150 replies to this topic

[tenderloving]

Hedonism Robot, on 17 April 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

You are piloting a laser boat stalker and mad about poptarts? While I 100% agree with your post, after watching the video it seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. The games I am in have just as many atlas and stalkers loaded with ppcs and large lasers to also shelling out lots of damage and coring mediums and lights.

Sometimes, to be competitive, people adopt playstyles that they do not enjoy or agree with.

In a competitive environment, players cannot be required to self-police. This is the job of the developers.

[Brilig]

Pretty sure if you fixed it so that every weapon on the mech didn't have perfect convergence pop tarts would no longer be an issue. In fact boats in general would lose a lot of their advantage.

Edit: I'd like to see it fixed without RNG expanding cone of fire though.

Edited by Brilig, 17 April 2013 - 09:20 PM.

[OneEyed Jack]

Zylo, on 17 April 2013 - 08:39 PM, said:

I like how no one has posted a good video countering poptarts using other builds. It's just basic tactics though, so clearly any n00b should be able to make it work right? Maybe you can be the first to provide this video evidence showing how easily these tactics work? I actually want to see proof that this is as easy as everyone seems to claim.

Royalewithcheese, on 17 April 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

OP seemed to do a pretty good job. It's not even like that was a super-optimized Stalker or anything, either.

This. I admit I hadn't watched the video prior to seeing Royale's post (didn't need to), so I went and watched it. All I saw was the brand new mech, that had been available less than a day, being played a lot. No surprise there. And then I see a bunch of claims that it's hard to deal with, despite the fact the video clearly shows the side with more of the offending build getting thoroughly stomped, largely due to the efforts of the OP in a mech that is slow, lumbering and entirely without JJ. So where's the video suggesting there's something needing fixed?

Frankly, this is the first video game I've played in years, so I don't have an up-to-date rig and mine doesn't play the game that well to begin with. At this point, it hasn't become important enough to me to realistically consider dropping the money on a gaming rig. Recording videos is out of the question. And going out of my way looking for a HGN-heavy match so I could specifically record for you is certainly not worth my time.

On a side note, Klaus, the Stalker is a considerably larger target from the side than the front. Turning to shield when neither side is damaged, and when you'd probably be best-served by them hitting your CT, is not necessarily optimal.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 17 April 2013 - 08:45 PM, said:

Or add heat penalties to Jump jet launching

It would be more correct to say "increase heat penelties," since there already are. It's just less obvious, since it applies over the course of the jump, instead of in a lump sum. This causes it to reduce the speed of cooling, rather than be a visual spike.

Zylo, on 17 April 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

Another that I saw in the past was lowering the total heat limit a mech could take before shutting down and increasing the heat dissipation rate. Both would be good counters to high heat/high alpha builds.

Both reasonable suggestions. I don't feel there's a problem, but would certainly be amenable to see how the game played with either one instituted. Sadly, I think the days of experimental changed passed with the end of CB.

[OneEyed Jack]

Brilig, on 17 April 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

Pretty sure if you fixed it so that every weapon on the mech didn't have perfect convergence pop tarts would no longer be an issue.

Since the most complained about boats have been the missile boats for which convergence meant the next best thing to nothing, I wouldn't bet on it. Since those aren't such an issue, currently, it's gotta move to something else. You can't please all of the people all of the time.

Whiners gonna' whine.

[TerebNeerg]

I really don't understand this topic. I accept as a given that people do not like to lose.

Therefore, if you consistently beat people who espouse a tactic or build your dislike, they will be disinclined to continue playing in that manner. So, to me, one of the following must be true:

A. People playing in such a manner cannot be consistently beaten by a counter playstyle (which likely means the playstyle is overpowered)
B. The manner of play is fun enough that it overcomes the part where you lose.

The OP is asserting that both A and B are not true in the case of jump-snipers. Which leads to the question: Why are people playing them?

Update:
Survey says: Because it's the new mech and everyone plays the living daylights out of new mechs. So just chill out for a while and it'll even out (if you believe A & B are false)

Edited by TerebNeerg, 17 April 2013 - 09:44 PM.

[Davers]

TerebNeerg, on 17 April 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

I really don't understand this topic. I accept as a given that people do not like to lose.

Therefore, if you consistently beat people who espouse a tactic or build your dislike, they will be disinclined to continue playing in that manner. So, to me, one of the following must be true:

A. People playing in such a manner cannot be consistently beaten by a counter playstyle (which likely means the playstyle is overpowered)
B. The manner of play is fun enough that it overcomes the part where you lose.

The OP is asserting that both A and B are not true in the case of jump-snipers. Which leads to the question: Why are people playing them?

Because the forums said they were OP and unbeatable so everyone ran out to play one.

[jakucha]

It's a new mech that happens to be the first assault with jump jets. This happens with every new mech. Not to mention most of the poptarters don't have the best aim from what I've seen.

Also, in the video it looked like the enemy team had the most Highlanders and they lost.

Edited by jakucha, 17 April 2013 - 09:45 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

its called wack-a-mole online. get it right

[Celyth]

LawL noobs, adapting means getting ERPPCs, Gauss, and other high alpha builds out. Do you TRULY think flanking with lights and the other BS will net you a win through tactics?...


Yea sure, ill break it down, assaults wayyyy too far back to advance through no man's land w/o taking sniper fire?

OOOO better send in the lights and mediums to harass and turn their attention, flank right/left fasties, please!

