is using them and instead of throwing things to chance and having a better than even chance of coming out on top in a under 200m engagement. They are getting hit at long range by something other than missiles.

Adaptation has been something this community hasn't really been capable of doing aside from using what they believe is the FOTM. Therefor seeing no other alternative other then to join them, which they may or may not be able to do (in the case of the OP its doesn't matter whether they can or not, they believe they cannot and what they believe is all that matters, at least through their eyes). They instead decide to make a post, hoping the devs will see their supposed plight and step in.

I think this community is insane. They keep doing the same thing every patch cycle and expecting different results. But I'll leave it alone. The point there is the devs won't fix this unless there is a problem. And quite frankly, there isn't a problem.

My tactics since Closed Beta, well actually probably since 2002, has remained the same. The only thing that has changed patch to patch, with the inclusion of new assets is the prioritization of targets. What has always seen me through is superior piloting and communications. And of course not taking a wrong turn into 4-5+ angry mechs that tends to happen from time to time.

This hasn't changed. And close range does work. I've always been able to pull it off and with players using the weapons they are now, its only gotten easier. I don't have to worry about grouped up brawlers anymore so I can pick off targets fast and efficiently.

But one thing I have seen constantly used is people solo queuing with Brawling configs. Why do you do this to yourself? Did you think that one through? I mean that is akin to taking missiles and expecting people to spot and tag for you when you don't have a group. Expecting the PUG to do anything other than PUG things is just taking medicine to GIVE yourself a headache. So why do you all do this? You need to understand this:

The PUG will not support you.
The PUG will not help you.
The PUG will not spot for you.
The PUG will not run with you.
The PUG will not coordinate with you.
The PUG will not manager their heat.
The PUG will overheat.
The PUG will override and kill themselves.
The PUG will die and die fast.
The PUG will shoot you in the back.
The PUG will use 4x Mguns on Spiders... and non-Spiders.
The PUG will charge in and die.
The PUG will disconnect.
The PUG will go AFK.
The PUG will fire weapons beyond max range.
The PUG will run off the map and suicide.
The PUG will do all the other PUG things that PUGs do.

But as I said before. Never blame the PUG. They are the PUG and do not know any better. They are to be tolerated. You are to be gracious to the PUG when they do non-PUG things. Because know this. "They will be what they will be. They are what they are. They have been what they always have been. They are the PUG." Remember that. Account for it. And you will enjoy your experience in MWO, alot more when you accept that.

[Silentium]

90% of the games I played since patch were sniper duels. There were a few close ones, but not much brawling that I saw. When they are all blobbed up it is really tough.

The only match where we really kicked *** was one where we made them come to us. I kept an eye on their movement, which probably drew them in, as I would pop-tart to spot them really quick. The rest of the team patiently waited under cover, and stayed there blasting them every time they crested the ridge.

This was one game out of 15 though, the rest of the time we played the sniper game and lost badly.

[Zaptruder]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2013 - 05:25 AM, said:

Yup. To err on the side of safety is the same as I just did. If I make something safe.

This

Some folks just miss the forest for the trees.

Forget it Mallan. Go pick up a book and learn some english yourself. Don't harass me with your wrongness until I explain the proper usage of err 6 ways from sunday.

Giving your point of view charity (look up argumentative charity); you're essentially saying, screw erring, just get it right. Which is all fine and dandy, except it doesn't really say much other than: "I want it to be perfect! And I want it yesterday!"

Spoiler

Which generally means you're bratty and overentitled.

[MeiSooHaityu]

All I have to say to the OP is....So? *Shrug*

Gauss and PPCs are powerful weapons and if you have the ability ro aim them and use them effectively, then go for it. This game should have more to it than just lasers.

Matter of fact, PGI reduced the sight range of thermal vision and I think that did a lot to curb sniping.

This game can't just be lasers.

[Disapirro]

I still enjoy the game with all its flaws. It is changing and will change again.

[Badconduct]

Man...

It's like

Every time a new mech comes out, people use it with the best weapon combo...

[Zyllos]

This entire thread reeks of a problem I have been talking about since before closed beta...weapon convergence.

If all those weapons being fired at the same time ended up hitting different areas (not because of a RNG, but because their physical location dictates where they aim in relation to the crosshair), all of these poptarts and snipers would not be reigning supreme. But the brawl would also not be the best bet either.

You can easily see there are convergence issues because the CT is almost the only thing that takes out mechs anymore. You rarely see, if ever, missing arms/legs before a mech is taken out. LT/RT is the only other target worth taking out.

There has to be some type of balance between alpha strikes and group firing.

Edited by Zyllos, 17 April 2013 - 05:56 AM.

