118 replies to this topic

[IceSerpent]

Pablocampy, on 18 April 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

Except PPC Stalkers are nowhere near as effective as anything that can poptart:

Jumpers are effective because there is no aiming penalty when you jump. As soon as you introduce that penalty, non-jumping snipers get the upper hand.

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You move a mech out of cover to pop off however many PPCs your ridiculous boat is carrying then you'll be receiving some return fire in kind as you slowly trundle back to cover. Peak over cover using jump jets unload an alpha and merrily drop back behind cover while taking little to no damage in reply.

Stalker doesn't need to move completely out of cover - it's energy mounts in the arms are high enough for it to just hill-hump.

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We never saw PPC Stalkers become a problem, because they weren't.

So, all those threads about PPC Stalkers being "cheese" indicate that they are not a problem, but similar number of threads about jump-snipers being "cheese" indicate that those are a problem? Well played, sir, well played.

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Make jump jets shake the screen with the amount of shake being proportional to the weight of the mech. Pop tarting ridiculousness solved without nerfing lighter JJ mechs and without having to add any sort of baked in weapons inaccuracies.

Lighter mechs are already in a bad spot due to PGI's version of weapon "balance". Depending on the actual proportion to the weight you would either end up with jump-sniping 3Ds + non-jumping assault snipers or just non-jumping assault snipers. Competitive teams would include one light mech strictly for scouting purposes (i.e. find out where the other team is going so that your team can figure out a good sniping position).

[Willie Sauerland]

Sug, on 18 April 2013 - 09:40 AM, said:

Like almost every shooting type game developed for the PC in recent memory!!!!!!!!!

does not add validity to arguments.

[Sug]

Willie Sauerland, on 18 April 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

does not add validity to arguments.

You're growing on me.

[Willie Sauerland]

Sug, on 18 April 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

You're growing on me.

[REDACTED TO PREVENT SEXUAL INNUENDO BAN]

[Cyberassassin]

The crosshairs should not be 100% dead-on for every scenario.

If we care to apply some realistic mechanics, wouldn't a mech "shake" from large ballistic impulses or firing a JJ or just moving faster than a walk speed?

Maybe shake is perfect for some instances, ie JJ or 40 LRMs raining down.

Maybe reduced convergence speed or short-duration enlarged cross hairs are perfect for other instances, ie taking an AC/20 slug to a weapon location or falling X meters.

A solution to every problem:
The Devs could implement within the C3 targeting computer or other module equipment to counteract/reduce these effects.
Equip the targeting computer and the shake or an impulse that effects accuracy gets reduced.

TO sum it up: 'Mechs should still be able to hit accurately at long range when maneuvering. There are instances where it makes sense to have an effect on pin-point accuracy.

[Sug]

Wtf are we even talking about now?

[wonator]

Nerfing things is always good way to ruin a game (proofed many times), Only right way to balance a game are changes in mechanics.

So anyone using word "nerf", please SHUT THE **** UP.

[Willie Sauerland]

Cyberassassin, on 18 April 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

The crosshairs should not be 100% dead-on for every scenario.

If we care to apply some realistic mechanics, wouldn't a mech "shake" from large ballistic impulses or firing a JJ or just moving faster than a walk speed?

Maybe shake is perfect for some instances, ie JJ or 40 LRMs raining down.

Maybe reduced convergence speed or short-duration enlarged cross hairs are perfect for other instances, ie taking an AC/20 slug to a weapon location or falling X meters.

A solution to every problem:
The Devs could implement within the C3 targeting computer or other module equipment to counteract/reduce these effects.
Equip the targeting computer and the shake or an impulse that effects accuracy gets reduced.

TO sum it up: 'Mechs should still be able to hit accurately at long range when maneuvering. There are instances where it makes sense to have an effect on pin-point accuracy.

Isn't this one of the purposes of the gyro?

It is there to help the mech maintain stability

and balance while moving.

Doesn't it also affect the ability to fire?

[Sug]

Cyberassassin, on 18 April 2013 - 09:56 AM, said:

If we care to apply some realistic mechanics

If they can make a mech shake from an AC2 round they can make them shake when running full throttle.

Willie Sauerland, on 18 April 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

Isn't this one of the purposes of the gyro?

It is there to help the mech maintain stability

and balance while moving.

Doesn't it also affect the ability to fire?

No idea. The purpose of every gyro i've seen was to maintain balance or compensate for lack of balance. Like you give the thing a whack and it rights itself without falling, but you still whacked it out of balance for a second. Nothing predictive about it.

[Tarl Cabot]

Ansel, on 18 April 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:

Adding a RNG system into the convergence of weapons in this game isn't what is needed.

Changing the way armor receives damage is what is needed, putting in the need for a player to actualy cluster shots to breach armor instead of just shooting anywhere on an entire section to do so.

• Just to follow this line of thought, divide the armor sections into 2 or 3 sections.
  
