102 replies to this topic

[MadPanda]

GODzillaGSPB, on 17 April 2013 - 11:03 AM, said:

LOL! 4 weeks. Yeah...just LOL!

Only thing to really LOL about here is you expecting people to post with realistic ideas. So good "catch" that the plan isn't really workable within a 4 week timetable, LOL YOU SO SMART!

[jay35]

Mystere, on 17 April 2013 - 11:02 AM, said:

If I owned PGI, and the money to back things up of course, I'd:

• yank MWO off the market to make the game private
  
• allow people to play the game totally free of charge, but BY INVITATION ONLY ( )
  
• treat the players as my game's NPCs ( )

Yeah, see that's the problem. You can't just skip over the most important part of your fantasy. It doesn't happen on mythical unlimited revenue. Revenue has to be real. You can't presuppose the funding. You're required to operate in reality.

Edited by jay35, 17 April 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[Mystere]

jay35, on 17 April 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

Yeah, see that's the problem. You can't just skip over the most important part of your fantasy. It doesn't happen on mythical unlimited revenue. Revenue has to be real. You can't presuppose the funding. You're required to operate in reality.

Who said anything about revenue? I'm turning PGI into my own personal game developer - as in developing a Mechwarrior game for my personal use. Everyone else playing is an NPC as far as I'm concerned.

Yeah, that rich!

[Thorn Hallis]

Wrenchfarm, on 17 April 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

PGI's communication with the community has been dreadful lately. Hostile, pouty, defensive, they treat the core player base like the enemy. It's disgusting.

To quote May Payne: "One thing you could count on: You push a man too far, and sooner or later he'd start pushing back."

[GODzillaGSPB]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Let me ask you this though.

Right now lets say the community is 50/50 split on ECM or MG's. Wouldn't it make sense to make a change and try to get to where it's 80/20 or 70/30, such that when a complaint thread starts, MOST of the people are good with it?

Same for your mech point. Right now I'd say it's also at ABSOLUTE best 50/50 on PGI releasing information in a productive manner. Wouldn't it be better to open up communication and get 70-80% of the player base behind you, so when a thread starts people are defending you without needing to be total white knighters?

I agree on the first part. The second part though is slippery terrain for any developer. When they present WIP and concept art people expect it and when the devs have to drop is there'll be an outcry. Often enough did a final product differ from early concept art, development videos and WIP and people then try to torch the developers and burn them at the stake in their community forums.

So I understand their hesitations to an extend.

YES of course I'd like to see this right now. I'm as curious as the next best person. But I try to see it from their perspective. Any information you release that is not certain is a risk.

MadPanda, on 17 April 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

Only thing to really LOL about here is you expecting people to post with realistic ideas. So good "catch" that the plan isn't really workable within a 4 week timetable, LOL YOU SO SMART!

Ah sorry. I usually add at least some hint - smillies or the like - to mark my posts as ironic.

Edited by GODzillaGSPB, 17 April 2013 - 01:02 PM.

[Vasces Diablo]

Predictable patches with notes every other week
A bi-weekly Q&A where PGI answers questions directly from the player base
A monthly development update released on a predictable time schedule
Interviews with 3rd parties (sites, magazines, cons, podcasts).
Daily use of twitter and FB
Dedicated forum section where game concepts are revealed is updated multiple times a month (command chair)
An announcement forum that contains lore and game event updates
Community contests and events

But let's be clear... They don't communicate enough.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

GODzillaGSPB, on 17 April 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I agree on the first part. The second part though is slippery terrain for any developer. When they present WIP and concept art people expect it and when the devs have to drop is there'll be an outcry. Often enough did a final product differ from early concept art, development videos and WIP and people then try to torch the developers and burn them at the stake in their community forums.

So I understand their hesitations to an extend.

YES of course I'd like to see this right now. I'm as curious as the next best person. But I try to see it from their perspective. Any information you release that is not certain is a risk.




