127 replies to this topic

[ICEFANG13]

Armor is shared between front torso and back torso, right torso and back right torso, and left torso and back left torso. You have 50/60 on the front and 10/60 on the back.

[Selfish]

You need all your armor on your torsos. You can skimp on the legs and arms on the CTF. They're small and out of the way. I find I don't reduce my legs below the front of my side torsos. No more than a ton. Front/Back armor ratios are up to the user. The most popular is 2/3 front, 1/3 back.

After the Host State Rewinds for most weapons you actually should be dying incredibly fast. Most engagements I'm in last about 2-3 salvos at their optimum range, with each salvo able to fully destroy the opponent outright with a headshot. If you find you're dying too fast, chances are you need to work on your positioning and damage mitigation. Use buildings and cover to your advantage. If a side torso takes too much damage, or is destroyed, then move so that your other side will face opponents if you decide to circle them. Don't just stare at opponents if your weapons are on CD. Stick with friends. Let the Atlas go first. Etc.

[Luther Varone]

ICEFANG13, on 21 April 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

Armor is shared between front torso and back torso, right torso and back right torso, and left torso and back left torso. You have 50/60 on the front and 10/60 on the back.

Of course. I'm stupid.

Selfish, on 21 April 2013 - 02:27 PM, said:

You need all your armor on your torsos. You can skimp on the legs and arms on the CTF. They're small and out of the way. I find I don't reduce my legs below the front of my side torsos. No more than a ton. Front/Back armor ratios are up to the user. The most popular is 2/3 front, 1/3 back.

Thanks a bunch for the input. I'll take that under consideration.

Honestly though lately I've been considering just selling this CataFML because I hate its layout and how low the arms hang, the torso twist is crazy sluggish and the cockpit view is awkward. Maybe I should've begun with a Medium instead of Heavy 'Mech for starters, as I'm clearly a raw beginner with this game, and it's taking more time/attention than I'd expected

[McQuackers]

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Honestly though lately I've been considering just selling this CataFML because I hate its layout and how low the arms hang, the torso twist is crazy sluggish and the cockpit view is awkward. Maybe I should've begun with a Medium instead of Heavy 'Mech for starters, as I'm clearly a raw beginner with this game, and it's taking more time/attention than I'd expected

Run this build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6ee23fb3d3193d5

The builds optimum range is ~400m which will keep you out of the majority of players sights. You're able to brawl and slug it out with other heavies (especially even the "optimal" builds once you learn how to torso roll and which spots to aim for) and also the mediums.

Just try to keep at range for the most part.

As for the XL engine, believe me, the phract needs the speed. The bonus to torso twisting is a HUGE bonus. The downside is that your RT is fairly fragile. If your gauss rifle goes, there's a 90% chance that *you* go. I've been running the build for a few weeks now after a lot of experimentation, and I am confident this build brings the most potential I've seen. It really shines once you unlock the elite level proficiencies like Speed Tweak.

Always try to torso roll to the right so you present your left arm, which gets used as a shield. Hammer with the Gauss and ERPPC in conjunction, and followup with the twin LLs which you can use to scalpel sections on enemy mechs.

/edit
As a last note, there are times where you WILL die quickly from RT. Once you learn the build, you'll be pushing out 600-800+ damage in wins, and ~400+ in losses.

Edited by McQuackers, 21 April 2013 - 03:49 PM.

[BoPop]

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Maybe I should've begun with a Medium instead of Heavy 'Mech for starters

eh me and all my buddies started out with heavies and assaults. i picked catapults ... he picked stalkers hehe, we both feel like we shoulda started with different mechs but whatchya gonna do. it's just growing pains like maybe 75% of people who've played MWO have gone through.

i'd keep the mech, unless you really need the mechbay and don't want to buy MC. otherwise just save up for a centurion and then strip your mech naked, keep all those weapons and stuff in your inventory. don't sell stuff. your inventory will increase as you buy mechs, then you just have to buy engines or weapons here and there.

maybe later you can return and experiment with the cataphract without having to buy it again. or maybe you can play it in between rounds when you die quick in your new mech. all mechs are kinda tough until they get double heat sinks and engines that let you have a nice weapon loadout. faster isnt always better i've found, cuz if i go too fast i get myself into trouble. on a side note, if you happen to spectate on some vets they use lots of medium lasers and are just pretty good shots, they torso twist to keep damage spread out, and stick with the pack for the most part, and watch their heat. less is more sometimes.

