202 replies to this topic

[Willie Sauerland]

HeavyRain, on 18 April 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Since almost every 6PPC boat I have encountered keeps shutting down during the match, I think it would make sense to have damage done to your internals if you overheat, no matter if you override or not. If you are at 70% heat and you fire 6PPC, you go to 130% or so, sure, you trip the relay and shut down but all that heat surely must do some damage. If they keep firing for 60 damage and shutting down, then after 3 or 4 times things should start to go boom.

I have a 6PPC stalker

and I approve this message.

[xDeityx]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 April 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

If the only reason you won't answer him is his choice of format... then you are being unreasonable!

I find it annoying and unnecessary, so I'm not going to humor him. He may have had some valid points, but his choice of format is distracting from those, which is a shame.

[Willie Sauerland]

xDeityx, on 18 April 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

I find it annoying and unnecessary, so I'm not going to humor him. He may have had some valid points, but his choice of format is distracting from those, which is a shame.

You are still not contributing

to the topic at hand.

Please go troll elsewhere.

[Joseph Mallan]

xDeityx, on 18 April 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

I find it annoying and unnecessary, so I'm not going to humor him. He may have had some valid points, but his choice of format is distracting from those, which is a shame.

That's sad. Cause being unique is supposed to something admired.

[Fate 6]

Splice, on 17 April 2013 - 02:17 PM, said:

OMG... Are you saying you shouldn't stand out in the open in one place?

OMG... are you saying we should never do anything and just stand around behind buildings?

[Joseph Mallan]

Fate 6, on 18 April 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

OMG... are you saying we should never do anything and just stand around behind buildings?

He said stand out in the open. I read nothing about not moving from cover to cover, while taking the shots you can get.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 April 2013 - 07:42 AM.

[Chuckdatass]

Fate 6, on 18 April 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

OMG... are you saying we should never do anything and just stand around behind buildings?

In any game with guns, standing out in the open is a bad idea. Not just this one. However, this game lets you stand out there for a little bit, while other games its one shot and you're dead.

Edited by Chuckdatass, 18 April 2013 - 07:16 AM.

[The Last Blade]

so, you're saying we should be more like CoD?

[Chuckdatass]

The Last Blade, on 18 April 2013 - 07:37 AM, said:

so, you're saying we should be more like CoD?

My generation usually thinks of counter strike as the shooter to compare to. But anyways, no one is saying to be like any other game. Just that common sense says, if you don't want to be shot by a ranged weapon, moving in cover is smart.

[xDeityx]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 April 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

That's sad. Cause being unique is supposed to something admired.

It depends on the uniqueness. Chairman Mao and Martin Luther King were both fairly unique.

[Deathlike]

Mason Grimm, on 18 April 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

Edit: Yes, the PPC is considered a "ballistic" since it discharges a ball of whatever but it still requires a capacitor to charge before it can be fired.

The word you are looking for is "projectile".

[Willie Sauerland]

xDeityx, on 18 April 2013 - 08:19 AM, said:

It depends on the uniqueness. Chairman Mao and Martin Luther King were both fairly unique.

Did either one of them have PPCs?

If they did I could see how it might

somehow magically be related to this topic.

[Gogopher]

when they reduced ppc heat and increased rof they broke ppc's...think of TT and how seldom u actually put ppc's on mechs until clan tech is available...now imagine the OP ppc now and then re-imagine it as a clan erppc...since nothing is being done to combat artificial boating...ppcs must be returned to 10/15 heat and should have the same cooldown as the large autocannons...ie...4sec...

battle tech is not a stand still and snipe game...it is a constant movement maneuver game....something this game has lost with the introduction of the stalker and its insane weapon loadout...and it is so slow as to not be able to maneuver...im sorry if all those who boat the stalker are offended and must protect their sacred right to ruin the game...but its a broken game atm and will remain such until weapons are rebalanced and boating is discouraged via some artificial mechanism (increased heat... convergence fire...increased tonnage and critical slots)

Edited by Gogopher, 18 April 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[Sheraf]

PPC is overpower now

[Willie Sauerland]

Sheraf, on 18 April 2013 - 08:37 AM, said:

PPC is overpower now

I don't think 1 PPC is overpowered.

I think the problem most people are having is the jump sniping

and the 4-6 PPC carrying stalker with pinpoint damage.

Both are easily beatable but require some ability

to think tactically and work as a team.

[vectorpirate]

Teh Ninja, on 17 April 2013 - 02:55 PM, said:

Haven't read this whole topic. As far as I have seen as soon as one thing gets nerfed on this game people complain about something else. this game will never have PERFECT balance. No game ever does. that's all there is to it. At this rate everything is going to get nerfed to ****.

Slappers only! Like playing Goldeneye hand-to-hand instead of the OP Laser or Golden Gun.

[Erasus Magnus]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 18 April 2013 - 06:42 AM, said:

ppc is already governed by heat. the issue is not adjusting recycle time, but making it so pushing your mech over 100% is more costly to the pilot. heat management remains a complete joke.

this. and i still do not understand why heat penalties would require the double armor pattern to be removed.

we are not talking about table top heat values, nor table top heat penalties. we are talking about HIGH heat penalties, at the very end of the heat spectrum, close to shutdown.
heat levels, that melt electronics, let the pilot fade, let coolant tanks burst, ultimately let the fusion core shieldings melt down, stuff like that.


the awesome in mwo works differently than the tt version. in tt it could fire all three ppcs almost constantly, in mwo its not the case.
so it has to move, go for cover to cool down a bit befor re enganing, which is the drawback for not being ammo dependant.

the awesome hitboxes are yet a different kind of problem to be solved.

if HIGH heat penalties (above ~80-90% of max heat) were implemeted in mwo, the ppc awesome still would be a powerfull platform (running the 3d atm with 3 er ppcs and 4 jjs. its a ton of fun) with 5+ppc boats being severely hit with.

heat were one of the most important factors in mechwarrior and btech games. right now its just a minor nuisance.

