202 replies to this topic

[hashinshin]

Davers, on 17 April 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

AC/10 has 3x range, so 1350 max range. PPC has max range of 2x so 1080. AC/10= Longer Range

You do know the AC10 has a projectile speed of 1,100 and the PPC 2,000. There's really 0 question about which weapon is better at sniping. It's pretty much solidified that it's the PPC. Not to mention you're using ranges that are both insanely long and where the AC10 begins to fall off to pointless damage.

But hell using your logic the AC/2 has 2,160 max range which makes it all but unstoppable.

Edited by hashinshin, 17 April 2013 - 02:50 PM.

[Davers]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

by that logic there is literally nothing we can do to nerf poptarters, they will forever be OP and woe be to their opponents. The only possible thing we could do to stop them would be to nerf the PPC's damage, which we can't do because it's canon at 10.

Ohhh merciless Ares please give strength to the victims of the unstoppable poptarters!

Honestly, I don't have a problem with poptarters. Played with some friends (2 Hunchbacks, my Atlas, and I think a brawling Highlander) and we rushed them and killed them every match we played last night and today. But thats from a relatively small number of games played. Maybe I just haven't encountered the problem yet.

[hashinshin]

Davers, on 17 April 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Honestly, I don't have a problem with poptarters. Played with some friends (2 Hunchbacks, my Atlas, and I think a brawling Highlander) and we rushed them and killed them every match we played last night and today. But thats from a relatively small number of games played. Maybe I just haven't encountered the problem yet.

there is no problem with poptarters. The problem is PPC users can dump all their heat in to massive burst allowing them to chunk away entire sections of mechs extremely quickly. And teams full of PPCs can shred even an assault mech to pieces in like 10 seconds.

Who cares if you're at max heat if you've already gotten a kill.

Edited by hashinshin, 17 April 2013 - 02:51 PM.

[Davers]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

You do know the AC10 has a projectile speed of 1,100 and the PPC 2,000. There's really 0 question about which weapon is better at sniping. It's pretty much solidified that it's the PPC. Not to mention you're using ranges that are both insanely long and where the AC10 begins to fall off to pointless damage.

But hell using your logic the AC/2 has 2,160 max range which makes it all but unstoppable.

Ok, you are getting a bit hostile here. Dunno what I did to offend you. I'll just back out of this discussion.

[Royalewithcheese]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

by that logic there is literally nothing we can do to nerf poptarters, they will forever be OP

Here's the thing with poptarting: it's the result of a combination of factors (jump jets, effectiveness of short-range weapons, ECM/LRM balance, netcode, available chassis) that make jumping into the air and shooting dudes with long-range direct-fire weapons a pretty effective tactic. If your goal is to remove or decrease the prevalence of poptarting, you aren't going to accomplish that by trying to nerf specific weapons that people use as part of the tactic, because you aren't affecting the reasons why the tactic is good.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 17 April 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[hashinshin]

Royalewithcheese, on 17 April 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

Here's the thing with poptarting: it's the result of a combination of factors (jump jets, effectiveness of short-range weapons, ECM/LRM balance, netcode, available chassis) that make jumping into the air and shooting dudes with long-range direct-fire weapons a pretty effective tactic. If your goal is to remove or decrease the prevalence of poptarting, you aren't going to accomplish that by trying to nerf specific weapons that people use as part of the tactic, because you aren't affecting the reasons why the tactic is good.

I'm not trying to nerf poptarters. They can do their thing and that's fine.

[Teh Ninja]

Haven't read this whole topic. As far as I have seen as soon as one thing gets nerfed on this game people complain about something else. this game will never have PERFECT balance. No game ever does. that's all there is to it. At this rate everything is going to get nerfed to ****.

[Erasus Magnus]

jeffsw6, on 17 April 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

I actually think PPC and ERPPC rate-of-fire should be doubled, damage and heat cut in half, and the ERPPC's damage drop-off increased dramatically so it does 0 damage at 1200m. I think this would do a lot to keep them as a useful weapon while nerfing the 6 PPC Stalkers that are so ridiculous.

