92 replies to this topic

[K o i l]

So, this weekend has really shown to me the power of LRM's.

I've heard so much moaning about the dmg being nerfed and that they're no longer viable.

I disagree.

I have seen LRM's do some pretty beastly dmg this weekend. Couple this with the fact that most hits strike CT is a nice little bonus in taking down mechs that have already been roughed up. I've seen stalker / boats wracking up the kills through LRM's in the last few days.

If you want to argue that ECM makes using LRM's too difficult to bother with, then I think you have an argument, and their should be more in place to disable / counter it, but buffing the damage of LRM's to compensate for the hits you miss out on isn't the answer.

LRM's could maybe use a touch more dmg per missile, or increase their speed.possibly, but overall, they hurt quite a bit. My poor shredded HL could attest to this...if I could find all the pieces.


tl;dr :: ECM is the problem, not LRM's.

[jeffsw6]

I disagree with your post. No further explanation needed.

[Chuckdatass]

jeffsw6, on 21 April 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

I disagree with your post. No further explanation needed.

I disagree with your post. No further explanation needed.

Edited by Chuckdatass, 21 April 2013 - 03:09 PM.

[Cordel Ordo]

Have to say love the thread title. I agree with your post in the hands of someone who knows how to use them LRMs are still rather deadly. I myself am actually am slightly worried when I see LRMs being deployed because most of the time they have a good pilot behind them who can pick his shots well.

[Davers]

LRMs are such a touchy subject.

How LRMs perform are based on the perception of the user. Someone who thinks LRMs are for 'softening the enemy' are happiest with lower damage values. Players who think of LRMs are a primary weapon system are only happy with high damage/tight clusters of damage. Players of 8 man groups find LRMs to be weak overall, while some pug players find them very powerful.

With so many different groups having such a diversity of opinions, I think I would rather leave it entirely in PGI's hands to balance them, as they are the only ones with the 'big picture' view of them.

[Scratx]

LRMs deadly?

Sorry.

They don't pack much of a punch for their weight, ECM screws them up, fast lights are outright immune to them if the players know what they're doing... their propensity for hitting CT is only really true if they're facing you and moving slowly or not at all.

They need a serious buff, and I'm not actually convinced it's solely a damage per hit buff... more like ensuring that more missiles do hit. Especially on light mechs. I can dodge LRMs in my Jenner, zero damage most of the time. Come on. What the hell? (I'm pretty sure I can do the same in a Cicada too but I'm not 100% sure so I rather not claim that)

[TOGSolid]

No splash damage, 1 damage per missile, buff the flight speed, nerf their ability to make super sharp turns, and make ECM not ********.

That's all I ask.

Edited by TOGSolid, 21 April 2013 - 03:21 PM.

[Roadbeer]

Davers, on 21 April 2013 - 03:18 PM, said:

With so many different groups having such a diversity of opinions, I think I would rather leave it entirely in PGI's hands to balance them, as they are the only ones with the 'big picture' view of them.

Safest answer EVER (Since Bryan's answer about MWO's demographics, which encompassed everyone from my GF teenage son to my dad.)

[K o i l]

TOGSolid, on 21 April 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

No splash damage, 1 damage per missile, buff the flight speed, nerf their ability to make super sharp turns, and make ECM not ********.

That's all I ask.

I like the cut of yer jib.

[Und3rSc0re]

For one they should not be aiming just for center torso, they should at first but spread out within a certain distance and hit all over. Once they fix that they can increase damage, keep splash dmg to a minimum "or just remove it completely". Have bap buffed, ecm nerfed to make other light mechs viable, and so on.

Edit:Also machineguns need buff, plus missile hsr, after all of these fixes or whatever then they can look at nerfing ppcs with more heat if they are still meta.

Edited by Und3rSc0re, 21 April 2013 - 03:27 PM.

