154 replies to this topic

[Oppresor]

I can see this weapon being used to provide a better defensive (one weapon) weapon carried on primary Recon Mechs like my Spider 5K. The idea behind the Recon Mech is that its primary role is to send back Recon info to the Assaults in His or her Lance. To do this, every weapon bar one is discarded in order to carry sensors, TAG etc. For this reason that one weapon is critical to its longevity. Your concept weapon would be ideal for this role.

[FupDup]

This is why we can't have nice things:

[jeffsw6]

Oppresor, on 20 April 2013 - 03:14 PM, said:

primary Recon Mechs like my Spider 5K. The idea behind the Recon Mech is that its primary role is to send back Recon info to the Assaults in His or her Lance.

If the SDR-5K is a recon mech, then why isn't it any better at recon than 10 other mechs with similar speed and superior armaments, some of which can have ECM?

It isn't a recon mech. It's a mech for people who need to get 8/8 on it to master Spiders, and for ... who else plays them? I mean, you'd have to be stupid to play SDR-5K past 8/8.

[Taemien]

The solution here... is to use Lasers. I'm sorry but when they made BattleTech, they didn't divide the weapons into different classes and say, "Hey we need a short range light weight ammo based weapon to complement Small and Medium Lasers."

Your short range weapon of choice should be a Medium Laser. Not a made up cannon. Not Machine guns. Or any of that mess. The only purpose the machine gun serves sadly is a placeholder on the stock mechs that come with them. Their primary use isn't apart of MWO and will never be.

I know many of you want a AC2 DPS weapon for only .5 tons, but that isn't going to happen. It was never even used for that function in either the TableTop nor the video games.

[armyof1]

Taemien, on 20 April 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

The solution here... is to use Lasers. I'm sorry but when they made BattleTech, they didn't divide the weapons into different classes and say, "Hey we need a short range light weight ammo based weapon to complement Small and Medium Lasers."

Your short range weapon of choice should be a Medium Laser. Not a made up cannon. Not Machine guns. Or any of that mess. The only purpose the machine gun serves sadly is a placeholder on the stock mechs that come with them. Their primary use isn't apart of MWO and will never be.

I know many of you want a AC2 DPS weapon for only .5 tons, but that isn't going to happen. It was never even used for that function in either the TableTop nor the video games.

And the PGI defense force is in the house, talking about how we want MGs to be as good as AC2's. Funny because you're the only one I've heard of talking about buffing MGs to 4 dps. And please tell us how you enjoyed mastering a Spider-K by using that medium laser on it that you recommended.

[darkfall13]

WolvesX, on 20 April 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

The clue is, its fires salvos of 3 bullets, like an AR-15 on burst.

AR-15 doesn't have burst it's semi-auto only, you're looking for the M16/M4 variants

[jeffsw6]

Taemien, on 20 April 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

The solution here... is to use Lasers.

If the following mechs did not exist, I would accept your argument as correct and stop posting about this subject:
SDR-5K
CDA-3C
JM6-DD

[stjobe]

jeffsw6, on 20 April 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

If the following mechs did not exist, I would accept your argument as correct and stop posting about this subject:
SDR-5K
CDA-3C
JM6-DD

And before launch you can add the FLE-17 to that list as well.

The FLE-15 has five energy hardpoints; the FLE-17 has five energy plus two ballistic.

Anyone want to guess how often those two ballistic slots will get used?

Edited by stjobe, 20 April 2013 - 04:17 PM.

[FupDup]

jeffsw6, on 20 April 2013 - 04:15 PM, said:

If the following mechs did not exist, I would accept your argument as correct and stop posting about this subject:
SDR-5K
CDA-3C
JM6-DD

Let's not forget the RVN-4X.

Taemien, on 20 April 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

The solution here... is to use Lasers. I'm sorry but when they made BattleTech, they didn't divide the weapons into different classes and say, "Hey we need a short range light weight ammo based weapon to complement Small and Medium Lasers."

Your short range weapon of choice should be a Medium Laser. Not a made up cannon. Not Machine guns. Or any of that mess. The only purpose the machine gun serves sadly is a placeholder on the stock mechs that come with them. Their primary use isn't apart of MWO and will never be.

I know many of you want a AC2 DPS weapon for only .5 tons, but that isn't going to happen. It was never even used for that function in either the TableTop nor the video games.

1. That second to last sentence of yours is a strawman.

2. That was the function it had in TableTop and the video games (at least in MW3 and a bit less effective in MW4, I dunno about MW1-2). It was a super-short ranged AC/2 that had a big bonus against infantry. MWO's version of the MG is not the rule, it is the exception. PGI defied TT and preceding MW games in their implementation of the MG for some inexplicable reason.

3. RVN 4-X, CDA-3C, SDR-5K, somewhat the JM6-DD, and soon the FLE-17 don't have that option. Their entire role comes from having different hardpoints than their other variants of the same chassis. If they can't use their unique hardpoint layout, they no longer serve a purpose. They are in fact inferior except for the RVN-4X because it has JJ's (something the other Ravens lack).

