220 replies to this topic

[DaPwnageMachine]

Bring it back in a way that can't be abused.  Rewards are now incentives based on performance instead of just win or loss, so it actually wouldn't be viable to make money by trial suiciding. .

Reincrease the heat on energy weapons massively so that boating actually takes more skill than just having mastered coolrun with +18 double heat sinks.

Gauss boats, SRM boats, and LRM boats?  Make refilling ammo extra expensive to the point where you would actually make it costly to take one just like how it was costly to take an XL engine or an Atlas.

Want more medium mechs?  Make repairing heavy mechs and assault mechs so costly to repair that you would want a light or medium in your mechbay to make money off of.  Introduce a "skill" bonus in cbills earned based on kills that would be greater for lights and mediums while having a smaller bonus or heavies and assaults.  Of course, such a bonus should not be introduced until after collisions are brought back correctly.  Bring skill back to light mechs with collisions.

There you go, instant balance for all weapons that everyone is crying OP about every patch.  I don't bout you guys, but the game was so much more fun and deep when the economy was in place despite it's massive exploit that ruined it.  With the economy gone, I have no interest in this game with nothing to play for and I think a lot of players are feeling hte same way.  I think we're in a much better position now to prevent that trial run suiciding exploit and bring this game back to the way it was supposed to be.

Edited by DaPwnageMachine, 18 April 2013 - 11:08 AM.

[jay35]

No.

[TruePoindexter]

This has been gone over to death. R&R simply punishes players for playing well and rewards idiocy (running from fights and dcing, preferring fast deaths, hiding). Further using the game's economy to balance the game never works as it either makes things prohibitively expensive (like FF armor was) or only within reach of the richest players.

In short - no it can stay gone.

[ManDaisy]

Enjoy it while you can jay. Soon as CW starts I expect you to Q_Q till the cows come home.

There are 2 reasons why R&R was removed:

1) New game, low player base, high barrier to entry.
2) Weapon + equipment balancing did not need to be impeded by cost, so it was removed so better results could be obtained.


In short once these two factors are overcome by time and balancing, R&R is 100% guaranteed to make it back.

Edited by ManDaisy, 18 April 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[Viper69]

May I say for me and about 1,000 other people OP...Screw you and the horse you and that idea rode in on.

Then wipe everyone's Cbills come CW then. As it is you have thousands of people that can buy multiple jumpships/dropships, you think R& R will effect them?

[TOGSolid]

Oh god, not this **** again.

[DaPwnageMachine]

Ok. Go back to complaining about the next OP weapon over and over and over and over and over and over. Cause that's obviously what this game has been reduced to, thanks to you guys of course, and thats what you guys simply enjoy most about this game apparently. I don't get it.

Edited by DaPwnageMachine, 18 April 2013 - 11:12 AM.

[Mercules]

R&R would mitigate certain builds without the free 75%. Bring it on Devs, I'd embrase the challenge.

[TruePoindexter]

DaPwnageMachine, on 18 April 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Ok. Go back to complaining about the next OP weapon over and over and over and over and over and over. Cause that's obviously more fun for you guys lol

Well I'm definitely not part of that camp. Please avoid assumptions because it hurts my Stalker's feelings - he's already so ugly.

The problem with R&R is that it is fundamentally an unfriendly system to players on both ends of the spectrum. A bad player is continually punished because they already don't win as often as a good player and so earn much less money. Further the way R&R worked in relation to the meta game in MWO punished good play to an extent too. A good player distributes damage across their mech making deaths usually involve a full mech repair. Poor players tend to die faster through just CT coring resulting in a cheaper bill. Finally there's the opportunity for griefing by not just killing the last mech but destroying every component before killing.

[DaPwnageMachine]

Viper69, on 18 April 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

May I say for me and about 1,000 other people OP...Screw you and the horse you and that idea rode in on.

Then wipe everyone's Cbills come CW then. As it is you have thousands of people that can buy multiple jumpships/dropships, you think R& R will effect them?

I can take another wipe. It's not a problem for me if it means bringing this game back to what it was supposed to be instead of just "pick the current OP weapon until it gets nerfed, cry about it, then pick the next OP weapon until it gets nerfed."

[TOGSolid]

DaPwnageMachine, on 18 April 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Ok. Go back to complaining about the next OP weapon over and over and over and over and over and over. Cause that's obviously what this game has been reduced to, thanks to you guys of course, and thats what you guys simply enjoy most about this game apparently. I don't get it.

Your system won't solve anything. This topic has been done to death and R&R supporters get shutdown every time because your argument is inherently flawed. Tell me how R&R will stop a good player from running a PPC Stalker. Oh wait, it won't. It ONLY punishes the new and the less skilled. That's it.

There are legitimate issues with the game balance and bringing back a system that didn't fix a ******** thing when it was in game won't help.

[jay35]

DaPwnageMachine, on 18 April 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Ok. Go back to complaining about the next OP weapon over and over and over and over and over and over. Cause that's obviously what this game has been reduced to, thanks to you guys of course, and thats what you guys simply enjoy most about this game apparently. I don't get it.

yeah, sorry but first of all, you have the wrong people. and second, it's not an either-or proposition. rejecting R&R does not mean someone can't complain about a perceived imbalance. balancing is properly done without resorting to punitive measures and what amount to ingame paywalls. that said, if you paid attention, a lot of the people who reject R&R are also the ones in the nerf request threads stating that there's not really an imbalance and people need to learn how to adapt and overcome.

