82 replies to this topic

[Esplodin]

Roland, on 18 April 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

Overall though, if you really want the best indicator of performance, the battle score on the scoreboard now is generally a pretty good indicator.

The battle score is rubbish, and tracks mostly damage. Every conceivable measure of performance in this game is laughable at best, and does not even come close to judging your performance as a pilot. I have a HGN-732 that I just unlocked the basics on and have a K/D of 1.38 and a W/L of 1.36. Is that good, average, what? Am I a monster Assault pilot because that chassis is not fully upgraded with all the tweaks?

It's none of those, since my team is the bomb diggity and had my back. Even if those were 10+ or 0.01 I will always consider myself as a student that can learn from others. The only number with any meaning in this game is how many of your group jumps up to lobby and tries to get you to group with them for a drop.

[Roland]

Quote

The battle score is rubbish, and tracks mostly damage.

It's weighted for damage, but also accounts for things like spotting, assists, component destruction, etc.

And that's generally a good overall indicator of performance.

[TexAce]

Therion I, on 18 April 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

WLR is meaningless. Drop WLR and track kdr, assists, saviors, and caps. Plus anything else meaningful to teamplay. You can be the best teamplayer buy you can't always carry your team.

This.

A kill should be equal to an assist and this should be equal to a cap of a base (doesn't matter if assault or conquest).
Add in damage as a factor minus the damage you have recieved and you have a good measure of how a pilot is comparing in a game.
Tagging someone should be seen as damage done over time and narcing someone who dies while narced, should be seen as an assist.

add everything together as a match score and there you have your number, which is not e-peen only.

the current in game battle score is trying that, but its too much weighted to damage done. it could get optimized easily though. The data collected is already there.

I think ~200 damage done should be equal to 1 kill/assist/cap.

for example:
10 points for 1 kill/cap/assist
10 points for every 200 damage done
-10 points for every 200 damage recieved
2 points for every component destructed
1 point for every enemy spotted
1 point for every lance/commander order obeyed
2 point for every lance mate who survived while you were the lance commander
2 points for every savior kill
-2 points for every shutdown

Edited by TexAss, 18 April 2013 - 06:33 AM.

[Belorion]

I agree that stats are meaningless, and my play style reflects that...

I have had games where I haven't had high damage, high kills, or high match score, but have helped none the less. Perhaps running a light where I harassed the enemy to the point where they didn't pay the full attention to my team mates bearing down on them. Or laid down suppressive fire along a ridge to keep a flank at bay.

I will often leave a weaponless mech and turn my attention to more pressing matters, and someone else gets the kill on the mech I just deweaponed.

[Tekadept]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 April 2013 - 04:58 AM, said:

Win loss is nothing I have control over. But what I kill or if I am killed is all on my shoulders.

LOL and your teammates helping strip that armour or distracting them has nothing to do with it? do you enact Zellbrigen?

In a team game there is nothing easilly quantifiable that can be used that is an all around "fair" system.

[Barghest Whelp]

Both stats are totally pointless imo.

The only meaningful stats would be:

1. Damage per match
2. Assists per match
3. Total damage
4. Total assists

Why? Because those are the only stats that actually prove that you were useful to your team. Not saying you can't be useful without, but racking up lots of kills is most certainly not a good indicator.

Edit: I voted for adding W/L in addition to K/D because stats are the only thing that adds any meaning to the game atm.

Edited by Barghest Whelp, 18 April 2013 - 06:31 AM.

[Esplodin]

Roland, on 18 April 2013 - 06:07 AM, said:

It's weighted for damage, but also accounts for things like spotting, assists, component destruction, etc.

And that's generally a good overall indicator of performance.

Not really. It is almost a 100% damage focused stat with a few points tossed in for the other activities you mention. Rarely will I be top on the scoreboard with 300-500 damage, even though I have 2-3 kills, because I can aim and don't spray damage all over my targets. It also craps on light pilots who provide the opportunity for back shots, pulling the enemy out of entrenched positions, leading targets into the kill box.

Anyone who has played organized sports will tell you the team wins, not the quarterback. Get rid of the stats all together I say. Have leader boards only for opt-in ranked teams.

[Roland]

Just don't look at your stats then.
BAM. They have been removed.

[Chavette]

If you had the abilities of successfully calculating a division, you'd know you already have a wlr.

[Fooooo]

Belorion, on 18 April 2013 - 05:07 AM, said:

So if you come across a badly damaged mech and hit it with a small laser for the kill its "all you"?



Yes but KDR is specifically tracked. Win/Loss ratio is not.

It is most definitely tracked.

Win/Loss is not calculated into a W/L like Kills and deaths are into the KDR because they haven't added it to the stats screen.

Its just a simple bit of math that shows the KDR, its not tracked as a KDR.....they just divide the kills by deaths and then display the result......easy.



Would probably take someone 2 minutes to add that to the profile stats screens.

Edited by Fooooo, 18 April 2013 - 06:35 AM.

[TexAce]

Barghest Whelp, on 18 April 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Both stats are totally pointless imo.