Alternatively, make them take up a lot more critical slots and tons, so they are not as easy to boat. This maybe should be done even if the above mechanic changes were made.

i would like a more battletech lore like approach. there is not a single viable 6 ppc built in bt lore. the warhawk being the mech with the most ppcs on board, with 4 of them.
one single ppc more would make this mech melt.

i really wanna see heat penalties in the game. i think it would be great to keep high heat builds at bay nicely.

there are countless possibilities to do such a mechanic. mechs over 150% heat just have a core meltdown, electronics melt when constantly being high on the critical heat scale (permanent hud scramble like mw4), passing out pilot due to the incredible amount of heat flooding the cockpit, coolant storage tanks that erupt, etc.

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 17 April 2013 - 03:02 PM.

[hashinshin]

Davers, on 17 April 2013 - 02:51 PM, said:

Ok, you are getting a bit hostile here. Dunno what I did to offend you. I'll just back out of this discussion.

You're trying to bring the AC/10 in to an argument over good weapons. If you don't have anything to contribute to the conversation then why are you here? I'm trying to show why the PPC is doing so amazing right now and you're arguing max range falloff of the AC10? What in the hell? There's a reason why people dropped the AC/10 like its hot and just found room for Gauss.

I mean hell there's a reason why in the canon the AC/10 is considered the trash version of the Gauss and is given such a low BV value. Yet you're gonna try and pretend it compares to the PPC?

Edited by hashinshin, 17 April 2013 - 02:59 PM.

[tayhimself]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

Okay, so then why is the PPC so blatantly better than the LL?

Don't you think the LL is better than the PPC for brawling and vice versa for sniping? I have a hard time choosing between the two in my Elo bracket anyway. I'd love to hear from high Elo players.
I am in the camp that thinks PPCs are fine. They could use a small disincentive to boating be it through higher heat dissipation with a lower heat threshold or some other mechanic.

[hashinshin]

tayhimself, on 17 April 2013 - 02:59 PM, said:

Don't you think the LL is better than the PPC for brawling and vice versa for sniping? I have a hard time choosing between the two in my Elo bracket anyway. I'd love to hear from high Elo players.
I am in the camp that thinks PPCs are fine. They could use a small disincentive to boating be it through higher heat dissipation with a lower heat threshold or some other mechanic.

I can dump all my heat in to PPCs and back off while the LL player is still sitting at 60%. Or I can dump all my heat in to the PPC and get a kill with focus fire before the LL player really has much to say. Yes, the LL player will win over time in a brawl but that's an oddly specific situation to have happen.

[Erasus Magnus]

Willie Sauerland, on 17 April 2013 - 02:26 PM, said:

It would just

give them

more time

to cool...

whenever i see a reply from you a always picture that asthmatic black kid in the wheelchair from malcolm in the middle...

[Brilig]

I don't think there would be an issue with PPCs if it were not for convergence allowing you to boat several then fire them all at the exact same spot for massive damage.

[Kay Oss]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 01:52 PM, said:

...
Okay, since apparently the forums are just as stupid as every other forum online, lets just quick show some stats.

There are 3 big energy weapons.

Large Laser. 5 tons. 2.12 DPS. 1.65 HPS. 3.25 recycle (and time the laser is active.)
Large Pulse Laser: 7 tons. 2.5 DPS. 1.83 HPS. 3.25 recycle (and time the laser is active.)

See how these are similar?

Now lets look at the PPC.

Particle Projectile Cannon. 7 tons. 3.33 DPS, 2.67 HPS. 3.0 recycle.
Da fuq?

Now lets drop the PPC to 3.75 refire rate and see how its stats compare.

Fixed PPC: 7 tons. 2.666 DPS. 2.13 HPS. 3.75 recycle
See how it STILL maintains a higher DPS and HPS than the other energy weapons even after a sizable nerf? That's a problem.