Ah sorry. I usually add at least some hint - smillies or the like - to mark my posts as ironic.

Yeah but the mech thing is just an example. There are a lot of things they could talk openly about that wouldn't have that same issue.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Vasces Diablo, on 17 April 2013 - 01:09 PM, said:

Predictable patches with notes every other week
A bi-weekly Q&A where PGI answers questions directly from the player base
A monthly development update released on a predictable time schedule
Interviews with 3rd parties (sites, magazines, cons, podcasts).
Daily use of twitter and FB
Dedicated forum section where game concepts are revealed is updated multiple times a month (command chair)
An announcement forum that contains lore and game event updates
Community contests and events

But let's be clear... They don't communicate enough.

Patch notes that always seem to leave something out, and lets be fair that is not what we are talking about.

The QnA sucks about 75% of the time. They do not give real answers to most of the questions. And when they do they say things like 6 MG spiders.

The monthly update always seems to happen in such a way that half of the information is already spoiled by the first patch. They are underwhelming at best.

The 3rd party stuff is a HUGE issue. Because most of the time they say something stupid, then claim they were misquoted and blame the reporter.

Their use of twitter and facebook is spotty at best. Did you forget about the 3rd person debacle already?

The dedicated forum area is bleak, and not updated nearly as often as it should be. 5 months for the ECM bull crap...5 months.

The last two aren't even worth commenting on.

And I also throw at you the passive agressive always in a bad mood community manager Garth as well.

[Volthorne]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 17 April 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

And I also throw at you the passive agressive always in a bad mood community manager Garth as well.

If you were Garth, would you want to deal with the person who just posted the above? Probably not. The forum community for MW:O is pretty ********* toxic, which is just about average for any game forum community.

How many times has a PGI staff member been polite and courteous and tried to answer questions in threads only to be screamed at by multiple people with the restraint of a 5 year-old and the vocabulary of a sailor? How many times have they actually DESERVED said tantrums?

Put yourself in the shoes of a PGI Dev for even just a minute, and try to imagine how you would feel when dealing with US, THE FORUM COMMUNITY.

[3rdworld]

If I owned or was in charge of PGI.

I would fire:

Whoever is in charge of balance.
Whoever is in charge of QA.
and Garth.


Balance is terrible, QA is worse, and Garth is just a troll.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Volthorne, on 17 April 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

If you were Garth, would you want to deal with the person who just posted the above? Probably not. The forum community for MW:O is pretty ********* toxic, which is just about average for any game forum community.

How many times has a PGI staff member been polite and courteous and tried to answer questions in threads only to be screamed at by multiple people with the restraint of a 5 year-old and the vocabulary of a sailor? How many times have they actually DESERVED said tantrums?

Put yourself in the shoes of a PGI Dev for even just a minute, and try to imagine how you would feel when dealing with US, THE FORUM COMMUNITY.

I have a job, no matter what my mood, what happens at home, what happens with my family I come in and I do my job properly and with no one being any the wiser that my kid might be sick or my wife and I had a fight. Or that they are just very annoying and I don't like them.

Stop making excuses. He's a grown man.

Edit: By the way, don't you think he might've had an inkling that he was going to have to deal with that stuff when he took the job?

Whatever dude, continue White Knighting!

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 17 April 2013 - 01:32 PM.

[Ranek Blackstone]

Odanan, on 17 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

If I owned PGI (or bought it right now), these are the changes I would do immediately:

- Fix ECM: ECMs would only make the affected mechs slightly harder to target/lock-on - that's it. This way, they would still be helpful to a team, but optional and worth no more than its only 1.5 tons. The "Counter ECM feature" would be assigned to other equipment, like Beagle or Command Console, because it is badly wrong to put in ECM's alone all the weight of the Electronic Warfare (or to make ECM the only real ECM's counter).