[Luther Varone]

McQuackers, on 21 April 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

Run this build: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6ee23fb3d3193d5

The builds optimum range is ~400m which will keep you out of the majority of players sights. You're able to brawl and slug it out with other heavies (especially even the "optimal" builds once you learn how to torso roll and which spots to aim for) and also the mediums.

Just try to keep at range for the most part.

As for the XL engine, believe me, the phract needs the speed. The bonus to torso twisting is a HUGE bonus. The downside is that your RT is fairly fragile. If your gauss rifle goes, there's a 90% chance that *you* go. I've been running the build for a few weeks now after a lot of experimentation, and I am confident this build brings the most potential I've seen. It really shines once you unlock the elite level proficiencies like Speed Tweak.

Always try to torso roll to the right so you present your left arm, which gets used as a shield. Hammer with the Gauss and ERPPC in conjunction, and followup with the twin LLs which you can use to scalpel sections on enemy mechs.

/edit
As a last note, there are times where you WILL die quickly from RT. Once you learn the build, you'll be pushing out 600-800+ damage in wins, and ~400+ in losses.

lol I'm such a newbie that looking at anything on that Smurfy site totally blows my mind. But I really appreciate your in-depth feedback, I might look into that. After swapping my Medium Lasers for a Gauss I've been dealing some hefty damage and getting some kills; that Gauss sure does deal a lot of damage. The concept of 2 PPCs is enticing, but also cautionary so far as heat and weight (and $) is concerned.

BoPop, on 21 April 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

[/size]


eh me and all my buddies started out with heavies and assaults. i picked catapults ... he picked stalkers hehe, we both feel like we shoulda started with different mechs but whatchya gonna do. it's just growing pains like maybe 75% of people who've played MWO have gone through.

i'd keep the mech, unless you really need the mechbay and don't want to buy MC. otherwise just save up for a centurion and then strip your mech naked, keep all those weapons and stuff in your inventory. don't sell stuff. your inventory will increase as you buy mechs, then you just have to buy engines or weapons here and there.

maybe later you can return and experiment with the cataphract without having to buy it again. or maybe you can play it in between rounds when you die quick in your new mech. all mechs are kinda tough until they get double heat sinks and engines that let you have a nice weapon loadout. faster isnt always better i've found, cuz if i go too fast i get myself into trouble. on a side note, if you happen to spectate on some vets they use lots of medium lasers and are just pretty good shots, they torso twist to keep damage spread out, and stick with the pack for the most part, and watch their heat. less is more sometimes.

well said,BoPop. I think I'll indubitably take that advice. Unfortunately I'm only playing this game for not even a full hour per day because of my full time job and other hobbies like writing and console gaming, not to mention every time I boot it up I spend like 30min on here or elsewhere searching for tips/advice. Right now I'm seeking a 27in monitor to replace my 23, as well as a proper gaming mouse, and hopefully by then I'll be able to relay more time and focus into this amazing game

[McQuackers]

It's nice that you're keeping up with the thread, Luther. Feel free to keep posting builds for ideas and critiques.

[Luther Varone]

McQuackers, on 21 April 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

It's nice that you're keeping up with the thread, Luther. Feel free to keep posting builds for ideas and critiques.

sure thing

[Luther Varone]

here is what I'm working with now. It's pretty much as close to this build http://mwo.smurfy-ne...6ee23fb3d3193d5 as possible, so far as me getting away with my standard non-XL engine and my Ferro-Fibrous as opposed to Standard armor. I'm not too keen on not having my PPC on an arm, as I'm sure it'll limit my versatility in using it, but with a 'vacant' arm I can use to block incoming salvos - smart! - and something less direct for people to damage, maybe it'll be worth getting used to

[ICEFANG13]

If you have nothing in it, better to strip the arm of the armor, unless you intend to use it like a shield to protect yourself, and that doesn't work for Cataphracts.

[Luther Varone]

ICEFANG13, on 21 April 2013 - 08:47 PM, said:

If you have nothing in it, better to strip the arm of the armor, unless you intend to use it like a shield to protect yourself, and that doesn't work for Cataphracts.

I thought it was working for me on my last match. why wouldn't it work for Cataphracts? and why the hell have I NEVER seen another Cataphract on the field before? hmm...