HeavyRain, on 18 April 2013 - 07:00 AM, said:

Since almost every 6PPC boat I have encountered keeps shutting down during the match, I think it would make sense to have damage done to your internals if you overheat, no matter if you override or not. If you are at 70% heat and you fire 6PPC, you go to 130% or so, sure, you trip the relay and shut down but all that heat surely must do some damage. If they keep firing for 60 damage and shutting down, then after 3 or 4 times things should start to go boom.

which is pretty much what i wanted to say and take it a tad further by applying those damage penalties if constantly being at the very verge of shutdown or overtaxing the mechs heat capabilities.

Thecure, on 18 April 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Let's accept for arguments sake that there should be severe heat penalties when going close to or above overheat. Should this apply only to "boats" or every mech?

every mech of course.

if one builds a mech that cannot stand continous fire or is very bad at managing said mechs heat, he/she should be punished.

greetz

era

Edited by Erasus Magnus, 18 April 2013 - 09:41 AM.

[Yetibus]

When I first started playing MWO, I was excited to use the PPC, as it was my favorite weapon in previous PC games (except MW2).
I was sorely disappointed. There were no DHS, so for the massive heat I received an akward weapon that could not be used effectively, especially given the prevalence of lag-shielding Jenners.

Then, they buffed PPCs with a projectile speed exceeding the gauss rifle, and made the gauss more risky to put on a mech. Interesting, but you could only put a bunch of them on the Awesome, which clearly has problems. It didn't work as a primary weapon for the K2, since MGs suck so you waste the torso ballistic slots.

Then they buffed the heat, and I admit, I got a little hard. On paper, it was a fantastic weapon, and now that there are DHS too, it has everything you want... except you can only put a bunch of them on the Awesome. Sure, I could do a ton of damage, but I would be sure to be blown to bits early in the match. Mixing torso and arm PPCs while completely exposing my mech to the enemy was still too risky for my tastes. Besides, I already sold that Awesome, I didn't want to buy it back just to test out the new PPC.

And then came the Stalker. Forget the 6 PPC Stalker, it is a joke. They key feature of the Stalker is its arms. 4 PPCs at the very top of the mech... They all aim at the same crosshair, and I don't need to completely expose my mech from behind a hill in order to make a shot on someone. I could fit SSRMs in the torso to deal with lights, and the 5M can put a medium laser on the CT, so I can still do a little damage after losing both shoulders. The way DHS fit into the arms and torso is sublime, no space is wasted. I've been playing this mech for weeks, and it is a monster. 2.5 W/L, 5.6 K/D. I still fear a heavy/assault getting within 90 m of me, but by playing carefully, I can minimize these situations. A lot of times, an enemy could have stayed within 90 m, but went beyond that range, and was instantly smoked. When an enemy was determined to stay within 90 m, I was in big trouble.

A longer cooldown on the PPCs would have little impact on how I effectively use this mech. While my PPCs are cooling down, generally, I am behind cover. I don't care about having a high DPS. I care about being able to do a ton of damage and then not take any in return. It's why people like pop-tarting. If you are playing mechwarrior to kill the opponents, it is the entire point of the game: do more damage than you take. A game where both teams want to kill each other will not last 15 minutes, so there is no time limit rush. You can play it safe, not care about DPS, just care about damage dealt vs. damage returned.

The fact is, the PPC is strong compared to most other weapons. If it is going to be nerfed, though, it needs to be done carefully, because it used to suck, and it could be that way again. Lower its projectile speed a bit (no slower than gauss), and maybe tick the heat back up by 0.5 or 1. Maybe make the minimum range 110 m. I would rather be able to keep the power of the weapon as it is for careful long range, and make it even more screwed up close. Better yet, fix SRMs and ACs, and leave PPCs alone.

Edited by Yetibus, 18 April 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Galenit, on 18 April 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Thanks for that!
Read your post after reporting him....

starting to think we should all adopt Willie's choice of formatting just to **** off some **** retentive types.

[Bishop Steiner]

SpiralRazor, on 18 April 2013 - 06:40 AM, said:

There is no such thing as boating, because after 3050 FASA realized that no one played the 3025 stuff...The mech design in the beginning tech manuals was rtarded. What you refer to as "boating" was standard policy even in TT after the release of the Clan tech...and that spans a GOODLY number of years of supplements.




That is entirely PGIs fault in caving to the worst players in the game...which makes up about 90% of the players in the game.

Owning every supplement pre- Jihad/Dark Age, and 20 plus years playing in sanctioned tournaments, I must disagree. You have a handful of boats (Pirahna, Nova, WarHawk, Thunderhawk, Annihilator, Viking) and the vast majority are balanced (or attempts to balance). The vast majority of 3025 mechs functioned just fine.... vs the other 3025 era mechs (Charger, Banshee and such being intentional exceptions), and still usually showed OK against the 2750 SLDF designs. The 3050 TRO brought the core OmniMechs, of which 2 were actual boats. Most of the 3050 IS designs were intentionally restricted, as they were meant to represent rush job field kits. 3055 saw a mix, but most were not "optimal" as they were rush designs with new, somewhat poorly understood tech, rushed in design and implementation.

3058 and on was when mechs started to come out "optimized" and few were boats. Unless you count dual gauss a boat. Of the top off my head I can't recall any stalk 6 ER PPC mechs.

Point being is boating was never the "norm" in TRO's, and all the designs worked EXACTLY as intended in their environs, and oddly enough all previous MW titles, you could run most of them fine too.