The whole problem with your reasoning is that you're saying HPS is higher than the lasers as if it's a good thing!!!

It does 50% more DPS than a large laser, weighs 40% more and makes 100% MORE HEAT. Sounds close to right if you ask me.

[Willie Sauerland]

Erasus Magnus, on 17 April 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

i would like a more battletech lore like approach. there is not a single viable 6 ppc built in bt lore. the warhawk being the mech with the most ppcs on board, with 4 of them.
one single ppc more would make this mech melt.

i really wanna see heat penalties in the game. i think it would be great to keep high heat builds at bay nicely.

there are countless possibilities to do such a mechanic. mechs over 150% heat just have a core meltdown, electronics melt when constantly being high on the critical heat scale (permanent hud scramble like mw4), passing out pilot due to the incredible amount of heat flooding the cockpit, coolant storage tanks that erupt, etc.

To get that,

you would need

to remove

1/2 the armor,

incorporate

DHS correctly,

and then the Awesome

with its 3 PPCs

would be both

viable

and accurate.

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

You're trying to bring the AC/10 in to an argument over good weapons. If you don't have anything to contribute to the conversation then why are you here? I'm trying to show why the PPC is doing so amazing right now and you're arguing max range falloff of the AC10? What in the hell? There's a reason why people dropped the AC/10 like its hot and just found room for Gauss.

I mean hell there's a reason why in the canon the AC/10 is considered the trash version of the Gauss and is given such a low BV value. Yet you're gonna try and pretend it compares to the PPC?

Um...

The PPC is

supposed

to be the

high-end

energy weapon.

Thus its

higher BV...

Now, if the MM

would implement

BV

that would be

awesome.

[Victor Morson]

hashinshin, on 17 April 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

look I'm not gonna respond to you until you talk normally and develop common sense. I mean that's just annoying and stupid at the same time.

If he doesn't cut it out I'm going to ask an admin if they can probate him or something. There's a time and place for centered / double spacing and this isn't it.

It's the internet equivalent of trying to win an argument by being the loudest guy in the room.

UPDATE: After his last super wordy, 3-word wide center-formatted double spaced post, I've reported him. He's purposely screwing up the forums. I'd be happy if all his posts got deleted just because they're annoying. I would encourage others to report him as well.

He's got very little to say and is formatting it in a way that takes up more than tripple the space it should so his points get seen more. It's stupid and ugly and has no place on the forum.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 April 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

Victor Morson, on 17 April 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

If he doesn't cut it out I'm going to ask an admin if they can probate him or something. There's a time and place for centered / double spacing and this isn't it.

It's the internet equivalent of trying to win an argument by being the loudest guy in the room.

UPDATE: After his last super wordy, 3-word wide center-formatted double spaced post, I've reported him. He's purposely screwing up the forums. I'd be happy if all his posts got deleted just because they're annoying. I would encourage others to report him as well.

He's got very little to say and is formatting it in a way that takes up more than tripple the space it should so his points get seen more. It's stupid and ugly and has no place on the forum.

Feel free.

Won't be the first time...

Niko Snow, on 12 April 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

Attention seeking formatting is not a punishable offence.*
So say we all.

*We reserve the right to edit ugly formatting.

[LordBraxton]

PPCs recycle is fine, they just run too cool for a 10 damage 7ton gauss rifle

Edited by LordBraxton, 17 April 2013 - 03:54 PM.

[Willie Sauerland]

LordBraxton, on 17 April 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

PPCs recycle is fine, they just run too cool for a 10 damage 7ton gauss rifle

I think once

Host State Rewind

is finished,

the weapons

will be rebalanced

and things will

normalize.

[Victor Morson]

Willie Sauerland, on 17 April 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

Feel free.

Won't be the first time...

Then why continue to post like a mentally damaged person?

I mean at this point you might as well be rolling around on the isle screaming "LOOOOK AT MMEEEEEE" like a girl on that Sweet 16 show.

Edited by Victor Morson, 17 April 2013 - 04:05 PM.