91 replies to this topic

[Hagetaka]

Davions - we cuddle the Inner Sphere (and their leaders) then joke about it

WE'RE THE GOOD GUYS

Edited by Niko Snow, 03 November 2012 - 10:22 AM.
Code of Conduct

[Battalia]

I'll be honest, the first group I'll be joining will be the one to get me in a stalker the quickest.

While everyone has an interesting point and tidbit about history... None of that has happened yet in MWO, so as far as im concerned, its a blank slate right now

[Hykelion]

Hagetaka, on 13 June 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

Davions - we [cuddle] the Inner Sphere (and their leaders) then joke about it

WE'RE THE GOOD GUYS

Sounds about right. Have you SEEN the other factions?

Edited by Niko Snow, 03 November 2012 - 10:23 AM.
Quote Edit

[Urgewyrm]

Hykelion, on 13 June 2012 - 08:29 AM, said:

Sounds about right. Have you SEEN the other factions?

Yeah, Steiner was just asking for it being so hot in that fancy, expensive dress!

[Hykelion]

Urgewyrm, on 13 June 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Yeah, Steiner was just asking for it being so hot in that fancy, expensive dress!

I'm not arguing against your point on Davion history. Just pointing out that compared to it, just about every other House has done something just as terrible or worse. No one involved in the Succession Wars is a 'good guy'. The last person that could make any claim on that took the entire SLDF and got the hell out of the Inner Sphere... and even then, his son made the clans.

[Max Liao]

I'll have to read my sourcebooks again, but I don't think that every other house has has TWO major civil wars that (probably) cost the lives of more people than the 4th Succession War - each time. Let's not count their wars against Taurus and their willingness to suckle the teat of the Camerons to bring war to everyone else.

Like all other poor people who aren't even literate enough to farm but swear they know all there is to know about politics (:breath:) the FedRats just like to club people over the head.

[DerMaulwurf]

Hykelion, on 13 June 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

I'm not arguing against your point on Davion history. Just pointing out that compared to it, just about every other House has done something just as terrible or worse. No one involved in the Succession Wars is a 'good guy'. The last person that could make any claim on that took the entire SLDF and got the hell out of the Inner Sphere... and even then, his son made the clans.

But House Davion always claims to be the "good guy". The Snakes are at least honest in their megalomaniacal aims.

I'm not denying that my house had it's share of tyrants like Claudius Steiner, even without Davion help. It's Catherine Steiner-Davion and considering the character of her mother there are reasonable suspicions where the crazy came from. But they stuck to oppressing their own people instead of trying to share their messianic complex with everybody else.

[Hykelion]

DerMaulwurf, on 13 June 2012 - 11:53 AM, said:

But House Davion always claims to be the "good guy".

Propaganda is a major part of war. Might as well claim the moral high ground first.

[Nathan Sharp]

Amazing how every limp, butter knife, holder guy thinks we are so...aggressive...if your former celestial buffoon had his way, House Davion would been taken over by an actor/double, who had his life was stolen from him. Thank God we have General Sortek on our side...and you got Romano/Sun-tzu...shes is nuts/he is just mad at the world...neat being led by the mad. Get a real arguement, Liaoists, and then back it up.

jus sayin

[Chuggernaut]

Duncan Davion, on 13 June 2012 - 03:03 PM, said:

Amazing how every limp, butter knife, holder guy thinks we are so...aggressive...if your former celestial buffoon had his way, House Davion would been taken over by an actor/double, who had his life was stolen from him. Thank God we have General Sortek on our side...and you got Romano/Sun-tzu...shes is nuts/he is just mad at the world...neat being led by the mad. Get a real arguement, Liaoists, and then back it up.

jus sayin

That was at least interesting. It sure beats attacking the smallest guy you can because it makes you feel like a man. Don't get more boring than a bully.

Edited by Chuggernaut, 13 June 2012 - 04:06 PM.

[Sigmund Sandoval]

Jad Ivask, on 12 June 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

...The Taurian Concordat begs to differ. Very, very stringently.