Ohhh, so they stopped shooting the assaults, time to advance assaults...(this will take 30~+ seconds)

How many alphas does it take to take out a medium or light in an 2v8? Keep in mind this distraction job is taking place behind their cover. Expect no assault support until they cross no mans land.

my guess 2 good hits, maybe a generous 3. 3 alphas to kill and there will be 4+ of these highlanders/stalkers/cataphracts or whatever doing these alphas along with the rest of their team lazing/tazing the squirrels. One shot to the leg and this "flanker" is free Cbillage.

Cover? Ohh yea, good luck moving your assaults from cover to cover without losing half their armor and weapons before the brawl starts.

There is no adapting in tactics (flanking, cover, etc) besides playing the patience game, which is boring. You gotta wait for the snipers to get bored enough to come to you...good luck with that (unless they're r'terded)

TLDR:
1. Buy a mech capable of a high alpha.
2. Add heatsinks, jumpjets, w/e.
3. ???
4. Profit for a bit until the meta gets changed by a nerf. Hell, even blast out those pesky poptarts out of the sky. Your 35 alpha gauss double ppc poptart got nothing on my quad ppc gauss atlas.

Edited by Celyth, 17 April 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[Mister Haha]

Hedonism Robot, on 17 April 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

You are piloting a laser boat stalker and mad about poptarts? While I 100% agree with your post, after watching the video it seems a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. The games I am in have just as many atlas and stalkers loaded with ppcs and large lasers to also shelling out lots of damage and coring mediums and lights.

This

[RainbowToh]

YAY LETS REVERT PPCs n LARGE LASERS TO THEIR EARLIER BUILDS N PPL WOULD STOP BOATING THEM!

[Dr Killinger]

What was added to the game two days ago?

Jumpy assault mechs and improved ballistics.

What are we seeing a lot of?

Jumpy assault mechs and improved ballistics.

Let's wait for the patch to settle before we lose it again, please.

[AlexEss]

My question is....

Why do people always get bogged down at the boat... why not try and use the surroundings to their advantage instead... Not saying poptarting is not bad.. Just that going that route just makes it worse.

[Sol Fin]

TBH it's a great idea that when mech overheats and powers down while in-flight - it takes a lot more damage on landing. It makes sence for both balance and towards general logic (in a mech game, I know I know...). So if devs do look through these threads full of tears, despare and trolls - please pay attention to this possible solution.

[ReguIus]

You wouldn't walk around like those guys in the video if missiles would be as effective as they used to be. While it might not prevent people from doing what they do now, namely poptarting, but will serve as a limiting factor and at least it gives us means to separate single out the poptards.

[Gooner]

BladeSplint, on 17 April 2013 - 05:16 PM, said:

The fact is that the highlander is the new mech, of course there are a fuckton of people piloting them. The numbers will die down over the next few days.

This is also my theory. I love my Stalkers, long term I think that will be my primary mech, but I've fully mastered 2 variants and the others don't really suit my desired loadout. So I've moved on to Highlander and these same maps that I've been playing for months feel fresh again (although I don't like jumpjets so I guess I'm doing it wrong).

Its like when TF2 used to do class updates. For about a week, all the long time players would play that class because they wanted to a) achievement grind to unlock the new weapons and then try out the new weapons. The Engi update was particularly hilarious, because of course every engi has to build a turret. Good luck getting through Dustbowl with 8 turrets covering each other. All you could do was lol at the newbies who had joined on a free weekend, trying to break the stalemate as a scout but dying in 0.5 seconds. But gradually everything went back to normal (so, just 4 engy's per team )

[Lyrik]

Mystere, on 17 April 2013 - 05:13 PM, said:

Actually, it's probably because your Elo is in the "monkey see, monkey do" level.

Yep :-)
I bought yesterday my second Highlander (so I have a very low elo on assaults) and did the poptarting.

Why? Because why not? I got Jumpjets and a Gauss xD And with me were 2-3 other Highlanders in my team. And 2-3 Highlanders in the other. All doing the same thing.

So for the moment it is the flavor of the month^tm . But most of the pilots suck at doing it. And the other just suck at situational awereness. At least in the low elo.

The worst that comes out of poptarting is that we have to look at the sky too xD Our combat just got 3D :-P

[idle crow]

Clearly a bunch of people never played MW4.

[Roadbuster]

Highlander just got released this week and JJ is one of the significant features of that assault. Of course you'll see lot's of them in every game now.
But just because someone is piloting a Highlander, doesn't mean it's a poptart.

Klaus, on 17 April 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

I'd be in a light or AC/20 Jager if it was worth it right now, but it's not.

Now THAT is funny. So you don't like jumping mechs but you use a Stalker laser boat and would like to run a AC20 Jager or maybe a 3L SSRM Raven? But you don't, because light mechs don't have lagshield anymore and AC20 Jager means brawling instead of sniping?

You'll understand that your video and statement are not very beneficial for your complaint.


EDIT: I've seen far worse poptarting action before btw. I remember a match on Caustic with a team of 4 players on the other team, all in Cataphract 3D with Gauss and PPC. All standing together and jumping at once, coring most mechs in a single strike.

Edited by Roadbuster, 17 April 2013 - 11:11 PM.

[Liquidx]

It's probably already been said, but in case it hasn't. (I'm not reading 8 pages of this **** topic)..

Complaining about people abusing one mechanic (jump & shoot) is pretty damned ironic coming from someone who is clearly abusing another mechanic (stacking large lasers + coolant flushes).

Get rid of the ability to alpha strike / shoot multiple weapons with a single button press and you solve both problems..

edit: hah. guy right above me said it.. figures.

Edited by Liquidx, 17 April 2013 - 11:08 PM.