[ICEFANG13]

Um I don't think you understood what I said.

Its not likely that you get legged, but if you have nothing in your left arm, you should instead remove armor from it, rather than your legs, because it doesn't protect you like a shield would, because of how close it to the ground.

[Luther Varone]

ICEFANG13, on 21 April 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Um I don't think you understood what I said.

Its not likely that you get legged, but if you have nothing in your left arm, you should instead remove armor from it, rather than your legs, because it doesn't protect you like a shield would, because of how close it to the ground.

I gotcha. It's the one thing I truly dislike about the Cataphract - its arms are too low.

[Luther Varone]

I am keeping my Cataphract, after all the hard work and changes and moolah I've put into it. I have close to 2 mil CB right now so I need almost 3 million more to buy .. the Dragon DRG-1C

Because I'd like to have 2 Mechs and after experimenting a bit with a Medium I realized I'm just not good enough (yet) to be sweeping in for drive-by's and whatnot.

I would still like to pursue having a PPC (ER or not) and a Gauss as my primaries, with an LRM (gotta get the hang of using missiles, for one) and 2 Lasers as backup, on this future Dragon of mine

[LittleGrim]

I wouldn't recommend a Dragon if your having issues with the phract. I hated my phract's until I got the 4x which showed my how to play the chassis. Don't be the front line mech, hang back a little and support assaults and other mechs zooming around. For my 1X I have tried 2 builds so far that I felt I've grooved with.

One being 2 ERLL in the torso's and 3ML's in the arms. That one did ok but I'm currently running an AC20 and 5ML and a 300 standard engine(had to put endo in for this one so doubt I'll go back to the ERLL one). Runs a little hot but I just finished Elite on it so hopefully that makes a difference, otherwise I can just throw some coolshots in there.

I agree with the low set arms being hugely annoying(it's why I had the ERLL's in the torso), but the Dragon suffers from a similar problem AND it has a giant center torso but it does go fast.

[Buckminster]

If you don't like low arms, the other heavy out there - the Catapult - may be what you are looking for.

I use a K2 for my 'direct fire' build, like so: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b75ccee5245200e

It's basically two ERPPCs and the rest is heat sinks. Not the most brutal alpha strike, but it handles the heat well which gives it a lot of longevity. I know a lot of people mock the MGs, but they are there for two reasons - they can get a lot of crits in a good brawl, and they don't add any heat. I used to run a pair of medium lasers instead of the MGs, but found that the extra heat was limiting my use of the ERPPCs.

The only word of caution on this build is the expense - almost 14 million C-bills once all is said and done. A lot of that is the XL engine. Honestly though, just taking a base K2, adding DHS and max armor is still a solid mech: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2750a91b0476a38, and saves a ton of C-bills in the process.

[ICEFANG13]

Buckminster, on 22 April 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:

If you don't like low arms, the other heavy out there - the Catapult - may be what you are looking for.

I use a K2 for my 'direct fire' build, like so: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b75ccee5245200e

It's basically two ERPPCs and the rest is heat sinks. Not the most brutal alpha strike, but it handles the heat well which gives it a lot of longevity. I know a lot of people mock the MGs, but they are there for two reasons - they can get a lot of crits in a good brawl, and they don't add any heat. I used to run a pair of medium lasers instead of the MGs, but found that the extra heat was limiting my use of the ERPPCs.

The only word of caution on this build is the expense - almost 14 million C-bills once all is said and done. A lot of that is the XL engine. Honestly though, just taking a base K2, adding DHS and max armor is still a solid mech: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2750a91b0476a38, and saves a ton of C-bills in the process.

This doesn't look that good to be honest, but opinions on worthless MG, AMS, and BAP aside, you should never place ammo in the center torso, you have room in the legs, and although the head is almost always a safe bet, on the Catapult only, I would place it in the arm (since there is no more room in the legs).

I mean MGs do so little damage, LRMs are pathetic and no one uses them to good effect anymore, BAP is countered 100% by ECM, and the most common light and Atlas will counter it.

Why not do this?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8a69e6e3ed833e5

[Sadistic Savior]

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Gauss was my second weapon consideration after the PPC, but I was given the allusion that it would be too much weight/space and I'd be SOL when it came to close-quarters.

