119 replies to this topic

[AnubiteGroove]

Mokou, on 20 April 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

You play
Ridiculous? Ridiculous what some "Legendary Founder" (pfft~) crying on forum about he can't just overcome his weakness.

Add nothing to the conversation again, please.

Bishop Steiner, on 20 April 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

OH NOZE!!!!!!!!!!
PPCs are suddenly effective and popular?!?!??!?!?
GOOD Since they are supposed to be neck and neck with Gauss as the kings of the battlefield, the most effective effective weapons yet developed. Guess what? They require some skill to use effectively, as you can't just spam with them, cuz even with coolshots you will be shutdown in seconds. Gauss might weigh twice as much, but you also never have too look at your heat gauge, or worry about NOT taking a shot in battle as you will shutdown if you do.
Funnily enough, I don't boat PPCs, yet am in the top ten on the HGN-733P leaderboard atm. And I seldom die from PPC shot. Lots of other things, but I am usually smart enough to use cover to avoid making myself a target.

Gauss is 15 tons, two PPC with 25% more damage is 14 tons. Gauss takes ammo, PPC does not, thus more tons. Gauss can explode, PPC can not. Try fitting 3 Gauss in something with enough ammo and speed to be affective. Wouldn't happen even if a 'mech allowed it. 5 PPCs do more damage than even 3 gauss.

Shutting down is practically a non-issue at long-range. Even short-range with an ERPPCboat (excluding caustic, tourmaline) I frequently carry my team while shutting down mid-brawl 6 times. Sure, I only fired one shot at a time, but I instantly disappear from enemy radar, and as a shutdown mech in a brawl, almost no one focuses on you. They focus on your allies who are eating them.

And again, unless the pilot is off on his own, he has buddies, and often many tons of armor, that save him from your attack.

I know it's OP because I have used it, extremely successfully. I feel bad using it, honestly.

Edited by AnubiteGroove, 20 April 2013 - 03:33 AM.

[SuperJoe]

Might as well play mechwarrior 4 again since mwo devolved into the same jump ppc snipe fest,. Least mw4 has more maps and modes i guess.

[Rat of the Legion Vega]

12 v 12 will show even more why PPCs now outclass all ballistics, because they keep firing while the ballistics eventually all run dry.

[Syllogy]

Your prayers have been answered:

[REDACTED], on 20 April 2013 - 03:38 AM, said:

Due to the community outrage of PPC's, LRM's, Gauss Rifles, and Autocannons, all weapons will be removed in Tuesday's patch for balancing.

Flamers and Machineguns will remain available for use during this period.

We expect weapons to be reintroduced sometime this Winter.

Edited by Syllogy, 20 April 2013 - 05:57 AM.

[FrostBear]

Nainkonami, on 20 April 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

This is how matches end for every assault that is no PPC build.



PGI, i despreatly begging you to take some action on this PPC.

Mechwarrior WAS a grat Taktik game, now its a stupid 3d action shooter. Five of my mates, who played since closed beta stopped already.

You are ruining the game, noone plays Rokets any more, only Gaus and some Large Laser Boats survived the PPC buffs. Increadsed projectile speed, decreased heat....whats next? less in tonnage maybe ?

I really hope you implement some heat demage to a mech in overheat. And you increase the PPC heat again. There is a good reason WHY it is so high in battletech universe!

Sadly have to agree with you, thats why i made a post of balancing the game, and to prevent extreme boating in it, to get back the viable use of all mechvariants not only some, maybe some of you like to read it, and vote on it, pls also explain why you votet like you did. And also think of it as tweakable, and all good ideas can be fit into the idea to.

FrostBear

http://mwomercs.com/...21#entry2099521

[Syllogy]

PPC's weren't a problem before missiles were nerfed....

Maybe the problem isn't with PPC's, it's the lack of other weapons to keep those builds in check? ... mmm yeah.

[Crazy Billy Joe Bob]

PPC are worthless under 90 meters, and ERPPC generate so much heat, you can fire only a few volleys before shutting down.

