73 replies to this topic

[Tennex]

i think if when the cataphract came out. people knew about jump sniping. the same thing would have happened.

just let it settle for a while. and if it is still OP i'm sure we can sort it out.

[Alois Hammer]

Iskareot, on 18 April 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

If this is the direction it won't be long before everyone is a jump jet ppc mech period.

This is just the beginning, wait until the poptards get their 3rd person view.

Then it'll be "working as intended," and welcome to PGI presents "PoptardWarrior Online."

[Stoicblitzer]

There are various ways to defeat a team of poptarts but it requires coordination beyond the scope of solo pugging. Many people have already played the l2p card, but solo puggers can't coordinate vs 4+ poptarts with 10-15 ERPPCs and several gauss rifles. We need integrated VOIP.

[Reptilizer]

Stoicblitzer, on 18 April 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

There are various ways to defeat a team of poptarts but it requires coordination beyond the scope of solo pugging. Many people have already played the l2p card, but solo puggers can't coordinate vs 4+ poptarts with 10-15 ERPPCs and several gauss rifles. We need integrated VOIP.

While i really support the integration of VOIP, i disagree on teamwork being a hard counter to poptarts.
The issue really is, that they are not weak in close range fights. Coordination vs. coordination will not give you a hard counter to the setup. The poptart-builds are totally viable for brawling, especially our FOTM Highlander.
So, the paper/rock/scissors game which *should* be the base mechanic is somewhat broken im my opinion.

[Helsbane]

Had 4 lights.... Didn't rush cap to break snipe fest....

Think I found the problem...

[Oderint dum Metuant]

The only people complaining about poptarts are the people who just want to rush with AC20's and SRM6's with nothing to stop them.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I do have to admit that I kind of wish they left out the jump jetting Assaults. An Assault Mech is heavily armored and can lay down a lot of fire, but it's negatives were that it was slower and less manuverable. I think the jump jets have taken away some of the negatives that help balance the chassis out.

It isn't a game breaker IMO (unlike some players opinions), but it definently makes the Highlander feel like it has an advantage over everyone else an Assault isn't supposed to have.

[Kommisar]

It's a bit boring to see lots of the same two mechs employing the same tactic.

Beyond that, while I may not be a mud-in-my-underwear-and-happy-about-it jarhead , I am stubborn enough to not roll over when someone shoots at me and am a strong believer in adapting tactics.

To this end, I bought my first light mech yesterday!!! I went "Nutso" and purchased a 5D Spider and tricked her out. Had an evening of complete and utter culture shock. Moving faster than 70 kph; check. Can jump; check. I have less than 20 tons of weaponry; check. Less than 4 tons of armor; check!!!

Now, I zip around and harass. Draw fire. Flank. And... counter snipe with an ERPPC. Those silly heavy/assault pop-tarts can stay in their little hole all round. I'm going to wail on them until they move. Oh, someone does get a good or luck shot every now and then; but mostly I get to enjoy making those guys keep their attention close and not looking deep for a target.

Or, I get into their base or caps and change the fight. I'm not a huge cap-rush guy; I prefer a fight. But if a group of 4 Highlanders wants to sit in one spot where they have all the advantages... I'm not going to play with them. I'm going to force them to come out or lose and treat them just like Zee Germans treated several hundred miles of French forts back in the 1930's. As irrelevant.

If they move out and engage; super. Hope they didn't wait to long. Indecision in tactical matters is a horrible thing.


As has been mentioned, this too shall pass. There will always be some guys jumping and shooting. It can be very effective! But, as others like me adapt to their predictable nature, it will become less appealing and it will level out.

[Venom Rezak]

DV McKenna, on 18 April 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

The only people complaining about poptarts are the people who just want to rush with AC20's and SRM6's with nothing to stop them.

^ X 9999999999999999999999999

Here's the thing...
if you stand still still across a ridge full of snipers, whether they're jumping or not, you will get wtfpwnt.
if you run straight at a sniper, you will get blown to pieces by alphas.
if you don't flank, you will lose.


so, here are some tips...
dont stand still
have your fast movers flank and disrupt
have your heavy hitter brawlers close the range by using cover while your fast movers flank
take at least one weapon to help you close the range
???
profit.

i realize it's frustrating. For those of you who played MW4, remember the BK's? ECM, BAP, and 6 PPC's. yes they sucked, but flanking and sending in infighters always worked if you were coordinated enough.

All im saying is that jump sniping is very effective, but there are as many disadvantages as advantages. you just need to use your head instead of throwing your hands up and crying cheapshot!