Not at all. I use gauss on my highlander, and it hits at point blank. It is SUPPOSED to have a minimum range (it did in the Table Top game) but in this game it does not. Only downside is that it explodes like Ammo when hit...so it you only have ballistic mounts in your torso, it might be a bad idea. Especially if you have an XL engine.

If I have the weight and space for it, I always choose Gauss over PPCs. It does lots of damage at one point, it's ammo does not explode, and it generates almost no heat. But I admit PPCs have advantages; they are lighter, take less space, need no ammo, and hit much faster in combat.

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Right now I'm torn between swapping the Medium Lasers for a Gauuss or "lower caliber" Autocannon.

I would go with Gauss over any Autocannon except maybe an AC/20. I would only trade lasers for it if you are confident you can hit close targets with a ballistic weapon. The new State rewind makes this easier than it used to be, but it is still not as easy as lasers IMO.

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Most people seem to be focusing their responses on my weapons, which is great and all I really appreciate the attention to detail, but WHAT ABOUT MY ARMOR PLACEMENT?

IMO, your armor should always be maxed or close to maxed. That is a given. That is probably why most people are not commenting on it...no one would choose to go with light armor on a heavy mech.

I would say, max out center torso and head, and distribute evenly everywhere else then go from there and tweak as you need. Arms and legs will depend on what you have stored there...if you are putting ammo in the legs, you might want to put more there. If you are carrying key weapons in an arm or torso (like that Gauss), I would put more there. If you have nothing in one or both arms, I would distribute to torso and legs first, and whatever is left over to arms.

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

Someone mentioned focusing on torso, take some off head, arms, legs if need be.

As someone who loves to headshot heavy mechs, I would warn you that skimping on head armor is a bad idea. Especially with state rewind now on ballistic weapons. I usually target the head first. And I usually headshot a heavy mech at least once a day.

IMO, head armor should always be maxed. Even before center torso.

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

How significant is armor on my rear?

Depends on how good you are a piloting. If you are bad I would say it needs to be high. If you are good, I would say you can skimp on it to a large degree. Clever torso twisting will minimize rear hits even from nimble lights that are circle-strafing you.

But just as with the head, the rear is a prime target for everyone else. If they see your rear torso presented, they will go out of their way to hit it. because it is usually not well armored and therefore an easy kill.

[Caviel]

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

...the torso twist is crazy sluggish...

This is directly related to your engine size, and mech unlocks to improve both your torso twist and movement speed. Taking Double Heat Sinks and Endo-Steel Internal structures are pretty much a given for ALL mechs. Very, very few builds do not benefit from having both.

FF armor has limited benefits as you only gain 2-3 tons for giving up all the internal structure space. The description is a bit misleading, your armor isn't more effective, you just get more armor per ton with the same amount of max armor. Even an Atlas only gets 3 tons or so of weight back for all the armor it has.

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 08:38 PM, said:

I'm not too keen on not having my PPC on an arm, as I'm sure it'll limit my versatility in using it

Quite the opposite actually. With the exception of having an AC/20s in the arms (Which you can't do due to your mech having lower arm actuators, i.e. elbow joint), you gain far better mobility with the weapon for aiming. Your torso will only turn/pitch so far (The Cross of your aim reticle), which your arms (the smaller circle) can exceed, most notably on the vertical plane.

I would hold off on LRMs for now until you are feeling more comfortable piloting. Playing a support role is a very different way to play the game, and you may find yourself not doing a whole lot in matches until you get some of the general piloting/map stuff under wraps first.

[Selfish]

Luther Varone, on 21 April 2013 - 10:21 PM, said:

I am keeping my Cataphract, after all the hard work and changes and moolah I've put into it. I have close to 2 mil CB right now so I need almost 3 million more to buy .. the Dragon DRG-1C

Dragons are fun mechs, but they're fairly expensive to get into. Don't forget you'll need to buy an XL engine to make them really work, and those will cost upwards of 5-6 million Cbills on their own.

I'd recommend using Hunchbacks if you're confused on what to play. Practically every veteran of this game has whet their chops on the chassis. It has some of the best torso twist and arm control in the game, teaches damage mitigation (hunch variants drive it home), it eases you into weaponry without overwhelming you, and it's very easy on the wallet. The 4SP is still a fantastic mech even after the nerf to missiles in general. The 4P is a laser boat and insanely effective. The 4H or 4G let you experiment with ballistics. At the end of it, you'll have a good idea of what playstyle/mech you want to go for next.