You can do much more damage with Ballistics DPS wise. I have an AWS-8Q with 4 EFPPC;s and rarely do more the 200 damage in a match.. I never feel like I am crushing the opponents. I feel my AC ballistics can do more damage in a shorter period of time..

now most PPC will be ALPHAing , but then they overheat and are sitting ducks.

[Vassago Rain]

Crazy Billy Joe Bob, on 20 April 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

PPC are worthless under 90 meters, and ERPPC generate so much heat, you can fire only a few volleys before shutting down.

You can do much more damage with Ballistics DPS wise. I have an AWS-8Q with 4 EFPPC;s and rarely do more the 200 damage in a match.. I never feel like I am crushing the opponents. I feel my AC ballistics can do more damage in a shorter period of time..

now most PPC will be ALPHAing , but then they overheat and are sitting ducks.

They're plenty dangerous right up to maybe 45 meters. You should know this.

[Crazy Billy Joe Bob]

Vassago Rain, on 20 April 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

They're plenty dangerous right up to maybe 45 meters. You should know this.

yes, but PPC or ERPPC are not a good choice for bruisers, as shutting down with someone blasting you at point blank with AC and SRM is a good way to get into spectator mode fast.

Thats why I have SLasers too for that, and only use PPC when I can afford the heat.

[Vassago Rain]

Crazy Billy Joe Bob, on 20 April 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

yes, but PPC or ERPPC are not a good choice for bruisers, as shutting down with someone blasting you at point blank with AC and SRM is a good way to get into spectator mode fast.

Thats why I have SLasers too for that, and only use PPC when I can afford the heat.

>small lasers.

[Fate 6]

DarkDevilDancer, on 20 April 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

They became popular because you can finally hit things with them at range thanks to state rewind.

PPCs are a staple of the battletech universe and it's right they feature prominently, if your getting hit alot then your not using cover properly and exposing yourself as a big fat target.

Sniping only works on targets you can see, use cover get in close and those PPCs become a burden instead.

PPC just got state rewind this patch. They were popular before that because of all the other buffs. Do you even play this game?

Sniping only works on mechs you can see? You can't find the enemy without seeing them, and if you can see them they can see you, and shoot off half your mech instantly. Again, do you even play this game?

[Mister Blastman]

Make no mistake to all defending the way the game plays at the moment:

It /is/ broken. I can't put my finger on how to fix it, but it is indeed broken. For all intents and purposes, we have Mechwarrior 4 at the moment without the risk of LRMs.

Mechwarrior 4 kind of... faded away. I see that happening to MWO FAST if the developers don't do something to address the broken high-alpha balance issues.

I can play the high-alpha game all day... but there are lots of people in the community that can't or don't know how to. The problem is it is so overpowering versus other tactics/methods and that alone jumps up and shouts "balance issue."

A lot of the problem has to do with convergence issues. Convergence needs to be completely re-thought (without randomizing it).

Edited by Mister Blastman, 20 April 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Mister Blastman, on 20 April 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

I can play the high-alpha game all day... but there are lots of people in the community that can't or don't know how to. The problem is it is so overpowering versus other tactics/methods and that alone jumps up and shouts "balance issue."

You forgot "Don't really want too".

[Kumakichi]

Nainkonami, on 20 April 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

.....increase the PPC heat.

Shades of Mechwarrior 4. Heat management seems almost missing from the game now and energy boating is rampant. Watching assaults alpha'ing with multiple ppc's and large lasers over and over its easy to see that heat is really out of balance.

[Mister Blastman]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 April 2013 - 06:54 AM, said:

You forgot "Don't really want too".

You're right. I don't. I played Mechwarrior 4 and did damn well at it. The problem was it just got boring. Really boring. That's what will drive people away from MWO more than anything.

Noobs will be scared off at the intensity and the craziness--but those that survive and learn to fend for themselves will eventually find it tedious and boring to play.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Mister Blastman, on 20 April 2013 - 06:55 AM, said:

You're right. I don't. I played Mechwarrior 4 and did damn well at it. The problem was it just got boring. Really boring. That's what will drive people away from MWO more than anything.

