273 replies to this topic

[Laserkid]

Star Citizen.....8 mil in the bank already...lets see how it pans out.

[Ancalagon]

Believe me, this game has never been more fun now; every setup is somewhat viable if you know how to stick to cover and get into your optimal range (except for LRM users, but weapons that don't require general aiming skills shouldn't be that strong; maybe they should be given more cockpit rock so that they become effective crowd control weapons like they were in closed beta).

When everything was about brawling, it was all about who had the most SRM-6s and MLasers. It required far less aiming skill and position, and was generally a giant mashup of shoot and pray you don't get focused. With the new metagame, positioning is actually more complex than "stick in one giant blob and focus fire the enemy".

[Fitzbattleaxe]

Ancalagon, on 16 April 2013 - 10:57 PM, said:

Believe me, this game has never been more fun now; every setup is somewhat viable if you know how to stick to cover and get into your optimal range (except for LRM users, but weapons that don't require general aiming skills shouldn't be that strong; maybe they should be given more cockpit rock so that they become effective crowd control weapons like they were in closed beta).

When everything was about brawling, it was all about who had the most SRM-6s and MLasers. It required far less aiming skill and position, and was generally a giant mashup of shoot and pray you don't get focused. With the new metagame, positioning is actually more complex than "stick in one giant blob and focus fire the enemy".

In order to hit you with LRMs from my C1, I have to aim at you for the entire duration of the volley, leaving myself exposed to fire all the while. In order to hit you with ERPPCs from my K2, I have to aim at you for no more than the time it takes to click my left mouse button, and then I can immediately hide. Explain to me how that requires more skill.

High alpha builds mean that luck is more of a component than it was during brawls. Consider: PPC Stalker shoots at a Hunchback from a great distance. Aiming in this case is very important, certainly, but there's also, undeniably, a degree of luck involved as to whether the Hunchback will lose an arm, and just a single ML, or it's have it's torso blown apart and be left more or less crippled. Now luck is a component in any fight, but in this case it's concentrated in the outcome of a single event. In a brawl, where you have many different weapons being fired over an extended period of time, the luck gets amortized over the whole battle, and it all sort of cancels out, making it more likely that skill will determine the final outcome.

[KinLuu]

Both brawling and sniping should be viable. Most maps, apart from alpine and river city seem to be designed in a way that enables both types of builds to operate equally effective.

The problem right now is, that some old-school brawling builds, like for example all Atlas and Centurion variants, are pretty handicapped because of the missile balance adjustments. Mechs that rely on direct fire brawling power, like the Jagermech are now the most (some claim only) viable choice for brawling. But they are very squishy... And squishy brawlers do not work that well... So players that like brawling are not happy.

This is bad. Just buff srms again (and lrms, maybe)... They do not need to go back to 2.5 dmg/missiles but 2 dmg/missile should be worth a try.

[Ancalagon]

Back when I was playing in 8 man premades, this is how LRMing people would work: one scout picks a random target (preferably an assault), circles them and keeps a tag on them, and the 4 LRM Atlases (each with 3 LRM 15s) on the team would all fire from cover at the target. The target would die in one salvo, and the scout would pick the next target, and so on and so forth till we ran out of mechs to shoot. There was absolutely no risk to LRMing when you used a teammate to get the lock for you. With the advent of ECM this became unviable, so everyone started using direct fire weapons.. True we still get unbalanced games, but at least it's now people actually get a fighting chance instead of being killed in one (or at most two) 180 damage LRM salvo/s.

[Johnny Reb]

I am not a fan of the current situation. I just deal!

[Samurai Pumpkin]

Adding heat penalties may help with some of the PPC alpha strike -> Overheating that we are seeing.

[Klaus]

They need to add cross hair shaking or do something ASAP.

I bought 3 highlanders right away, and right away started poptarting.

I don't have a problem with playing it, but it's just ruining the game. It isn't even fun seeing 6 highlanders and having a 10 minute sniper war that invalidates everything else.

[Rhinzual]

TOGSolid, on 16 April 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

Wanna see something hilarious?
https://static.mwome...m/img/heatmaps/

Go check out Alpine Peaks and Caustic Valley. Both of them have blatantly glaring problems when you look at the different activity maps that point to those two specifically needing a huge redesign. Huge chunks of both maps go completely unused, the flow on both maps is awful, and the firing lines completely suck. Compare them to one the other maps and you'll see a drastically different result. Fights are more spread out, more of the map is utilized, and kills aren't nearly as concentrated.

It's insane. Forest Colony, River City, etc all have varied flow where a few brawlers might see a light or two, maybe snipers backing away when they're spotted only to find a Jaeger sporting dual AC/20s is behind them and getting ready to show them a world of pain. That's what I love about those maps, the layout itself encourages multiple ways through just one match. Caustic and Alpine? Go off to the side/top/bottom a little and look at the center for Caustic (the large hill) or closer to the top for Alpine (that huge valley surrounded by mountains). Whichever side is in position first on those two maps will almost always win. Not 100% of the time, but you can hang back a tad and watch people get slaughtered. Those two maps need to be physically re-arranged with more buildings, steep cliffs and branching valleys to have a much better flow.

[Zylo]

The current jump sniping issues are making World of Tanks seem fun again... and I really don't like WoT much...

[Richard Strong]

I do very well with an SRM/UAC5 Build, an AC2 Build, an ERLL/SSRM Build, an AC5/ML Build, and more.