In TT, the only real counter to ECM was more ECM in counter mode. Beagle knew it was being jammed, but couldn't break the jamming. Now that HSR is in for both lasers and ballistics, ECM isn't nearly as powerful as people like to whine about. ECM ravens die in flocks to AC fire now.

Quote

- Fix Ammo: ammo per ton would be the double of the TT values, making stock variants viable. PGI doubled the armor so it is (only) logical to double the ammo, not just increase an arbitrary number for each weapon.

Double ammo only makes sense if shots landed on a mech at random. But they don't. Ammo is buffed 25% per ton from TT as it is, and I can lay a seriously high smack down in my AC mechs despite double armor.

Quote

- Fix Heat Sinks: heat sinks inside the engine should always be single. That's something TT should have done, if they were worried about balance. Double Heat Sinks would dissipate real 2x heat but with the drawback of taking more critical space. That way, Double Heat Sinks would be optional and stock, low-tech variants are more competitive. I would increase the current overall amount of heat dissipated per second too, so the stock variants with DHS wouldn't be too harmed.

Do SHS need some love? Yeah, I can get behind that, but most builds, even in TT, benefit from DHS despite the larger crit requirement.

Quote

- Fix Useless Equipment: Give Machineguns and Flamers a slight damage buff, give NARC a real usefulness, make Beagle worthy, make Ferro Fibrous as good as Endo Steel.

Ferro was NEVER as good as Endo, even in TT. Even the Clan version isn't as good as IS Endo.

Quote

- Fix Variants: there are some timeline-wise variants that never made into the game: release them all. Hunchback HBK-4N, Atlas AS7-S, Commando COM-1C, Dragon DRG-1G, should all be in the game. The Centurion CN9-AH should come back. At the same time, rework some variants and chassis, making them all equally good - this could be made by adding extra modules or hardpoints to poor variants.

The AS7-S Atlas uses DHS and rear facing Streak 2s. We don't have rear facing weapons in MWO if you haven't noticed, because actually aiming something like that would be near impossible.

And the COM-1C? Who'd trade streaks for an AC2? Seriously!

Quote

- Handle Clans with Care: Clan tech can't be mixed with IS one or the balance is destroyed. So, no Clanners and IS mechs in the same teams. Clan players can't fight in equal terms against IS ones - they should fight something like 16 IS mechs (4 lances) VS 10 Clan mechs (2 stars).

Said by others, but the Clans aren't going to be nearly as scary as some people like to think. In TT, yeah, they were worth the hype, with the better ranges, which was given a better BV. But in MWO, where an Atlas can be killed by a Jenner 1/3 it's BV, you'll see most IS mechs stack up pretty good against clan Omnis. Might even have the advantage since most Omnis run XL engines, and an Omni can't change engines. The Dire Wolf is going to be something of a glass cannon IMHO. Lots of fire power to be sure. Disturbingly large amounts of firepower, but that side torso isn't any tougher then an Atlas, and you have an XL 300 in that thing.

[Victor Morson]

And if I owned PGI I'd have them make 3D holograms and sim pods and oh oh it'd be cool if they made real 'mechs too and ...

.... yeah. You have zero idea about how any of this works, OP. This is not magic.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 April 2013 - 01:33 PM.

[Davers]

If I owned PGI
(If I owned PGI)
I'd buy you a mech bay
(I'd buy you a mech bay)
If I owned PGI
(If I owned PGI)
I'd buy you a mech for your mech bay
(Maybe a nice Jagermech or a Centurion)
And If I owned PGI
(If I owned PGI)
Well, I'd buy you a PPC
(A nice reliable ballistic weapon)
If I owned PGI. I'd sell you MC

If I owned PGI
I'd build a base for you to assault
If I owned PGI
Or you can defend it, it ain't that hard
If I owned PGI
Maybe we could put a little tiny ridge in there somewhere
You know, we could go there and hang out
Like poptart and snipe stuff
The enemy mechs would all be laid out for us
Like little Urbanmechs

If I owned PGI
(If I owned PGI)
I'd buy you a pink Highlander
(But not a real pink Highlander, that's cruel)
If I owned PGI
(If I owned PGI)
I'd be rich!

