118 replies to this topic

[Dishevel]

Go play MechWarrior Tactics.
There is no aiming there . It is a much "purer" version of TT.
We should not start down the path of nerfing aiming. It will end up as that other game.

[Syllogy]

Aiming is OP.
Teamwork is OP.
Skill is OP.
The nVidia Faery is OP.
Fractal Camo is OP.

This is my nerf list. These must all be nerfed.

[Dishevel]

People want to nerf aiming are why we can't have nice things.

[Sprouticus]

Dishevel, on 18 April 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Go play MechWarrior Tactics.
There is no aiming there . It is a much "purer" version of TT.
We should not start down the path of nerfing aiming. It will end up as that other game.

If aiming is too easy, you end up with the issues we had in MW4/mektek. It was FAR to easy to have pointpoint accuracy @ 800m while poptarting in that game.

That having been said, travel-time weapons and DoT lasers have already put MWO ahead of MW4 in that respect. it is not unreasonable to look at the convergence and whether there should be screen shake while jumping.

To me the average player should be able to hit an enemy mech at 800m. He should not be able to aim and hit a specific panel at that range.

Exceptional player, sure. Average...no.

[Syllogy]

When I was in the military I used to reliably get Headshots on a man-sized target up to 300m away with an open sight.

When the target is the size of a 4 story building, why is hitting a panel the size of a buss hard to do at 800m?

[Triple Patte]

Because game balance.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Syllogy, on 18 April 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

When I was in the military I used to reliably get Headshots on a man-sized target up to 300m away with an open sight.

When the target is the size of a 4 story building, why is hitting a panel the size of a buss hard to do at 800m?

Well if you are going by the books, it was just because they didn't seem to have good sensors/targetting systems in mechs.

If you are going by the game.

It's just boring if all the game is, is aim center mass, shoot, kill.

Why even have the ability to hit other components? And no, do not talk about torso-twisting. That works for LRM's, but a good pilot just waits for you to expose your torso before firing, and you do have to expose it at some point.

I think jump jet screen shake would be the best way to deal with the current issues.

[Syllogy]

Please, illustrate a build that will 1-shot a Cataphract that is facing you without a headshot.

[Endgame124]

Aiming / convergence should be pretty to fix just by looking to classic TT battletech for inspiration. If you're parked (0 speed), allow convergence as it is now. Walking half speed, put in a small convergence penalty (10% less convergence?), if you're running full speed, put in a larger convergence penalty (40% less?). If your jumping add a huge convergence penalty (75%) AND a small cone of fire.

[Timuroslav]

Syllogy, on 18 April 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Aiming is OP.
Teamwork is OP.
Skill is OP.
The nVidia Faery is OP.
Fractal Camo is OP.

This is my nerf list. These must all be nerfed.

the Nvidia Faery is too powerful, standing there looking away from the pilot, with her wings jingling. THIS MUST STOP. How dare she try to replace my sexy Mech voice, with her presence!

[Zerberus]

What really needs to be nerfed is nerfing in general. It`s generally too often and often too much.

[IceSerpent]

Sprouticus, on 18 April 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

That having been said, travel-time weapons and DoT lasers have already put MWO ahead of MW4 in that respect. it is not unreasonable to look at the convergence and whether there should be screen shake while jumping.

Actually, it is unreasonable, as most people tend to choose the most effective config. Nerfing short range weapons into the ground already resulted in virtually everybody piloting snipers, thus increasing engagement range. If you nerf jumpers and torso-mounted weapons, the most effective build will be long range, no JJs, weapons in the arms - everybody will switch to quad PPC Stalkers and all we would get from the whole endeavor is a whole lot of "there's no variety" threads on the forums.

[PLEXI]

The problem has to do with violating the spirit of combat in the Battletech universe more than anything else in my opinion. All aiming is handled via the Battlemech's fire control computer in universe, which results in inaccuracies when the pilot fires weapons before achieving a positive lock. But in-game, it is far too easy to concentrate fire onto a single component at most ranges, and most mechs seem to die within only a 30 second window of being engaged. Even with double armor (now practically bypassed) engagement times are tiny compared to what they should be to allow for a gradual degradation of the Battlemech (In which positioning, critical slots, and heat management can actually play a more important role)

Read some of the battles from the novels and you'll see the massive difference. Right now MWO's game play feels like just about any other shooter, but with a mechlab. It doesn't feel like Battletech, and pin-point aiming/convergence at all times is one of the issues. I'm not saying to remove it entirely, but alternatives should be looked into, otherwise we're just replicating the exact same mistakes of previous Mechwarrior games.