ManDaisy, on 18 April 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Enjoy it while you can jay. Soon as CW starts I expect you to Q_Q till the cows come home.

mmm, no, I have faith the devs will keep the game fun and enjoyable.

As for your edit:

Quote

There are 2 reasons why R&R was removed:

1) New game, low player base, high barrier to entry.
2) Weapon + equipment balancing did not need to be impeded by cost, so it was removed so better results could be obtained.


In short once these two factors are overcome by time and balancing, R&R is 100% guaranteed to make it back.

So, considering weapon and equipment balancing is always done better without using cost to create artificial impediments, and since there will always be new players and a desire to attract them, there's no reason for it to ever return, at least not in any form that results in the same nonsense that the previous iteration did that precludes portions of the playerbase from ever accessing or using signifcant portions of the content, or makes matches where you don't win handily a complete waste of time due to little or no compensation and a punitive result. Quickest way to turn people off is to give them the feeling they're not getting anywhere, not making any progress, or worse, are losing ground ingame-currency-wise. Any mechanic that can have that result is broken, period. It can only hurt the user experience and as such it should rightly be rejected.

Edited by jay35, 18 April 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[Fut]

Mercules, on 18 April 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

R&R would mitigate certain builds without the free 75%. Bring it on Devs, I'd embrace the challenge.

Yes!! Bring it on!
This is the attitude that people should have. Part of the fun in Mechwarrior is that it's challenging.
People who don't want R&R back are either lazy, or they only like games when they're easy.

To me, MW:O won't feel like Battletech until R&R is brought back.

[Suprentus]

I do think R&R should come back in some way, shape, or form, but your ideas are horrible, OP.

[Ransack]

No.

Unless energy weapon users get a similar money sink.

Edited by Ransack, 18 April 2013 - 11:46 AM.

[TOGSolid]

Fut, on 18 April 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yes!! Bring it on!
This is the attitude that people should have. Part of the fun in Mechwarrior is that it's challenging.
People who don't want R&R back are either lazy, or they only like games when they're easy.

To me, MW:O won't feel like Battletech until R&R is brought back.

Except there is no R&R in Battletech.

Unless of course you mean that you desperately just want to RP Bob Kerensky, the long lost clone brother while you're in game because you really liked that one book with the thing and the reactor explosions.

[Royalewithcheese]

Multiplayer games that are "balanced" by economics aren't balanced at all.

Edited by Royalewithcheese, 18 April 2013 - 11:20 AM.

[DaPwnageMachine]

TruePoindexter, on 18 April 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

Well I'm definitely not part of that camp. Please avoid assumptions because it hurts my Stalker's feelings - he's already so ugly.

The problem with R&R is that it is fundamentally an unfriendly system to players on both ends of the spectrum. A bad player is continually punished because they already don't win as often as a good player and so earn much less money. Further the way R&R worked in relation to the meta game in MWO punished good play to an extent too. A good player distributes damage across their mech making deaths usually involve a full mech repair. Poor players tend to die faster through just CT coring resulting in a cheaper bill. Finally there's the opportunity for griefing by not just killing the last mech but destroying every component before killing.

The other team decided to grief you by making your mech suffer extra more damage than it needs to? Get over it, that's the internet.

TOGSolid, on 18 April 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

Your system won't solve anything. This topic has been done to death and R&R supporters get shutdown every time because your argument is inherently flawed. Tell me how R&R will stop a good player from running a PPC Stalker. Oh wait, it won't. It ONLY punishes the new and the less skilled. That's it.

There are legitimate issues with the game balance and bringing back a system that didn't fix a ******** thing when it was in game won't help.

If a person takes a PPC boat can manage the heavy heat increase at a close stressful range with a short range brawler, then hats off to him. Skill is OP.

There are various ways to combat a lot of the bad stuff that R&R brought with. A lot of it can be done by the community. GOt a teammate whos hiding to avoid damage? Report his position to the other team. In the most extreme ways, they could even implement a full loss on your mech if ur base was capped. I wouldn't mind that and that would definitely encourage mroe teams to play more defensively and use scouts accordingly. There are many ways to fix the problems R&R had but everyone would rather just take it out instead of making a better game out of a great, despite being flawed, concept.

Edited by DaPwnageMachine, 18 April 2013 - 11:25 AM.

[TOGSolid]

Quote

There are many ways to fix the problems R&R had but everyone would rather just take it out instead of making a better game out of a great, despite being flawed, concept

You have yet to list any of them.

[Philadelphia Collins]

ManDaisy, on 18 April 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Enjoy it while you can jay. Soon as CW starts I expect you to Q_Q till the cows come home.

There are 2 reasons why R&R was removed:

1) New game, low player base, high barrier to entry.
2) Weapon + equipment balancing did not need to be impeded by cost, so it was removed so better results could be obtained.


In short once these two factors are overcome by time and balancing, R&R is 100% guaranteed to make it back.

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