• Have heat mean something by introducing negative effects other than shutdown/ammo explosion
  
  • Mech top speed drops relative to the heat
    
  • Aiming with arm/torso weapons becomes more sluggish
    
  • Pilot Damage - displayed in the cockpit frizzing out, making targeting even more difficult.

[Sam Slade]

Use Advanced Zoom module... get pinpoint accuracy all the time

Fire while moving... get cone of fire that scales with speed,range to target and target acquisition(hello SRM boats)

Fire while not moving... get very slight cone of fire as soon as you reach max range for weapon.

PS: accidently deleted

[blueferral]

Syllogy, on 18 April 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

When I was in the military I used to reliably get Headshots on a man-sized target up to 300m away with an open sight.

When the target is the size of a 4 story building, why is hitting a panel the size of a buss hard to do at 800m?

Did you make those shots while jumping up and down? I have a feeling you were in the prone position with your weapon resting on a sandbag.

[Cyberassassin]

Sug, on 18 April 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

If they can make a mech shake from an AC2 round they can make them shake when running full throttle.


No idea. The purpose of every gyro i've seen was to maintain balance or compensate for lack of balance. Like you give the thing a whack and it rights itself without falling, but you still whacked it out of balance for a second. Nothing predictive about it.

+1 He's got it.

New Dev suggestion: upgraded Gyro for improved stability in addition to C3 Targeting computer upgrade

[Lee Ving]

Syllogy, on 18 April 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

When I was in the military I used to reliably get Headshots on a man-sized target up to 300m away with an open sight.

When the target is the size of a 4 story building, why is hitting a panel the size of a buss hard to do at 800m?

Clearly 1000 years have made it impossible for silicon microchips to adjust for windage, and lasers are effected by that, somehow.

[Marcus Cvellus]

plexi, on 18 April 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

The problem has to do with violating the spirit of combat in the Battletech universe more than anything else in my opinion. All aiming is handled via the Battlemech's fire control computer in universe, which results in inaccuracies when the pilot fires weapons before achieving a positive lock. But in-game, it is far too easy to concentrate fire onto a single component at most ranges, and most mechs seem to die within only a 30 second window of being engaged. Even with double armor (now practically bypassed) engagement times are tiny compared to what they should be to allow for a gradual degradation of the Battlemech (In which positioning, critical slots, and heat management can actually play a more important role)

Read some of the battles from the novels and you'll see the massive difference. Right now MWO's game play feels like just about any other shooter, but with a mechlab. It doesn't feel like Battletech, and pin-point aiming/convergence at all times is one of the issues. I'm not saying to remove it entirely, but alternatives should be looked into, otherwise we're just replicating the exact same mistakes of previous Mechwarrior games.

This.

[Sug]

Tarl Cabot, on 18 April 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

• Just to follow this line of thought, divide the armor sections into 2 or 3 sections.

So....how is that different than a small cone of fire? Seems like the same result to me.

Sam Slade, on 18 April 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Use Advanced Zoom module... get pinpoint accuracy all the time

They fixed it?

[Ansel]

Tarl Cabot, on 18 April 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

• Just to follow this line of thought, divide the armor sections into 2 or 3 sections.
  
• Have heat mean something by introducing negative effects other than shutdown/ammo explosion
  
  • Mech top speed drops relative to the heat
    
  • Aiming with arm/torso weapons becomes more sluggish
    
  • Pilot Damage - displayed in the cockpit frizzing out, making targeting even more difficult.

Ansel, on 17 April 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

Keep the armor sections and the point totals for those sections, weapons would then only deal damage in a footprint to those sections instead of dealing damage to the whole section.

Each weapon would then have it's own footprint, for example the AC-20 would have the largest footprint of the balistic weapons, and the MG having the smallest footprint, missle and spread type weapons would have very large footprints to go with their lower damage so they generate a lot of overlaping area damage, also making them better for splasing damage into areas that the armor was already breached.

If this were implimented fights would take quite a while longer, so I would probly drop armor point totals to 125-150% of TT values instead of 200%.

I'll just quote myself.

[jay35]

Dishevel, on 18 April 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Go play MechWarrior Tactics.
There is no aiming there . It is a much "purer" version of TT.
We should not start down the path of nerfing aiming. It will end up as that other game.

Well said. I was all prepared to drop a comment in here like, "Nope." but then it turned out that was precisely your point.

[Sug]

Lee Ving, on 18 April 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:

Clearly 1000 years have made it impossible for silicon microchips to adjust for windage, and lasers are effected by that, somehow.

Hey until about a month ago we had to lead with those lasers so lets get some suspension of disbelief already.

Dishevel, on 18 April 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Go play MechWarrior Tactics.

Pffff I just load Megamek when I want some real Battletech action.

[jay35]

Ridiculous, on 18 April 2013 - 08:01 AM, said:

Because game balance.

That's not how you achieve balance.