I will not endeavor to marginalize the periphery states. The nature of galactic geography has done a fine job of doing that already. If they mattered enough to be under constant threat by several of the greatest militaries in the inner sphere I am certain that it would be a much different story. There is a reason why every House has adopted a feudalistic form of government after all. I am certain that their slap fight with the ladies on Canopus can be handled quite well by committee.

[Jad Ivask]

Max Liao, on 13 June 2012 - 09:54 AM, said:

I'll have to read my sourcebooks again, but I don't think that every other house has has TWO major civil wars that (probably) cost the lives of more people than the 4th Succession War - each time. Let's not count their wars against Taurus and their willingness to suckle the teat of the Camerons to bring war to everyone else.

Like all other poor people who aren't even literate enough to farm but swear they know all there is to know about politics (:breath:) the FedRats just like to club people over the head.

I always have enjoyed that that the Federated Suns has had such trouble with the Taurians. Hell, the Capellans have more than a little bit of their **** kicked in by the Concordat too. The Bulls just refuse to fragging stay down.

[Bastard Ken]

Engage people with what they expect; it is what they are able to discern and confirms their projections. It settles them into predictable patterns of response, occupying their minds while you wait for the extraordinary moment — that which they cannot anticipate.

[Donovan Jenks]

House Davion embodies alot of ideals that are part of a feudal martial culture. They have highly advanced medical and science reseach capabilities at the New Avalon Institute of Science and were instrumental in diciphering the Start League memory core discovered on Helm by the Gray Death Legion. These dicoveries lead to many of the innovation seen in TR:3050 along with the ability to start producing warships again with FTL drives which had not been done since the 1st Succession War.

Hanse Davion was a visionary leader and took many risks, some that proved costly, but most helped to consolidate power among the warring factions and bring peace prior to the invasion of the Clans. Their military is generally reguarded as the best in the Inner Sphere and accomplished soldiers can expect to rise high in the Federated Suns military or political structure. He worked to form the single greatest house in the inner sphere since the Star League. and Hi son Victor would go on to form the new Star League and defeat the Clans ending the threat to Terra.

Many mecenaries enjoy long or permanent contract with the Federated Suns becasue of the generous salvage clauses and how they are treated among the military. Wolf's Dragoons, Kell Hounds, Eridani Light Horse, Northwind Highlanders, Gray Death Legion and Waco Rangers are all famous merc outfits that have enjoyed many lucrative years of service with the Federated Suns.

Regardless of the feelings of the Draconis Combine and Capellan Confederation the Federated Suns action help to save the Inner Sphere for the pillaging of Blake's rabid followers.

[Chuggernaut]

Couple things-

Anastasius Focht defeated the Clans. Victor was his deputy and field leader, which meant Focht did all the actual strategy and planning while Victor ran around in a mech. Focht let him and the Superfriends take credit for it because he saw their value as figureheads to rally people around. He knew he was getting older and he had to think about building up another guy to be The Hero.

This is a pattern Victor fell into during the FCCW, where Morgan Kell and Ardan Sortek ran the show while Victor was fighting individual battles. Like it says in the FCCW sourcebook, if he was a battalion commander he'd be great. Point him at something and tell him to kill. But he barely has any idea of how to maneuver in a regimental-sized battle, let alone anything larger. If he didn't have a Daishi to keep him alive and dudes like his dad or Focht or Kell to actually run the army he'd be dead twenty times over. Just look at what happened to the only things he's had to be The Guy for: the Federated Commonwealth and the Com Guard. Run into the ground and disbanded, both of them.

The GDL and Kell Hounds never took long-term contracts with the FS. The Northwind Highlanders mutinined, mainly due to Victor's policy on supplies. And the Waco Rangers are not someone you want to really boast about being associated with.

Edited by Chuggernaut, 19 June 2012 - 12:11 PM.

[Qin]

Chuggernaut, on 19 June 2012 - 12:08 PM, said:

Couple things-

Anastasius Focht defeated the Clans. Victor was his deputy and field leader, which meant Focht did all the actual strategy and planning while Victor ran around in a mech. Focht let him and the Superfriends take credit for it because he saw their value as figureheads to rally people around. He knew he was getting older and he had to think about building up another guy to be The Hero.

