85 replies to this topic

[Ranek Blackstone]

Royalewithcheese, on 19 April 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

I have mixed feelings about this - my suspicion is that you'll run into issues where some options for a given weight class are strictly better than other options. For instance the Kit Fox is basically dead on arrival because it's a light mech that moves at around 100 kph.

It's a stated Omni weakness. Armor, engine and structure type can not be changed. So a timber wolf (mad cat) MUST run FF armor(7 slot clan model), Endo steel (again 7 slot clan model) AND an Xl375 engine. Sure you get to pack what ever you want in the remaining Omni hardpoints, crit slots and tonnage, but you're still only as armored as an Orion, and I'm pretty good at hitting fast moving mechs at range with my AC5s.

[Merrik Starchaser]

Saying this loud for the people who still cannot seem to get it.


CLAN TECH IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE BALANCED!!!


Clan tech is supposed to be superior in every way.


If you want to compete
Replace IS gear with clantech or die!
edit:the only acceptable balance is asymmetric drops when IS units fight clans IS side gets more mechs.

Edited by Merrik Starchaser, 19 April 2013 - 01:28 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Ranek Blackstone, on 19 April 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

It's a stated Omni weakness. Armor, engine and structure type can not be changed. So a timber wolf (mad cat) MUST run FF armor(7 slot clan model), Endo steel (again 7 slot clan model) AND an Xl375 engine. Sure you get to pack what ever you want in the remaining Omni hardpoints, crit slots and tonnage, but you're still only as armored as an Orion, and I'm pretty good at hitting fast moving mechs at range with my AC5s.

So what's the actual advantage of Omnimechs in MW:O?

I can switch out weapons for free and in no time on Non-Omnis. What's the point in having Omnis?

[Merrik Starchaser]

Ranek Blackstone, on 19 April 2013 - 01:20 PM, said:

It's a stated Omni weakness. Armor, engine and structure type can not be changed. So a timber wolf (mad cat) MUST run FF armor(7 slot clan model), Endo steel (again 7 slot clan model) AND an Xl375 engine. Sure you get to pack what ever you want in the remaining Omni hardpoints, crit slots and tonnage, but you're still only as armored as an Orion, and I'm pretty good at hitting fast moving mechs at range with my AC5s.

except then IS mechs would be limited to their stock variants completely...

[jay35]

Sadistic Savior, on 19 April 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

Exactly the same way as we did in TT...numbers.

It worked fine in TT. It will work fine here too.

Uhm, that's certainly not a given. A lot of things related to TT don't work well in a first-person real-time FPS game.

[FunkyFritter]

-Clan tech can be put on any mech
-Class chassis have omnitech that has advantages and disadvantages compared to traditional designs

[Deathlike]

I'm waiting for the day where people say "the Clan ER Large Laser is OP" on the Hunchback and the Awesome's heads.

Edited by Deathlike, 19 April 2013 - 02:06 PM.

[PaintedWolf]

Remove hard points, make it so it is a Star vs a Company. Balance is maintained by the fact that Clans are then outnumbered nearly 3 to 1, but to make up for it they get increased customization (since Omni Mechs are MORE not less flexible) and better Tech.

[Chief 117]

It is like asking "How do I balance a T-34 against an M1A1 Abrams?"
!You just DON'T!

Edited by Chief 117, 19 April 2013 - 02:12 PM.

[Atayu]

Allot of you have already used the clan medium laser, er large laser, LRM's, uac 5s. That I have noticed. You know where the standard weapon changed for 1 patch to be slightly stronger (witch allot of people screamed OP at the weapons at the time). Well there was there numbers testing for the clan types of those weapons. Or do people think the really changed weapon damage, ranges, heats and such just to change them right back for no reason?

[PaintedWolf]

Again, remove Hardpoints for Omnis (so they are more customizable like Lore) and make it a Star ( 5 Mechs) vs a Company (12 Mechs). Clans players will then have to be more competent in comparison to IS counter-parts, which also then gives new players an incentive to play IS first which will then be far more forgiving for individual failure.

[Sadistic Savior]

Has anyone explained why simple numbers will not fix this "problem"?

8x12...balanced. Why will that not work?

[FunkyFritter]

Sadistic Savior, on 19 April 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Has anyone explained why simple numbers will not fix this "problem"?

8x12...balanced. Why will that not work?

