220 replies to this topic

[TOGSolid]

malibu43, on 18 April 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

R&R was so P2W it wasn't even funny. I don't understand how people asking for it to come back can overlook that.

Because:

IT'LL FIX EVERYTHING! YEP! NO PROBLEMS R&R! IT IS BEST SYSTEM!

[Inkarnus]

aha so you got no arguments there goes the trolling sigh
again not RandR should be back
something like RandR
and iam making now a topic who wants to drive always in assaults and who doesnt
and such to make a point ty very trolly

[TOGSolid]

Inkarnus, on 18 April 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

aha so you got no arguments there goes the trolling sigh
again not RandR should be back
something like RandR
and iam making now a topic who wants to drive always in assaults and who doesnt
and such to make a point ty very trolly

You have yet to propose a system that would fix R&R's problems. We're still waiting for your brilliant solution. We've poked a ton of holes in everything you've said and you're sticking your fingers in your ears and screaming "lalalalala I'm right you're wrong." That "troll post" i just did? It's exactly what you're doing with every post you make.

Edited by TOGSolid, 18 April 2013 - 04:02 PM.

[Davers]

malibu43, on 18 April 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

R&R was so P2W it wasn't even funny. I don't understand how people asking for it to come back can overlook that.

Because they think they won't be affected by it, but it will be a limitation for everyone else.

People have strange ideas when it comes to Battletech. There are players who ACTUALLY BELIEVE that Clan mechs should be so powerful that you would be lucky to kill even a single mech, and that losing every match against them would be fun because it is 'realistic'.

[INSEkT L0GIC]

*double facepalm at people saying Rearm & Repair is not a part of BattleTech*

Read your campaign rules and mercenary handbooks for Kerensky's sake!!

These are probably the same people that complain about Guardian ECM implementation not matching because they fail to read the double blind / tournament & other extended rules for it. Meh.

[TOGSolid]

Davers, on 18 April 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Because they think they won't be affected by it, but it will be a limitation for everyone else.

People have strange ideas when it comes to Battletech. There are players who ACTUALLY BELIEVE that Clan mechs should be so powerful that you would be lucky to kill even a single mech, and that losing every match against them would be fun because it is 'realistic'.

It'll be hilarious if PGI limits clan mechs the way they were in TT. You want your omnimech? You got it, but you can't change the engine, the armor, the endoskeleton, or the systems out.

Quote

These are probably the same people that complain about Guardian ECM implementation not matching because they fail to read the double blind / tournament & other extended rules for it. Meh.

Everything is perfect! Just read these obscure rules in other books! See!? ECM is perfectly balanced!

Edited by TOGSolid, 18 April 2013 - 04:06 PM.

[Davers]

Inkarnus, on 18 April 2013 - 03:59 PM, said:

aha so you got no arguments there goes the trolling sigh
again not RandR should be back
something like RandR
and iam making now a topic who wants to drive always in assaults and who doesnt
and such to make a point ty very trolly

Try this.

Play a medium mech with no dhs, endo, ff, xl engines, gauss, SSRMS, ERPPCs, pulse lasers, or ERLL. No ECM on a Cicada either.

Now play a few games. Just imagine all your opponents are people willing to pay real money to run their mechs. Then tell me how fair/fun it is.

[0I0]

After reading this entirely too long thread heres what I see.

1. Games inbalanced, so heres what worked 10 years ago
2. Weapons are inbalanced, so in some way shape or form, use a R&R
3. Players are abusing weapons(never gotten this concept, its like saying you have allot of money...and spend it too much)
4. Players are constantly looking for OP builds, and cycling them as nefr/buffs come down the patch-line

On the other end of the arguement

1. R&R makes it harder for newer players to get involved
2. It drastically slows down your mech/weapon purchase
3. It potentially turns they game into a P2W model(less creds, well darn, go buy some MC or get better?)
4. Ultimately does not solve the core issue, inbalanced weapons

As far as the flippant remarks going back and forth, meh one side thinks there lazy, the other side thinks you want a game that existed in a prior iteration.