[Commodore Perspicuous]

I run a handful of mechs that rely on LRMs for a significant amount of their arsenal. I do feel they could have a very slight damage boost, no more than up to 1 damage, but I feel that they are still viable. Just for either the boater or the thinking player. None of my mechs carry enough LRM punch to ruin someone's day, but I am able in almost every match to get an angle where I can use them as a finisher or to disrupt a fight or poptarter. I think they are very viable and rely on them quite often.

[OpCentar]

K o i l, on 21 April 2013 - 03:05 PM, said:

.... I've seen stalker / boats wracking up the kills through LRM's in the last few days....

That's your problem right there - boating.

Unless boated, and seriously with 40+ missiles per salvo, they are not worth their tonnage.


Pretty much the same story with every weapon that's "boatable". Nerf it too much - nobody uses it as it's too weak, make it decent - it's boatable, buff it a bit and see the boats set sail.

In short, stop balancing single weapons until we get a mechanic that balances boats.

[Willie Sauerland]

Chuckdatass, on 21 April 2013 - 03:08 PM, said:

I disagree with your post. No further explanation needed.

I disagree with your post disagreeing with his post
disagreeing with the OP on general principle.
No further explanation needed.

[TOGSolid]

Willie Sauerland, on 21 April 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

I disagree with your post disagreeing with his post
disagreeing with the OP on general principle.
No further explanation needed.

I disagree with your post disagreeing with his post disagreeing with the post disagreeing with the OP.

Quote

That's your problem right there - boating.

Unless boated, and seriously with 40+ missiles per salvo, they are not worth their tonnage.

And those Stalker boats only ever pull it off maybe one out of ten or one out of twenty matches. They're completely dead weight most of the other time.

Edited by TOGSolid, 21 April 2013 - 03:29 PM.

[Barnaby Jones]

[Tenzek]

TOGSolid, on 21 April 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

I disagree with your post disagreeing with his post disagreeing with the post disagreeing with the OP.

I agree. Let me explain...

Missiles are bad.


[Edit: Wait... what?]

Edited by Tenzek, 21 April 2013 - 03:33 PM.

[Mr 144]

TOGSolid, on 21 April 2013 - 03:28 PM, said:

I disagree with your post disagreeing with his post disagreeing with the post disagreeing with the OP.

Mr 144

[TOGSolid]

I like where this thread is going.

[Bishop Steiner]

[Wintersdark]

Mr 144 wins the thread.

That said... eeeh, LRM's are weakish overall, but not really because of the damage.

See, this is the problem:

LRM's have been traditionally difficult to balance, damage aside, because unlike most weapon systems there are many hard counters. This creates a situation where how LRM's seem is highly dependant on the amount of cover available on the map, the presence of ECM, the speed of the players' mech, the number of LRM using mechs, etc.

On alpine, with no ECM, LRM's can seem extremely powerful when utilized against you. On River City, with solid ECM coverage, they're essentially useless.

If they do high damage, and are mostly hard-countered, they end up seeming ok-ish, but if they are not hard-countered, they're grossly OP. If they do low damage, they range from useless to meh. Excepting streaks, every other weapon system's effectiveness is much more in the users hands.

So, here's my take:

An assumptions: PGI isn't going to change ECM. Just drop it. It doesn't matter what we think, they're largely happy with how it works in relation to LRM's. As such, I'm not even going to bother with discussing changes to ECM.

Leave damage more or less as is. Double the missiles flight speed. This will make it substantially easier to actually hit your opponent. It's better from a game design sense to have a weapon that hits more reliably for less damage than less reliably for more damage, because it makes for better gameplay all around. This is because the one hitting more reliably for less, even if it does the same damage overall in the long run, provides both satisfaction to the user (nobody likes ineffective attacks) and for the target (they have time to react, instead of nothing-nothing-nothing-RANDOMLY DEAD)

Faster missiles reduce the reaction time available for the target, and reduce the time the LRM boat needs to maintain a lock to ensure his missiles hit, which indirectly reduces the effectiveness of ECM against LRM's somewhat. (Tag - get lock - fire - less time for opponent to break tag and lock)