The only meaningful stats would be:

1. Damage per match
2. Assists per match
3. Total damage
4. Total assists

Why? Because those are the only stats that actually prove that you were useful to your team. Not saying you can't be useful without, but racking up lots of kills is most certainly not a good indicator.

Edit: I voted for adding W/L in addition to K/D because stats are the only thing that adds any meaning to the game atm.

oh yeah really, and when I'm the only sane one who went out to cap all the bases in conquest and made it last alive WINNING because of just me, who never saw an enemy, I don't get nothing for that in return?

sounds fair...NOT

nobody respects me walking my freakkin metal a$$ off in my 84kmh Jäger to all the bases in ALPINE anyway....

Edited by TexAss, 18 April 2013 - 06:37 AM.

[Willie Sauerland]

TexAss, on 18 April 2013 - 06:34 AM, said:

oh yeah really, and when I'm the only sane one who went out to cap all the bases in conquest and made it last alive WINNING because of just me, who never saw an enemy, I don't get nothing for that in return?

sounds fair...NOT

nobody respects me walking my freakkin metal a$$ off in my 84kmh Jäger to all the bases in ALPINE anyway....

That is a broken meta.

Not the fault of the team.

[TexAce]

Willie Sauerland, on 18 April 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

That is a broken meta.

Not the fault of the team.

I commented on the other guys assumption assists and damage are all we need.

I made a proposal a few post above yours how a good battle score should be calculated.

[Noobzorz]

John MatriX82, on 18 April 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:

Both stats can be totally meaningless, since W/L is also acquired through teamplay and you may inflate it by syncdropping or keep playing with 4 mans, having an easier life than those who pug alone all the time.

I say add also W/L, as well as avg damage per match, but both can be calculated in no time either way.

The obvious thing to do is to put 4mans against 4mans.

W/L ratio is, by far, the best metric of skill until they finally get with the program and ripoff StarCraft/LoL/Call of Duty's league tiering system.

Off topic, but the more I talk about Call of Duty, the more it seems like a much more sophisticated game with much more sophisticated support. Yeesh.

Edited by Noobzorz, 18 April 2013 - 06:49 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Tekadept, on 18 April 2013 - 06:27 AM, said:

LOL and your teammates helping strip that armour or distracting them has nothing to do with it? do you enact Zellbrigen?

In a team game there is nothing easilly quantifiable that can be used that is an all around "fair" system.

What I kill, I kill. I can and have had matchs that I killed 3, assisted with 4 was top dog and lost. You prefer to ride the teams performance, I feel K/D is a more accurate indication of my performance. If I get the kill it means I did the most work, If I get the assist, I helped you get the Kill. That is the best indication of how I am doing.

But you are right, there is no clear cut metric of how well We are doing as an individual. My Opinion is that K/D is more accurate than W/L.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 April 2013 - 06:53 AM.

[Willie Sauerland]

TexAss, on 18 April 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

I commented on the other guys assumption assists and damage are all we need.

I made a proposal a few post above yours how a good battle score should be calculated.

Yes I saw that and liked it.

We'll see what PGI decides to implement.

[Tekadept]

Noobzorz, on 18 April 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

off topic, but the more I talk about Call of Duty, the more it seems like a much more sophisticated game with much more sophisticated support. Yeesh.

Damage can't always be a good indicator either, especially with Ballistic state rewind I can concentrate on a mechs weakspots and take them out more quickly and efficiently rather then racking up massive amounts of damage Spraying rounds all over them.

Edited by Tekadept, 18 April 2013 - 07:07 AM.

[Ph30nix]

Belorion, on 18 April 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

KDR is a meaningless stat. This should be replaced by the win loss ratio, which is slightly better as an indicator of performance (emphasis on slightly).

Thoughts?

ive thought this for awhile, It is completely useless and only promotes EPEEN stroking. People brag "oh i got so many kills" yet we still lost, they did nothing but happen to get the last hit on enemies someone else was fighting or they didnt do their job and instead chose to try and fight fight fight. (like lights staying in the brawl while the enemy lights have 5 capped on conquest)

but even Win/Loss doesnt reflect a players abilities, you can take the best player ever drop them in a bad team or bad situation (multiple disc or very uneven team tonnage or whatever) and their win/loss will suffer.

i dont even think we should see how many kills/who killed what during a match or in end of round scoring, Im fine with damage done, components destroyed and damage TAKEN. not just for assaults and such but ive had matches where i was in a light did 400+ damage and survived it with almost all red and no armor left (no legs/arms lost either) id LOVE to know how much damage i survived in those cases.

Edited by Ph30nix, 18 April 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Belorion]

Ph30nix, on 18 April 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

i dont even think we should see how many kills/who killed what during a match or in end of round scoring, Im fine with damage done, components destroyed and damage TAKEN. not just for assaults and such but ive had matches where i was in a light did 400+ damage and survived it with almost all red and no armor left (no legs/arms lost either) id LOVE to know how much damage i survived in those cases.

Damage taken would be an awesome stat. I hope we get the ability to log matches so we can do in depth post match analysis.

[Gallowglas]

More information, not less.