IMO, solve weapon balancing first, then look at this as a potential mechanic to add to the game. If it "adds" to the players experience I.E increases desire to play, increases entertainment through a complex risk/reward management, and does not punish those at the lower end but simply makes it another challenge to overcome.

If however were just trying to answer those annoying pepsistalkers, poptarts, and various other cheese builds, then you've failed completely to grasp the concept of game balance. Since, ya know, the devs aren't here to change game mechanics to make your life easier(or harder since thats what R&R does).

Let the game flesh out, wait for CW, continue to wait for more balancing, accept that were in BETA, and most of all stop fighting to make this game what it was in a prior iteration.

As always, just my opinion.

[jay35]

Inkarnus, on 18 April 2013 - 03:25 PM, said:

it happened the last time cuz they could repair rearm for free -.- keep to the facts and i didnt say that
they shouldnt i say they can but that the more lowtech u use the more the reward to stop the curve that makes
the sheet so frustrating to look at.
and shamelessly plugging this sheet to underline my state of the weightbalance
[my point was that we have now Assaultmech online instead of mixed mech online]


all props to the author
http://mwomercs.com/...of-data-inside/

Congrats on ripping data out of context and trying to use it to prop up a false claim.
That was the week the Heavy Metal was released and everyone was encouraged to use Hero and Founders mechs with an extra cbills and xp bonus. 3 of the top 5 are that high up the list because of that.

Edited by jay35, 18 April 2013 - 04:25 PM.

[Inkarnus]

dude now is it totally different eh? now they just use all highlanders top 1-5 XD
dont gimme that bullcrap


BTW when start to fight when the game already sunk?
Beta means there are still changes so why not yet?
later means that all stuff gets more and more complicatet wich means
that it mostlikeley wont be changed in anyway

To get back on
advanced RandR MK 2.0
lets say everything stays like it is now
but if you take lowtech you even get more money without any drawbacks
who would cry over that ?
just fools but well i in my imagination find mechwarrior
rally shining in diversity and not all running 100ton assault poptarts nonstop
because they are forced too to get some enjoyment
thats the drawback for the new player thats the drawback for the lower skill player
not playing what is fun and it isnt fun to be crushed by 60 ton more weight since they
can

Edited by Inkarnus, 18 April 2013 - 04:37 PM.

[TOGSolid]

Inkarnus, on 18 April 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

dude now is it totally different eh? now they just use all highlanders top 1-5 XD
dont gimme that bullcrap

Still trying to dodge everyone's questions and divert the conversation to avoid the points we're bringing up, eh?

[ManDaisy]

http://mwomercs.com/...for-mercs-only/


Here is a poll for ya, I admit its biased towards my opinions.

[Davers]

Inkarnus, on 18 April 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

dude now is it totally different eh? now they just use all highlanders top 1-5 XD
dont gimme that bullcrap

You have yet to say why people playing assault mechs are a problem, other than that you don't like it.

[Inkarnus]

To get back on
advanced RandR MK 2.0
lets say everything stays like it is now
but if you take lowtech you even get more money without any drawbacks
who would cry over that ?
just fools but well i in my imagination find mechwarrior
rally shining in diversity and not all running 100ton assault poptarts nonstop
because they are forced too to get some enjoyment
thats the drawback for the new player thats the drawback for the lower skill player
not playing what is fun and it isnt fun to be crushed by 60 ton more weight since they
can

Edited by Inkarnus, 18 April 2013 - 04:40 PM.

[INSEkT L0GIC]

How about this as a Rearm & Repair rework?

1. The damaged Mech is offline for an hour or more depending on the amount of damages and associated C-Bill cost while it is being repaired & rearmed in its Mech Bay by your maintenance crew. This acts as a time sink rather than money sink. The player can wait for the timer to run out and then the Mech is all shiny and new again without cost to the player to bring it back online & fully operational.

2. Player can opt to pay C-Bills to make R&R act as an immediate (or near-immediate) fix. Player pays to prioritize acquisition of parts & labor by maintenance crew. Player pays for convenience of jumping back into a match rather than waiting or having to select another Mech while they wait.

3. Optional: Timer duration reduction and/or discount to R&R cost if Cadet Bonus active, Premium Time active, Founder Mech, Hero Mech, Champion Mech, GXP unlock, etc.

