273 replies to this topic

[Taemien]

Zyllos, on 17 April 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

This entire thread reeks of a problem I have been talking about since before closed beta...weapon convergence.

If all those weapons being fired at the same time ended up hitting different areas (not because of a RNG, but because their physical location dictates where they aim in relation to the crosshair), all of these poptarts and snipers would not be reigning supreme. But the brawl would also not be the best bet either.

You can easily see there are convergence issues because the CT is almost the only thing that takes out mechs anymore. You rarely see, if ever, missing arms/legs before a mech is taken out. LT/RT is the only other target worth taking out.

There has to be some type of balance between alpha strikes and group firing.

Convergence, seriously? You're going to go there? You didn't post anything about it in 1995, 1999, or 2000. Why now?

There is nothing wrong with Convergence. There is nothing wrong with alphastriking or group firing. People just don't know how to avoid shots and WILL NOT twist their torsos to spread out damage. Some of you say you do, but you don't. I have literally fought against a total of THREE people (and I'm not even sure it was the same guy all three times) since November that has done this when fighting me. Everyone else either faces me the entire time, or turns 180 and runs off.

If convergence is killing you, you simply cannot pilot. You might be a good shot, but you're a **** poor pilot.

[Krondor]

RiceyFighter, on 16 April 2013 - 08:57 PM, said:

I been playing ever since closed beta (Hense the founders). I have been though STREAK CAT OP, SRM A1 BOAT OP, ECM OP, First Generation Artemis LRM OP , LRMpocalypse, and now PPC and Gauss OP.

Seriously PGI I can't take it anymore. Each patch they always do big changes and it ruins the balance non stop. I can't remember the last time the game was REMOTELY balanced.

Honestly, balance in this game right now is the worst I've seen it.. other than the LRMpolcolypse phase where a single LRM salvo shredded an Atlas, I don't think any patch since the introduction of ECM has made balance better.

Edited by Krondor, 17 April 2013 - 06:25 AM.

[Chavette]

Time for you 50m splatcatters and one-click LRM-ers to learn to aim. Guess its not your day.

Don't worry, you'll get your missles buffed back soon enuff.

[KhanCipher]

Taemien, on 17 April 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

People just don't know how to avoid shots and WILL NOT twist their torsos to spread out damage.

really... you're going to bring that arguement to the table, listen buddy i have to go heavy front bias armor on the highlander and even then a good 90% of the time i'm going to die to CT destruction even with trying to spread pinpoint damage.

honestly i think PPCs/ERPPCs need their TT heat back.

[Ngamok]

Bobcat023, on 16 April 2013 - 08:30 PM, said:

I'd fix it by bringing back missles to keep the snipers in check and put some kind of limit on JJ, like a short recharge time or something, so they can't jump every second of the match.

Jump Jets need to produce more heat. It would keep the jump time and shot time between volleys of PPC / ER PPC users down some. Also, yea, the jump time needs to be doubled. It currently recharges too fast.

[Eric darkstar Marr]

As I will be deep in the pages odds are this won't be seen.

I say this with a without sarcasm and with directness. It is the whiners fault that we now have a game filled with PPC/Guass. Had people not complained and complained about other weapons we would nto be in the total state that we are in.

There is no real fix other then another round of weapon nerfing, I am well aware the missiles will get "fixed" in May however they will not be the same. Point is that the blame lies solely on those that think X is OP and demands nerfs over and over and over.

I enjoy the game and I personally adapt. Now I am classified as a Poptard even though I was using the 3D that way since day one of the catas. I was a missleboy when my 3F was a LRM70 since day one of stalkers. Point is some people are ahead of the curve and once its seen on Twitch its all over for the rest of us. The most I can say is find some people to group with that way at least it is group v group instead of solo playing against well made teams.

[Iron Tusk]

MechWarrior 4, how I've missed you.

[Royalewithcheese]

Wow, you mean that if we nerf the main brawling weapons into the ground, people start using the main sniping weapons more? How could PGI possibly have anticipated this turn of events?

[Zaptruder]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 April 2013 - 05:59 AM, said:

Isn't 'err on the side of caution' just saying you are 'being very careful?' It is an saying older than all of us! To 'Err on the side of Balance' would be doing everything possible to make no play style dominant. You are just fixating on one word not the meaning of the sentence.

To err simply means to make a mistake.

To err on the side of caution implies that you can have a better outcome than a cautious one.

e.g. by overengineering a bridge to be much stronger than it needs to be, engineers have erred on the side of caution.