Name one online multiplayer game with mismatched team numbers and a respectable competitive scene. Lopsided player numbers is a nightmare to balance.

[MentalPatient]

My suggestion? Get used to dying. Adapt or die. I hear the clanners had that effect, why not bring it in game. What we need to do is limit their use. Every Tom **** and Harry shouldn't be able to use clan tech, it should be extremely rare, but when you do encounter it, it SHOULD make you run and hide.

Don't make it pay ware, make it so you must jump through multiple hoops to acquire it. Like endgame type content.

Edited by MentalPatient, 19 April 2013 - 02:21 PM.

[PaintedWolf]

Sadistic Savior, on 19 April 2013 - 02:16 PM, said:

Has anyone explained why simple numbers will not fix this "problem"?

8x12...balanced. Why will that not work?

The potential problem is that players will flock to Clan and then IS numbers will be deficient in comparison. Match-making ques will then become horrendously long for Clan players. This will NOT be balanced out by players then going IS because their ques are shorter, and even if they did it would be the wrong way to solve the problem since it basically forces players to run IS for no reason other then a lack of a creative solution on the part of the devs.

Making the numbers more extreme, 5 vs 12, changes this a lot though because it makes it truly far more difficult for each individual to play Clan whereas an individual IS player can more coast along to victory. The Clanners can still win with increased customization and better tech, but if even 1 Clan player messes up that can easily spell doom.

[KafkaSyrup]

Having more focused objective based win-conditions is probably the only way you could make Clan vs IS matches feel like unbalanced stompfests.

Honestly, I would like them to adapt a BV like system, and allow (once they unkink out "Dropship" mode) respawn for IS from a pre-selected pool. Call me crazy, but the idea of playing a stock Banshee or Cicada vs Clan Mechs seems fun... as long as I know I am majorly crippling my team in doing so. (Hmm, maybe a BV bonus for playing stock might help, an alternative to min/max.).

Having ergonomic or arbitrary restrictions on clan tech will be pretty unsatisfying all around, and is pretty uncreative. Having game modes where clan mechs might have to use salvaged IS weapons in a campaign, or where there could be a Trebuchet with a single ER Medium Laser jury rigged on would be amazing. I don't think I'd mind playing the occassionally off-balanced match, also, if there was some added reward if a victory was pulled off. I get the feeling a lot of players wouldn't mind, too. My point is that absolutely balance can be the enemy if it does homogenize the personality and storytelling out of the game environment.

[Kurayami]

Clan tech supposed to be superior in every aspect so in reality there is only one way of balancing - ridiculous maintenance fee. But than again this will only result in good player becoming even better and bad players going "buhu why i cant use shines right nao - i dont want to farm".

Nerfed clan tech wouldn't be a clan tech anymore.

[FupDup]

People seem to continuously suggest asymmetrical team sizes without thinking through about what implications it may have. I'll quote myself from earlier in this thread and another thread:

FupDup has repeatedly said:

Clan vs. IS only asymmetrical drops aren't the panacea that they sound like on paper. Reasons:
1. You split up friends. What if Billy is an IS roleplayer and Joe is a Clanner enthusiast, and the two get on Teamspeak every day and play MWO together until the sun goes down? Are people just supposed to never play their favorite faction again if they want to play as a team with their friends?

2. Good luck finding a magic ratio that works. 5v8 in TT is different than 5v8 in MWO, because here we have min/maxing and convergence. In TT, a Clanner's stronger weapons could end up spreading their damage all over the place on a mech and therefore it wouldn't make as much of an impact...and you couldn't min-max to your heart's content without packing some serious moolah. Here, they are going to hit your center torso more often than not and you can refit your mechs for free after you buy the equipment once. Also, we don't have BV or tonnage matching in any form, and I'm pretty sure the devs said they don't plan on any sort of BV. Point is, a Clan mech in TT does not have the same worth as a Clan mech in MWO and never will. Maybe it'll be less, maybe it'll be more. We can't make that judgement based on random-variable board games. We have to judge it by the FPS mechanics of MWO.

No matter what number is chosen, it is more likely than not going to favor one side over the other instead of having a 50/50 chance of winning for each.

Edited by FupDup, 19 April 2013 - 02:40 PM.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

Make it MC purchase only.... Like they aren't going to do this anyway.

[Pinselborste]

Balance it with IS tech or the game will die. unequal teams wont help and will turn the game in capwarrior.