119 replies to this topic

[MustrumRidcully]

Chief 117, on 21 April 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

Remember the days (not too long ago) when everybody was crying that PPCs sucked ?

Yes. I think I liked those times less, but of course, that was a time where LRMs were probably OP and SRMs were at least highly competitive.

[Yokaiko]

MustrumRidcully, on 21 April 2013 - 04:03 AM, said:

Yes. I think I liked those times less, but of course, that was a time where LRMs were probably OP and SRMs were at least highly competitive.

The issue now being that the traditional predators of big slow hot snipers were fast big hitting SRM mediums....

....which have no teeth after taking a 40% damage hit, without the big efficient damage there are a grand total of three mediums that can close on a sniper ball, and without being able to lay out 45 point SRM strikes they can't drop a phact fast enough...much less a Highlander that is sporting nearly the armor of an atlas. Dragons are fast enough, but don't have enough hit fresh vs fresh. That leaves the -4P, which is to all eggs in one basket to really be a threat.

Where before you had -4SPs, Treb-3Cs and Centbombs to keep pressure on a big slow force, you have equal force and you are screwed if you can't close.

I don't want to think about how many games I've lost due to "support" Atlases in groups playing peek-a-boo, you are too slow, knock it off.

[DeadlyNerd]

DarkDevilDancer, on 20 April 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

They became popular because you can finally hit things with them at range thanks to state rewind.

PPCs are a staple of the battletech universe and it's right they feature prominently, if your getting hit alot then your not using cover properly and exposing yourself as a big fat target.

Sniping only works on targets you can see, use cover get in close and those PPCs become a burden instead.

what game have you been playing for the past 5 days?

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 21 April 2013 - 04:47 AM.

[KKRonkka]

Welcome to the "Today I Whine About This And Tomorrow About That" online. Seriously.

[maXe72]

There will always be a popular while effective weapon-system regardless what they nerf or buff.

Its just the way you handle this.
Go with the mainstream or try to adapt your gamestyle/strategys to the known threats.
The last one isnt the easier way to go.

[Squigles]

Chief 117, on 21 April 2013 - 03:59 AM, said:

Remember the days (not too long ago) when everybody was crying that PPCs sucked ?

Yes, I remember those days, they were glorious days. People crying and moaning over how ineffective PPC's were. All the while pouring hundreds of points of damage from my STOCK K2 into the brawls that were still happening. Oh, those were happier times, when there would be 'mechs brawling and circling while snipers found elevated perches and sent in their gauss shells and PPC blasts, while LRM mechs stood in the backfield and lobbed ordinance.

Dev's...could you roll the game back to about 2 weeks prior to the patch that added DHS, Endo, and FF? Then throw the new maps, netcode, and engine speed fixes into the game along with the new vision modes and I'd be a happy camper.

I'm likely the vast minority though, so don't mind me.

[Ens]

it never was as bad, as it is now

[Greyfyl]

DarkDevilDancer, on 20 April 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

They became popular because you can finally hit things with them at range thanks to state rewind.

PPCs are a staple of the battletech universe and it's right they feature prominently, if your getting hit alot then your not using cover properly and exposing yourself as a big fat target.

Sniping only works on targets you can see, use cover get in close and those PPCs become a burden instead.

When 90% of the builds are running ppc as their main weapon - the problem is not the op's ability to use cover. Let's just face the fact that PGI has no idea how to balance anything and this game will forever be one fotm after another.

Yokaiko, on 21 April 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

The issue now being that the traditional predators of big slow hot snipers were fast big hitting SRM mediums....

....which have no teeth after taking a 40% damage hit, without the big efficient damage there are a grand total of three mediums that can close on a sniper ball, and without being able to lay out 45 point SRM strikes they can't drop a phact fast enough...much less a Highlander that is sporting nearly the armor of an atlas. Dragons are fast enough, but don't have enough hit fresh vs fresh. That leaves the -4P, which is to all eggs in one basket to really be a threat.

Where before you had -4SPs, Treb-3Cs and Centbombs to keep pressure on a big slow force, you have equal force and you are screwed if you can't close.

I don't want to think about how many games I've lost due to "support" Atlases in groups playing peek-a-boo, you are too slow, knock it off.

Peek-a-boo warrior online in full swing. I think this is the first time I have ever agreed with you on anything.

I have to go take a shower now, I feel dirty.

[Mystere]

buttmonkey, on 21 April 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

i think you will find that things are going according to plan for pgi. us old school are players are being pushed away in favor of hormonal teenagers who cant concentrate on anything for more than 2 minutes without feeling the need to mas-tur-bate

thats why now all you have is poptarts and boats because why wait and use tactics properly when you can sit all the way across the map and just jumpup and down like a kid with add and ants in his pants.

I think people here in the forums should coordinate a bit to get their stories straight because right now all over the forums:

• The "pubescent CoD types" are complaining that the "old toads" are ruining the game by bring to MWO their big bad MW2/3/4 poptarting and boating ways.
  
• The "old toads" are complaining that the "pubescent CoD types" are ruining the game by poptarting and boating, which are no-skill and require no tactics.

Get your stories straight folks, please.

maXe72, on 21 April 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

Go with the mainstream or try to adapt your gamestyle/strategys to the known threats.
The last one isnt the easier way to go.