[Sug]

Syllogy, on 18 April 2013 - 07:59 AM, said:

When I was in the military I used to reliably get Headshots on a man-sized target up to 300m away with an open sight.

But were you rocketing over a hill with jumpjets on your feet at the time?

plexi, on 18 April 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

Read some of the battles from the novels and you'll see the massive difference.

There's a long 50+ page thread somewhere about incorporating a cone of fire when you move. You know, like every shooter has had since 1999.

[Willie Sauerland]

Syllogy, on 18 April 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Aiming is OP.
Teamwork is OP.
Skill is OP.
The nVidia Faery is OP.
Fractal Camo is OP.

This is my nerf list. These must all be nerfed.

You forgot the LB-10X.

It is so OP right now and obviously requires

being whacked with the nerf bat...

[Roadbeer]

Syllogy, on 18 April 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Aiming is OP.
Teamwork is OP.
Skill is OP.
The nVidia Faery is OP.
Fractal Camo is OP.

This is my nerf list. These must all be nerfed.

Coconut Monkey needs a buff.

[3rdworld]

Sug, on 18 April 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

But were you rocketing over a hill with jumpjets on your feet at the time?



There's a long 50+ page thread somewhere about incorporating a cone of fire when you move. You know, like every shooter has had since 1999.

Halo would like to talk to you.

And buff assault PPCs boats? Sounds awesome.

Edited by 3rdworld, 18 April 2013 - 08:36 AM.

[AlmightyAeng]

plexi, on 18 April 2013 - 08:27 AM, said:

The problem has to do with violating the spirit of combat in the Battletech universe more than anything else in my opinion. All aiming is handled via the Battlemech's fire control computer in universe, which results in inaccuracies when the pilot fires weapons before achieving a positive lock. But in-game, it is far too easy to concentrate fire onto a single component at most ranges, and most mechs seem to die within only a 30 second window of being engaged. Even with double armor (now practically bypassed) engagement times are tiny compared to what they should be to allow for a gradual degradation of the Battlemech (In which positioning, critical slots, and heat management can actually play a more important role)

Read some of the battles from the novels and you'll see the massive difference. Right now MWO's game play feels like just about any other shooter, but with a mechlab. It doesn't feel like Battletech, and pin-point aiming/convergence at all times is one of the issues. I'm not saying to remove it entirely, but alternatives should be looked into, otherwise we're just replicating the exact same mistakes of previous Mechwarrior games.

While you may be right, most threads devolve into 3 camps:

1) Nerf convergence!
2) Nerfing convergence is stupid, randomness in aiming takes away skill and I hate it.
3) Shouting down any idea that ISN'T a weapon convergence nerf to make the game feel more like Mechwarrior and saying things are fine as is.

For reference: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2253432

[Pablocampy]

IceSerpent, on 18 April 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Actually, it is unreasonable, as most people tend to choose the most effective config. Nerfing short range weapons into the ground already resulted in virtually everybody piloting snipers, thus increasing engagement range. If you nerf jumpers and torso-mounted weapons, the most effective build will be long range, no JJs, weapons in the arms - everybody will switch to quad PPC Stalkers and all we would get from the whole endeavor is a whole lot of "there's no variety" threads on the forums.

Except PPC Stalkers are nowhere near as effective as anything that can poptart:

You move a mech out of cover to pop off however many PPCs your ridiculous boat is carrying then you'll be receiving some return fire in kind as you slowly trundle back to cover. Peak over cover using jump jets unload an alpha and merrily drop back behind cover while taking little to no damage in reply.

We never saw PPC Stalkers become a problem, because they weren't.


Make jump jets shake the screen with the amount of shake being proportional to the weight of the mech. Pop tarting ridiculousness solved without nerfing lighter JJ mechs and without having to add any sort of baked in weapons inaccuracies.

[Lukoi Banacek]

Sug, on 18 April 2013 - 08:31 AM, said:

There's a long 50+ page thread somewhere about incorporating a cone of fire when you move. You know, like every shooter has had since 1999.

Mechs are more akin to Tanks and Aircraft in how they engage targets with weapon systems than the people represented in FPS like BF series, COD etc. So your joke falls flat.