[Odanan]

Ranek Blackstone, on 17 April 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

In TT, the only real counter to ECM was more ECM in counter mode. Beagle knew it was being jammed, but couldn't break the jamming. Now that HSR is in for both lasers and ballistics, ECM isn't nearly as powerful as people like to whine about. ECM ravens die in flocks to AC fire now.

??? I didn't play much with ECM in TT, but in Sarna there is no mention that ECMs counter ECMs. Heck, it even can't jam LRMS and SSRMs.

Ranek Blackstone, on 17 April 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Double ammo only makes sense if shots landed on a mech at random. But they don't. Ammo is buffed 25% per ton from TT as it is, and I can lay a seriously high smack down in my AC mechs despite double armor.

Yes, double ammo. Try a trial (missile) Catapult and say to me it has enough ammo. It you need to put 8 tons or more of ammo in your mech to last the entire match, there is something wrong.

Ranek Blackstone, on 17 April 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Do SHS need some love? Yeah, I can get behind that, but most builds, even in TT, benefit from DHS despite the larger crit requirement.

Sure, but as I said in the OP, the TT system of SHS and DHS is broken. Every equipment (even upgrades like Endo Steel) should have a drawback. Doubling the engine heat sinks is wrong.

Ranek Blackstone, on 17 April 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Ferro was NEVER as good as Endo, even in TT. Even the Clan version isn't as good as IS Endo.

But it should be!

Ranek Blackstone, on 17 April 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

The AS7-S Atlas uses DHS and rear facing Streak 2s. We don't have rear facing weapons in MWO if you haven't noticed, because actually aiming something like that would be near impossible.

You don't know the Atlas AS7-D has the 2 center Medium Lasers rear facing? And this is not the only mech with changes in terms of hardpoint location/facing in this game (all for the best, in my opinion).

Ranek Blackstone, on 17 April 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

And the COM-1C? Who'd trade streaks for an AC2? Seriously!

Give me the choice!

Ranek Blackstone, on 17 April 2013 - 01:31 PM, said:

Said by others, but the Clans aren't going to be nearly as scary as some people like to think. In TT, yeah, they were worth the hype, with the better ranges, which was given a better BV. But in MWO, where an Atlas can be killed by a Jenner 1/3 it's BV, you'll see most IS mechs stack up pretty good against clan Omnis. Might even have the advantage since most Omnis run XL engines, and an Omni can't change engines. The Dire Wolf is going to be something of a glass cannon IMHO. Lots of fire power to be sure. Disturbingly large amounts of firepower, but that side torso isn't any tougher then an Atlas, and you have an XL 300 in that thing.

You are a lover of TT, right. So you should know that Clan mechs and tech are superior in everything. Imagine a mech fast as a Raven, better armored than a Cataphract and better armed than a Stalker. Despite those poor MW4 players think, Clan mechs will be supreme and you can't treat them as equals.

[MaddMaxx]

If I owned PGI, these Forums would be CLOSED and invites sent out to those Players who actually "play the GD game" as at least they have some basis with which to ask for change and or offer Suggestions.

Many many here would be on the outside looking in, that I can assure you.

[Tekadept]

LinkIcefang, on 17 April 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

You have no idea of what their situation is or what their longterm goals are.

Sometimes I wonder if PGI know what their longterm goals are

[IceCase88]

The ideas you pose are bold and refeshing. I foresee a trip to K-Town for redemption.

[Odanan]

IceCase88, on 17 April 2013 - 03:58 PM, said:

The ideas you pose are bold and refeshing. I foresee a trip to K-Town for redemption.

K-Town?

[IceCase88]

Odanan, on 17 April 2013 - 04:57 PM, said:

K-Town?

Yes