Noobs will be scared off at the intensity and the craziness--but those that survive and learn to fend for themselves will eventually find it tedious and boring to play.

I just want variety. Lots and lots of variety.

[MustrumRidcully]

Nainkonami, on 20 April 2013 - 02:47 AM, said:

You are right, Panda. But this is not the only reason.

You cannot hit Jumpsniper with LRM, because you don't hit them. SRM maybe, if u manage it to come close enough.....witch is a rare situation.

If the buff for LRMs includes a speed buff, your assumption that LRMs can't hit a jump sniper may be wrong. Missiles can actually fly over cover, and if you can hold the lock just long enough, that's all it needs.

And in fact, even if they remain slow, more damaging missiles make a difference. Because you can still fire over cover with LRMs and you can share targets. Flankers that catch the poptarters behind their cover can guide the team'S LRM firepower on a poptarter. It sure is not a riskless affair, but decent LRM support can make the risk worth it.

[Mister Blastman]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 April 2013 - 06:57 AM, said:

I just want variety. Lots and lots of variety.

Exactly.

Mechwarrior 4 suffered from an acute lack of variety. At least, when I stopped playing it did. It was a chore to play because your only options were severely limited.

I'd hate for this game to stay in the state it is because the options are so grossly limited. It isn't fun to have to play a certain way all the time--at least, in a game like Mechwarrior which is all about customization. Deciding, "Oh, should I take 2, 3 or 4 PPCs" isn't customizing.

Mechwarrior Living Legends actually does a pretty good job with variety--however, even then I can't say if their balance has nailed it or not due to being unable to customize mechs. Still, lots of things work in it. It isn't perfect, though--but it is better balanced than what we have in MWO right now.

[Bishop Steiner]

Triggerhippy, on 20 April 2013 - 03:26 AM, said:

PPC's and Gauss are fine right now finally - the trouble is the other weapons - missiles in particular need a few tweaks imo such as flight speed for missiles is currently too low, Throw in a little extra fire rate to MG's and a reduced spread to the LB-10X and we aren't far off good to go.

Jumpjets - pfft it's a part of the game - always has been throughout the MW series - hell we are still missing DFA's! you wanna deal with them - try being a moving target instead of standing there like a lemon, swing your torso - as Jesus would say - "turn the other cheek" (it's still got armour on it)

THIS

People cry because missile got nerfed.


TEMPORARILY. GET A GRIP PEOPLE IT'S NOT MECHAGGEDON!

As soon as PGI is happy with the splash, they will be buffed again, and that was stated from the start. AC's, Gauss, PPCs are all just about perfect. Not 100% on Large Pulse, and yes, the LB-X needs some work, but stop crying nerf because somethign is TEMPORARILY out of whack. Because just as soon as missiles get fixed, PPCs would just need to be re-buffed.

[MustrumRidcully]

AnubiteGroove, on 20 April 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

Add nothing to the conversation again, please.




Gauss is 15 tons, two PPC with 25% more damage is 14 tons. Gauss takes ammo, PPC does not, thus more tons. Gauss can explode, PPC can not. Try fitting 3 Gauss in something with enough ammo and speed to be affective. Wouldn't happen even if a 'mech allowed it. 5 PPCs do more damage than even 3 gauss.

Gauss produces basically no heat. Those poptarters? They can fire 3-4 shots and are out. that doesn't matter if those shots core a mech, but you know what would be worse, right? if they could fire 12 shots and not even feel the heat.

There is no mech currently that can fit 3 Gauss Rifles. There are mechs that would have the necessary ballistic slots, it might just be a matter of time before we get them. Maybe PGI will deliberately never introduce them because they realize how broken their game is. I wouldn't really count on that, but...Who knows.

The problem is this game has turned all about alpha strikes. Convergence helps that.
THe low heat dissipation paired with a high heat capacity also ensures the high alpha strikes are possible, and the "DPS" approach is pointless. If you can deal the damage to kill a heavy mech in 8 seconds, why bother with sustainable fiirepower?