I've posted similar suggestions to R&R threads before with little or no feedback, so who knows.

[TOGSolid]

Quote

rally shining in diversity and not all running 100ton assault poptarts nonstop
because they are forced too to get some enjoyment
thats the drawback for the new player thats the drawback for the lower skill player
not playing what is fun and it isnt fun to be crushed by 60 ton more weight since they
can

Tonnage Limits
/thread

Edited by TOGSolid, 18 April 2013 - 04:43 PM.

[Panzerman03]

INSEkT L0GIC, on 18 April 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

How about this as a Rearm & Repair rework?

1. The damaged Mech is offline for an hour or more depending on the amount of damages and associated C-Bill cost while it is being repaired & rearmed in its Mech Bay by your maintenance crew. This acts as a time sink rather than money sink. The player can wait for the timer to run out and then the Mech is all shiny and new again without cost to the player to bring it back online & fully operational.

2. Player can opt to pay C-Bills to make R&R act as an immediate (or near-immediate) fix. Player pays to prioritize acquisition of parts & labor by maintenance crew. Player pays for convenience of jumping back into a match rather than waiting or having to select another Mech while they wait.

3. Optional: Timer duration reduction and/or discount to R&R cost if Cadet Bonus active, Premium Time active, Founder Mech, Hero Mech, Champion Mech, GXP unlock, etc.

I've posted similar suggestions to R&R threads before with little or no feedback, so who knows.

It's a terrible idea. I'm already annoyed that I'm locked out of a mech for 30 seconds at the finish of a match. Any game mechanic that actively discourages actually playing the game is a terrible idea.

[Hellcat420]

TOGSolid, on 18 April 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

It'll be hilarious if PGI limits clan mechs the way they were in TT. You want your omnimech? You got it, but you can't change the engine, the armor, the endoskeleton, or the systems out.

that would be fine if the is mechs had their restrictions as well, but then you wouldnt really have a mechlab anymore.

[Davers]

Inkarnus, on 18 April 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

To get back on
advanced RandR MK 2.0
lets say everything stays like it is now
but if you take lowtech you even get more money without any drawbacks
who would cry over that ?
just fools but well i in my imagination find mechwarrior
rally shining in diversity and not all running 100ton assault poptarts nonstop
because they are forced too to get some enjoyment
thats the drawback for the new player thats the drawback for the lower skill player
not playing what is fun and it isnt fun to be crushed by 60 ton more weight since they
can

You are just not wanting to hear what people are saying.

R&R does not mean no one will run assault mechs. It just means new players won't be able to. So they will still have to fight them, but can't use them themselves.

Even in your 'example' you have players starting off with Commandos and then upgrading to bigger mechs. This means that experienced players will be running assaults and new players will just have to wait a long time until they can.

Who are you to dictate what mechs are appropriate for players to use? Just because you can't deal with poptart assault mechs doesn't mean other people can't. Imagine you are losing to them, and you can't afford to even change your load out to adjust for this 'new tactic' because you can't make Cbills.

[TOGSolid]

Hellcat420, on 18 April 2013 - 04:46 PM, said:

that would be fine if the is mechs had their restrictions as well, but then you wouldnt really have a mechlab anymore.

I didn't say it was a good idea. Just a funny one.

Davers, on 18 April 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

You are just not wanting to hear what people are saying.

R&R does not mean no one will run assault mechs. It just means new players won't be able to. So they will still have to fight them, but can't use them themselves.

Even in your 'example' you have players starting off with Commandos and then upgrading to bigger mechs. This means that experienced players will be running assaults and new players will just have to wait a long time until they can.

Who are you to dictate what mechs are appropriate for players to use? Just because you can't deal with poptart assault mechs doesn't mean other people can't. Imagine you are losing to them, and you can't afford to even change your load out to adjust for this 'new tactic' because you can't make Cbills.

He already admitted that Veteran players would be able to drive whatever they wanted. I'm not sure how he can possibly think his argument carries any weight at this point.

Edited by TOGSolid, 18 April 2013 - 04:59 PM.