Considering you can't see your Elo, I like to pretend mine is decent because I go up against some big name clans sometimes and win, so even at a competitive level, all of that stuff still works well. Pretty much the only thing I don't run are LRMs, and even then, LRMs can still be scary with a good spotter.

In other words, quit your whining. People are doing that because they think that is what their shiny new toy, the highlander, is good for, but there are alot of very viable weapons.

I will admit that 6ppc stalkers really **** me off though. Even 5 ppc stalkers. Screw those guys.

Atlases aren't too good in for brawling nowadays but if you want to brawl, get in something fast and get behind those ******* highlanders and stalkers. Problem solved.

[TOGSolid]

Rhinzual, on 16 April 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

It's insane. Forest Colony, River City, etc all have varied flow where a few brawlers might see a light or two, maybe snipers backing away when they're spotted only to find a Jaeger sporting dual AC/20s is behind them and getting ready to show them a world of pain. That's what I love about those maps, the layout itself encourages multiple ways through just one match. Caustic and Alpine? Go off to the side/top/bottom a little and look at the center for Caustic (the large hill) or closer to the top for Alpine (that huge valley surrounded by mountains). Whichever side is in position first on those two maps will almost always win. Not 100% of the time, but you can hang back a tad and watch people get slaughtered. Those two maps need to be physically re-arranged with more buildings, steep cliffs and branching valleys to have a much better flow.

Hell, just sticking some buildings on those maps would do a lot to fix things without requiring PGI to go in with the Sim City 2k Bulldozer tool and redesign the terrain entirely. They do have fundamental problems that need to be addressed though and neither of them are particularly fun to fight on. At least Caustic is over quickly though. Alpine just drags on.

[Exoth3rmic]

My suggestion would be release more than one mech weight class at a time, as an example a medium and a heavy. At least then not everyone will be pushing one weight and intensifying any one particular flavour of gameplay at a time.

This, however, seems unlikely given the production turn around and people do dislike having "ready" things held back from them.

[Rhinzual]

TOGSolid, on 16 April 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

Hell, just sticking some buildings on those maps would do a lot to fix things without requiring PGI to go in with the Sim City 2k Bulldozer tool and redesign the terrain entirely. They do have fundamental problems that need to be addressed though and neither of them are particularly fun to fight on. At least Caustic is over quickly though. Alpine just drags on.

Some more buildings/trees to act as cover would indeed go a long way to helping, but then you've got the problem of snipers just watching the only places you can leave and you're more or less stuck while the enemy brawlers come up behind/besides you and maul you. This is assuming the buildings and trees are poorly placed and too few, I'm not keen on being too hopeful these days. Still, there is the potential PGI could add meaningful cover in the form of rocks/trees/buildings to help reduce the snipefest going on right now. Enough of them would have the nice side effect of creating some actual flow, as mechs would likely go certain routes to avoid the ERPPC/Gauss Rifles of DOOOOOOOOM and get into a good fight.

[Kahoumono]

People will argue boaters/poptarts have weaknesses...yes, they can be vulnerable when alone but the majority of matches they are parked together in a group.

Once again, perfect weapons convergence is my beef which promotes stacking weapons from small lasers all the way up to ppcs. And once again my solution would be to get rid of weapons covergence to an extent or implement diminishing returns to damage or compounded heat if alpha'd together.

[RavenMadCat]

I still take out my catapult from time to time and punish snipers with lrm fire. Seems like since the missile nerf, more people tend to ignore the "incoming missile" warning and stand in the open. Pick my shots, only fire on what i have clear l.o.s. on and try to keep ARTEMIS effective range and punish. Most matches I've played in it I've averaged 2 kills and 90% wins cause the brawlers get a chance to move up after the others notice dead buddies, and start taking cover...or all focus fire at me . All the while, friendly snipers gain advantage and cover the brawlers advance.

Tactics f.t.w.

[MentalPatient]

IMO they should increase the tonnage of ballistic weapons as well as the heat usage. No more spamming and stacking. Additionally, using jump jets should result in increased heat, meaning constant poptarding is not viable and will lead to eventual shutdown.

Edited by MentalPatient, 17 April 2013 - 12:38 AM.

[SubXulu]

tuokaerf, on 16 April 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

How would you fix it?

Anti ECM artillery, be it orbital drop or a Mortar style mech weapon with an AoE that shuts down ECM in an area for a period of time. This would allow all sorts of tactical movement and force the pop-tarters to constantly re-locate.

Edited by SubXulu, 17 April 2013 - 12:39 AM.

[GODzillaGSPB]

tuokaerf, on 16 April 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

How would you fix it?

LRMs must make a return. Though it's a shame, a true shame that people are currently not using them. Because they are still strong. All the people see is that the numbers are lower than before and lower = worse = useless.

Whenever I saw LRMs in games these days they made a true difference. Forced me or forced them into cover, made damage, killed even.

Still, they are rare. And there is no reason why they should be.

[TOGSolid]

GODzillaGSPB, on 17 April 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

LRMs must make a return. Though it's a shame, a true shame that people are currently not using them. Because they are still strong. All the people see is that the numbers are lower than before and lower = worse = useless.

Whenever I saw LRMs in games these days they made a true difference. Forced me or forced them into cover, made damage, killed even.

Still, they are rare. And there is no reason why they should be.

Because they're far too situational really. ECM threw a giant wrench in LRM gameplay that made using them incredibly risky. Sure, tag beats ECM, but then you're exposing yourself to all of the snipers out there. The lower damage just made an already kinda bad weapon worse.