Edited by Venom Rezak, 18 April 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[Royalewithcheese]

DV McKenna, on 18 April 2013 - 07:40 AM, said:

The only people complaining about poptarts are the people who just want to rush with AC20's and SRM6's with nothing to stop them.

90% of pug "poptarts" are actually great news for brawlers, when they're on the other team. They're as squishy as a conventional sniper, but with the added bonus of not being able to hit you!

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 18 April 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

This game is turning into MW:4 all over again and it just makes me not even want to play.

I don't mind jump snipers per se, I just hate that no matter what is tried, everyone just migrates to whatever the latest cheezbuild is. I don't even really die to them so terribly often (lights, streaks, and AC/40 setups are my current nemesises... nemesi? Whatever.)

I want a game where the guy who is "ready for anything" is the most likely victor, not the guy who spams one tactic over and over with maximum optimization. A Large Laser, LRM-10, 2x Medium Laser on a Medium Mech build should actually be an ideal and workable configuration. The stock Atlas should be a terror - AC/20, LRM-20, and 4 Medium Lasers. But it just does not work like that in this game - mixing weapon systems is almost always sub-par to "boating" in some fashion.

I don't know how that could be achieved, though. So, instead, we get the constant nerf-buff-nerf cycle and the FOTM builds.

[Royalewithcheese]

Kraven Kor, on 18 April 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:

I want a game where the guy who is "ready for anything" is the most likely victor, not the guy who spams one tactic over and over with maximum optimization. A Large Laser, LRM-10, 2x Medium Laser on a Medium Mech build should actually be an ideal and workable configuration. The stock Atlas should be a terror - AC/20, LRM-20, and 4 Medium Lasers. But it just does not work like that in this game - mixing weapon systems is almost always sub-par to "boating" in some fashion.

You can actually make great range-balanced configs. They just don't run Inner Sphere LRMs. Builds that run Large Lasers, Gauss Rifles, or UAC/5s tend to be very range-flexible, because those weapons work at multiple ranges. Clan LRMs don't have a minimum range, so expect those to be a bigger part of range-balanced Clan builds than they are for range-balanced IS builds.

You can also make great non-boat configs. Basically the rule of thumb is that as long as there is at least one range all your weapons are good at, you're good.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 18 April 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Nasty McBadman]

Maybe adding a "cockpit shake" to jump jetting mechs. The shake could scale up according to weight (Jumping Spider = little shake, Jumping Highlander = Extreme Shake!). The shake could make it harder to make accurate shots at range. If a pilot is still able to accurately jump snipe they have truely earned that shot through skill or luck. Maybe a "Shake reducing" module could be used.

PS, I sometimes drive a jump/snipe build.

[Kraven Kor]

Royalewithcheese, on 18 April 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

You can actually make great range-balanced configs. They just don't run Inner Sphere LRMs. Builds that run Large Lasers, Gauss Rifles, or UAC/5s tend to be very range-flexible, because those weapons work at multiple ranges. Clan LRMs don't have a minimum range, so expect those to be a bigger part of range-balanced Clan builds than they are for range-balanced IS builds.

You can also make great non-boat configs. Basically the rule of thumb is that as long as there is at least one range all your weapons are good at, you're good.

Almost all of my mechs (that I actually use and like) are mixed-range - AC's and Large Lasers / Medium Lasers, for the most part. The only "boats" I run are my Gauss + 2x ERPPC sniper, which I don't much like but do OK with, and my SRM + MPulse Centurions. And then quad AC/2 Jaggermech if you want to call that a "boat." It certainly is not the deadliest boat if so

[Mycrus]

it's only wack-a-mole if the poptard doesn't move before making his next jump

[therealswilly]

Its more the fact that everytime they release a new mech, this **** happens and we get sick and tired of it rather quickly. Its either they release mechs in packs so that way not one mech is being overloved or they do it bi-weekly or every month, no questions.

[ElLocoMarko]

Time to head to the boardwalk and train up on MWO...

[EvilCow]

MWLL did it right, cockpit shake while using JJs. Poptards have never been a real issue there.

[therealswilly]

It honestly should shake for heavier mechs, the amount of thrust required would be enough to make it shake.

Just at the start of launch, as soon as you hit a certain speed, things will smooth out, and the falling will be hilarious.

Edited by therealswilly, 18 April 2013 - 11:36 AM.

[Huntsman]

"Ok, so now it's a giant whack a mole game?"

I said it would be so about 2 months ago when changes began to flow in to drive the game in this direction. In fact I believe it was I who coined the phrase "whack a mole" in relation to MWO, and I practically got lauged off the forums for saying so.

I hate to say I was right but...oh wait, no I don't. Fail to listen to what I say at your own peril.

Edited by Huntsman, 18 April 2013 - 02:07 PM.