The latter may be harder to do, but at least it's different from the "monkey see, monkey do" types. Also, humanity did not progress because of copycats. The human race progressed because someone decided to do something different (slightly or otherwise) from the herd of sheep.

Edited by Mystere, 21 April 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Dalorante Corbanis]

+1 ok mystere

[MischiefSC]

Why not put PPC heat back where it was and give cockpit shake on JJ use? ZOMG! It's like.... like it was balanced.

I know, I know. It won't make boating PPCs super-effective anymore. Just like dialing missiles back made them far less effective. They still work - I kill people with SRMs and LRMs pretty regularly now. They're just not the easy go-to win tactic they used to be.

It'll probably end up the same with PPCs. Now that they've got their accuracy back they don't need the lowered heat. 10 damage, 10 heat. Great range, instant damage instead of DOT like other energy weapons, long range but reduced damage up close (unless you go ERPPC, which goes 15 heat).

We'll see LL Awesomes again. It'll be hilarious.

Tabletop balance damage/heat/range pretty well. Missiles, ballistics, lasers, all the stuff that fits best is stuff that sticks to those values. Missiles sucked because they made them crazy slow. You get LRMs with current damage but double the speed and suddenly you've got a serious weapon. Indirect fire is nasty stuff. SRMs are good now. Tiny damage buff, ignore splash with them. Call it 'shaped warheads' or something. Do full damage on target over 1 or 2 locations out to about 200m and BOOM. You've got SRM goodness back.

[Javok]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 20 April 2013 - 08:36 AM, said:

That was a dumb post (not yours, the guy you quoted). The only hard counter to ECM is ECM. End of story.

You can counter PPC's. It's not even just PPC's that are the problem.

It's the lack of dynamic maps. Crappy game modes. Jump Jets not causing any sort of shake. The missile nerf. And a hard point customization system that allows you to put the biggest weapons anywhere you want.

Thats the solution right there, make the cockpit/screen shake while flying, problem solved.

[Malora Sidewinder]

Mokou, on 20 April 2013 - 02:22 AM, said:

And kill AWS mech? Oh yes, i u mount lasers on AWS. AWS with lasers, what kind of stupid.

the awesome would be *fine* without PPCs. it's at it's strongest as a laser boat anyway.

[XFactor777]

KKRonkka, on 21 April 2013 - 05:38 AM, said:

Welcome to the "Today I Whine About This And Tomorrow About That" online. Seriously.

welcome to the internet you must be new here

[Alex Reed]

I used to never load PPCs on my mechs until the night I faced two assault lances made up almost entirely of ECM DDCs.

Now, I keep multiple ER PPCs on my mech to help shut down the ECM mechs and make them targets for my unit. Staggered chain fire of ER PPCs to drop the ECM shield, the LRM support mech hits the DDC, repeat.

On a side note:

Pop-tarting PPC sniping mechs are effective until they are flanked and exposed. If your lance is constantly getting schooled by poptarting PPC snipers, take note of where they are, what you are doing, and do not repeat it.

I do not poptart because I am old and do not have the nerves or coordination for it. With that being said, I do respect those who can do it and do it well (I will leave out the issue of PGI-acknowledged aim-botting).

This whole game is adapt and overcome ... it goes back to the old adage "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Edited by Alex Reed, 22 April 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[Karazyr]

pro tip: stop piloting exclusively assault mechs then complaining when your big fat arse gets taken out.
use something faster use mediums and lights orrrrrrr increase your engine size so you can move faster, orrr use team work to prioritize those snipers, com on people its not that hard, stop moaning that you cant win because your unable to change.

[RickySpanish]

The solution is easy:

LRM tracking accuracy, velocity & target retention time = Enemy JJ class x Number of Jets x Mech Tonnage x Heat of Mech

Suddenly all those alpha warrior highlanders will be thinking twice before popping up and getting slammed by LRMs. Did I also mention that LRMs without a target will home in on nearby mechs that are using or have recently used JJs? Well they should.

[Ransack]

They ain't nerfin PPC's cause that's how you counter ECM.

The PPC spamage is ridiculous, but it is what it is. This is the game that PGI wants to make, which is why so many that I know have left.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Nainkonami, on 20 April 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

Ok, maybe someone of you coul explain me who an Atlas fits in your Mechwarrior Online Universe. They are big, they are slow, and you cannot shot when you are in cover! You cannot sneak behind 5 jumpsniper Highlanders, this is ridiculous. I want you to play an close combat Atlas, in a PUG game. make a video, and proof me, that you are able to kill these guy.

There is plenty of cover in most of the maps that allow an Atlas to survive a lenghty amount of time in a match. The best one is to stay within sight of at least 2 other teammates and preferribly be on a team that uses voicecomms (that will extend your life dramatically). If you get in a bind head over to one of those other mechs in sight and try to get the enemy to change targets. Or at least help you to get their attention and target the mech trying to destroy you.

[Tezcatli]

The amount of threads that get made on this subject. And my own personal experience. This isn't an unwarranted complaint. And no amount of "L2P" speak is going to change the fact PPCs are dominant. It would be one thing if everyone mounted A ppc. But we're talking about stacking PPCs in place of most other weapons.

They should up the heat on it. Bringing it closer to table top. And lower the heat on medium and small lasers. All of these were changed to make PPCs more viable. But the recent changes have made PPCs dominant.