This is a pattern Victor fell into during the FCCW, where Morgan Kell and Ardan Sortek ran the show while Victor was fighting individual battles. Like it says in the FCCW sourcebook, if he was a battalion commander he'd be great. Point him at something and tell him to kill. But he barely has any idea of how to maneuver in a regimental-sized battle, let alone anything larger. If he didn't have a Daishi to keep him alive and dudes like his dad or Focht or Kell to actually run the army he'd be dead twenty times over. Just look at what happened to the only things he's had to be The Guy for: the Federated Commonwealth and the Com Guard. Run into the ground and disbanded, both of them.

The GDL and Kell Hounds never took long-term contracts with the FS. The Northwind Highlanders mutinined, mainly due to Victor's policy on supplies. And the Waco Rangers are not someone you want to really boast about being associated with.

Focht defeated the clans on Tukayyid, but Victor was not even near it. During that time he rescued Hohiro Kurita.
By the time Victor became the deputy of Focht he had grown from a small unit commander to a leader of large forces. You honestly think Focht would leave the Com Guard in the hands of somebody who would not be capable of leading such forces? They took him because he was one of the best options.

Davions are prone to lead from the front, certainly not the best thing good commanders should do, but they do feel that they should do the same things that they put their troops trough.

To simply dismiss Victor Steiner-Davion as some mechjock that needs others to do the strategy and planning has not been reading the books. Then again if you dont like the character its easy to gloss over everything and make something up that suits your convictions.

GDL, has strong affiliation with Steiner. Kell Hounds, the same, a merc unit with strong ties to Steiner. Including planets, long term contracts with Steiner etc, why would they go somewhere else?

They wrote a whole book on the Northwind Highlanders fight for independence. If it where only as simple as some supplies.

[Tarrasque]

I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this back and forth regarding politics in the IS.

[Vandal]

Qin, on 19 June 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

To simply dismiss Victor Steiner-Davion as some mechjock that needs others to do the strategy and planning has not been reading the books. Then again if you dont like the character its easy to gloss over everything and make something up that suits your convictions.

Pretty much all of the battletech novels that are not Wolves On The Border are worthless pulpy trash. The real heart of Battletech has always been in the sourcebooks that actually detail the history and personae objectively, as opposed to books that deify author-favorite characters. The five original house sourcebooks are still, in my opinion, the best written aspect of battletech to this date.

[Chuggernaut]

I don't have to "make anything up" to dismiss Victor. The FCCW sourcebook does that for me. A pro-Vic General in the 23rd Arcturan breaks down exactly how Victor works. Have YOU ever read the sourcebooks? Because the novels never depict Victor doing any more planning than picking units to come with him to whatever fight, so they're no indication of his planning, which lines up pretty well with the information that we get from the FCCWSB and later Jihad books.

[PicardDay]

Hykelion, on 13 June 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

I'm not arguing against your point on Davion history. Just pointing out that compared to it, just about every other House has done something just as terrible or worse. No one involved in the Succession Wars is a 'good guy'. The last person that could make any claim on that took the entire SLDF and got the hell out of the Inner Sphere... and even then, his son made the clans.

Actually, Alexander Kerensky did a really huge number of horribly awful things during the uprisings. The part of the Amaris Uprising people like to forget is where Kerensky rolled into the TC/MoC/OWA and the former RWR and commited a huge number of war crimes including almost unrestrained WMD use. The fact of the matter is that half of the Rim World Republic worlds on the map are now in the Lyran Commonwealth.. and the other half simply don't exist anymore (in terms of human habitation). Kerensky was not by any means a "good guy"

Also, how in the world can anyone associate Victor Steiner-Davion and good ideas? During his tenure as First Prince of the Federated Suns he was instrumental in placing Sun-Tzu Liao on the throne as First Lord of the new Star League - a move I personally was a fan of but was pretty much the worst possible thing that could happen for the Federated Suns. Not only that, dude literally joined up with Devlin Stone after the Jihad and helped the Republic of the Sphere steal some of the Fedsuns most important industrial centers.

Anyways, the year is 3049, so Fedsuns should try to enjoy the few good years of military success you have left before VSD runs your entire nation into the ground.