[PropagandaWar]

Ravens joined in the jump fest so I don't see the problem lol. Im still runnin in my regular non any of the above mechs. Only encountered 2 jump groups last night in 8-man (that was fun). The whole jump thing has me perplexed, but people do what they do. Raise the ppc heat back up a bit add a tad more to lrms.... wait this is all about range. Crap. I cant complain. On a serious note devs need to put jjs back where they were, call it a day. One quick question though. How do four ppcs core a phract with 70ish armor on the first shot? Yeah that's what im talkin about.

Edited by PropagandaWar, 17 April 2013 - 05:59 AM.

[Atma Erebus]

I'm certainly not advocating that we go back to LRM hell, but LRMs need to reach a balance point where entire teams can't just ignore them and stand in the open, which happens often.

As a common example:
Four guys can sit in the open on a spire in Tormaline and see everything within at least kilometer. Direct fire can't hit them, but they can see between the crystals in all directions while poptarting up to alpha one at a time. You can't approach them without climbing the spire, which entails advancing 1km under constant fire (there is no cover from snipers that high up) and then killing whoever's at the bottom while still being sniped from above. (And no, you can't cap because all approaches to the base, and the base itself, are within view of the spire). There are many other examples of this strategy on other maps, I'm sure someone will poke hole in this example, but it illustrates a point.

This wouldn't be a problem if LRMs were a real threat. No one would be dumb enough to put four people in the open with no cover whatsoever. As it is now, I doubt 1000 LRMs would do enough damage to kill more than one of those four snipers, even if none of them had AMS. As it is, your only option is to advance in the open under heavy fire from above or sit back and snipe at the poptarts, thus perpetuating the problem.


Basically, I'm saying that LRMs got nerfed too hard (not that I wasn't happy to watch the LRM boats cry at the time). Without a threat to counter ranged direct fire it takes extreme skill to overcome even an average team without using identical tactics. I'm sure the happy medium is there, but it hasn't been found yet.

[Joseph Mallan]

Zaptruder, on 17 April 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Forget it Mallan. Go pick up a book and learn some english yourself. Don't harass me with your wrongness until I explain the proper usage of err 6 ways from sunday.

Giving your point of view charity (look up argumentative charity); you're essentially saying, screw erring, just get it right. Which is all fine and dandy, except it doesn't really say much other than: "I want it to be perfect! And I want it yesterday!"

Spoiler

Which generally means you're bratty and overentitled.

Isn't 'err on the side of caution' just saying you are 'being very careful?' It is an saying older than all of us! To 'Err on the side of Balance' would be doing everything possible to make no play style dominant. You are just fixating on one word not the meaning of the sentence.

Quote

err on the side of something

to choose an action that may be too extreme If we're not sure what's needed, let's err on the side of being too prepared.

Usage notes: usually used in the form err on the side of cautionI decided to err on the side of caution and spend less than my full allowance.

I am using the phrase exactly as it is intended.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 April 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[xZaOx]

It's funny even ravens and cicada's are carrying ppc's. To solve this they need to fix LRM and SRM's. I miss brawling.

[3rdworld]

This is the logical result when the 2 best weapons in the game are long range direct fire weapons.

And it didn't take a moron to know what would happen when you put an extra torso energy hardpoint on the 732.

If PGI didn't see this coming.....

Oh and you institute coolant flush Cool Shot.

Edited by 3rdworld, 17 April 2013 - 06:09 AM.

[Nik Reaper]

xZaOx, on 17 April 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

It's funny even ravens and cicada's are carrying ppc's. To solve this they need to fix LRM and SRM's. I miss brawling.

Supposedly it's coming in May... so another 2-3 weeks of sniperfest.

[Sheraf]

This is what you get when LRM gone

[Joseph Mallan]

xZaOx, on 17 April 2013 - 06:00 AM, said:

It's funny even ravens and cicada's are carrying ppc's. To solve this they need to fix LRM and SRM's. I miss brawling.

Raven=Panther
Cicada=... Well there weren't any 40 tonners that carried PPCs at this time frame IIRC.

[Arctourus]

Bagheera, on 16 April 2013 - 09:05 PM, said:

Lasher < Jackhammer < MCG

Jackhammer < MCG < Lasher

MCG < Lasher < Jackhammer

*rinse* *repeat*

This territory has been trodden in the past.

It's partially up to us to stop over-reacting to everything and stop demanding that our personal favorite thing be the best (not everyone does this, but enough), and it's partially up to PGI to step back a moment and figure out a way to break the cycle.

Just saying.

*gasp* a voice of reason! voices of reason are OP. nerf them