So it means that they've spent much more resources than is necessary to achieve a given task, but that provides them with the benefit of extra security.

Another example would be:

To drive slowly to work would be to err on the side of caution. Driving faster wouldn't necessarily get you killed, or even get you a speeding ticket. Indeed, most of the time, you'll be getting to work faster without any other consequences.

But you err on the side of caution because it might not necessarily be worth your while running the risk of copping fines, getting into accidents to shave a few minutes off getting to work.


So to err on the side of balance is an erroneous statement because: balance is the intended goal. You don't make a mistake to get more on target.

The equivalent ideas for the bridge analogy would be to make the mistake of constructing the bridge exactly as is required for is use without excess waste, or excess risk.

Or, to make the mistake of driving as fast as it takes to find the optimal balance between fines, accidents and time saved.

These are not sentences that logically parse correctly.

[Arctourus]

MeiSooHaityu, on 17 April 2013 - 05:46 AM, said:

All I have to say to the OP is....So? *Shrug*

Gauss and PPCs are powerful weapons and if you have the ability ro aim them and use them effectively, then go for it. This game should have more to it than just lasers.

Matter of fact, PGI reduced the sight range of thermal vision and I think that did a lot to curb sniping.

This game can't just be lasers.

Too true, sniping is way more challenging and fun now that you have to come closer to the enemy. Unless it's alpine, but that's another story.

[Joseph Mallan]

If you are being as safe as possible you are not making a mistake either!
To err on the side of caution is to use more caution than may be necessary. Is it a mistake to do that?
Same principle here man.

So to do as much as possible to make everything balanced IS erring on the side of balance.

Quote

[color=#000000]if you err on the side of caution when you are deciding what to do, you do the thing that is safe instead of taking a risk[/color]

If you err on the side of balance you make sure you have everything as balanced as can be. It isn't a hard thing to follow.

You are still only looking at the trees and missing the forest.

[LordBraxton]

Chavette, on 17 April 2013 - 06:28 AM, said:

Time for you 50m splatcatters and one-click LRM-ers to learn to aim. Guess its not your day.

Don't worry, you'll get your missles buffed back soon enuff.

I was an autocannon user prepatch

now all I use are gauss and PPCs

most autocannon builds rely on a few SRMs to finish off the enemy up close, as they are brawlers

only autocannon build now is AC\40

now brawlers suck and snipers are all that is viable

why does everyone think SRMs = splat cat

you are forgetting

Atlas\Cent\Treb\Hunch4sp All relied on SRMs for their brawling power

**** catapults they are fugly mechs anyway

Edited by LordBraxton, 17 April 2013 - 07:33 AM.

[Harrison Kelly]

All of the whiners who got LRMs nerfed into the ground (which aside from the two LRMpocalypses that were hotfixed were never that great) and are now complaining about the prevalence of sniper builds, your tears are de-lic-ious.

When Paper is considered weak, Rock dominates. Yet people are surprised by this.

BTW, the whole "LRMs take no skill" argument is a total red herring, especially with the current state of ECM.

[Joseph Mallan]

I really haven't use LRMs since I got Murphy's Tower. But till ECM is fixed I can happily stay with the rest of the weapons in the game. But yeah, LRMs can could counter Gauss and PPC pretty well.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 17 April 2013 - 07:40 AM.

[jay35]

This thread should be titled, "OMG people try out things that have changed!" and its author should be Captain Obvious.

Edited by jay35, 17 April 2013 - 07:41 AM.

[LordBraxton]

KhanCipher, on 17 April 2013 - 06:29 AM, said:

really... you're going to bring that arguement to the table, listen buddy i have to go heavy front bias armor on the highlander and even then a good 90% of the time i'm going to die to CT destruction even with trying to spread pinpoint damage.

honestly i think PPCs/ERPPCs need their TT heat back.

This their low heat makes PPCs just a no brainer choice now.

7 ton weapon that fires like a gauss and hits like an AC\10.

Yeah you should pay for that with some ridiculous heat

[Livewyr]

Iron Tusk, on 17 April 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

MechWarrior 4, how I've missed you.

Annnnndddd it's back.

[zraven7]

Funny, I've been using lasers for months now, and having a blast with them.

[Tenpin]

PropagandaWar, on 17 April 2013 - 05:57 AM, said:

Ravens joined in the jump fest so I don't see the problem lol.

Tis true! Last night after the patch I reconfigured my what-do-I-do-with-this RVN-4X with 2x PPC and 5x JJ.

[Mesosaurus]

Why does this always happen?