Edited by FupDup, 20 April 2013 - 04:49 PM.

[Zervziel]

The weapons in the OP are not canon weapons and I've been kinda untrusting of non-canon weapons ever since Microsoft dumped the ever horrid Plasma PPCs and Lava Cannon in the Battletech communities' laps.

I'd prefer a buff to make machine guns more viable weapons. Also fun fact: Machine cannons (machine guns with a large enough bore (usually starting around 20mm)) do exist. They're called autocannons by most.

[Taemien]

armyof1, on 20 April 2013 - 03:52 PM, said:

And the PGI defense force is in the house, talking about how we want MGs to be as good as AC2's. Funny because you're the only one I've heard of talking about buffing MGs to 4 dps. And please tell us how you enjoyed mastering a Spider-K by using that medium laser on it that you recommended.

I said this 15 years ago before PGI was even conceived so your counterpoint Failed.

I'd only master out Machine gun mechs like that by spending gxp, just like I did with the Raven 4X and 2X. Sometimes mechs fall into the same roles as their machine gun weapon counterparts. As placeholders, in this case, something to spend time on to elite/master out.

You all do know you can master every mech in the game by only using one mech right?

[armyof1]

Taemien, on 20 April 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I said this 15 years ago before PGI was even conceived so your counterpoint Failed.

I'd only master out Machine gun mechs like that by spending gxp, just like I did with the Raven 4X and 2X. Sometimes mechs fall into the same roles as their machine gun weapon counterparts. As placeholders, in this case, something to spend time on to elite/master out.

You all do know you can master every mech in the game by only using one mech right?

Ok so you were saying silly things 15 years ago, what's your point? No one else is asking for a buff of MGs to be as good as AC2, just you saying "people" are asking for it, when the only person "people" refers to is you.

So your solution to not making some variants horrible, which is why so many ask for the MGs being made useful, is "use GXP to level it and let it remain crap"? Why would you want some variants of a mech remain almost useless, because PGI said "working as intended"?

And no you're wrong. You have to get the basics filled up on 3 variants of the same chassis before you can go on with elite and only then can you level it alone if you've already elited 3 other variants in the same weightclass.

Edited by armyof1, 20 April 2013 - 05:53 PM.

[Yokaiko]

Taemien, on 20 April 2013 - 03:45 PM, said:

I know many of you want a AC2 DPS weapon for only .5 tons, but that isn't going to happen. It was never even used for that function in either the TableTop nor the video games.

Actually many were calling for less than half of AC2 DPS, 1.2DPS or ****. That 1.2 DPS is NOT pinpoint and requires 100% uptime.

The ACs are (theoretically) 4 DPS, however, 4-6 AC2 builds are a joke you chuckle and blow them up.

[Taemien]

armyof1, on 20 April 2013 - 05:51 PM, said:

Ok so you were saying silly things 15 years ago, what's your point? No one else is asking for a buff of MGs to be as good as AC2, just you saying "people" are asking for it, when the only person "people" refers to is you.

So your solution to not making some variants horrible, which is why so many ask for the MGs being made useful, is "use GXP to level it and let it remain crap"? Why would you want some variants of a mech remain almost useless, because PGI said "working as intended"?

And no you're wrong. You have to get the basics filled up on 3 variants of the same chassis before you can go on with elite and only then can you level it alone if you've already elited 3 other variants in the same weightclass.

Where did I say that you didn't need basics? I said I have a 3L mastered without ever having to pilot the 4X or 2X. That must mean I filled in their basics somehow. Unless you're saying I found a way to glitch the system. So unless I did that, then you know that I didn't mean you could simple skip over the basics, and what I said is you could do that without even piloting them.

One can do that with the Spider or Cicada too. You don't have to pilot them to master them. That fact remains correct.

[armyof1]

Taemien, on 20 April 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Where did I say that you didn't need basics? I said I have a 3L mastered without ever having to pilot the 4X or 2X. That must mean I filled in their basics somehow. Unless you're saying I found a way to glitch the system. So unless I did that, then you know that I didn't mean you could simple skip over the basics, and what I said is you could do that without even piloting them.

One can do that with the Spider or Cicada too. You don't have to pilot them to master them. That fact remains correct.

Yeah so I was right what I said before, you think we should just keep having rubbish variants and weapons because the devs don't want to make them useful. And your "solution" to that is to having to spend lots of GXP. Buy bad variant, spend lots of GXP to fill Basic skill tree, sell it. You really think that is a good way to solve the issue instead of making more weapons being useful, which would also make more mechs enjoyable to play?

[Taemien]

armyof1, on 20 April 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Yeah so I was right what I said before, you think we should just keep having rubbish variants and weapons because the devs don't want to make them useful. And your "solution" to that is to having to spend lots of GXP. Buy bad variant, spend lots of GXP to fill Basic skill tree, sell it. You really think that is a good way to solve the issue instead of making more weapons being useful, which would also make more mechs enjoyable to play?

I never gave a solution for PGI to do. I gave you a solution as a player.

If you want my opinion of PGI should do rather than you all as players. Then they could just put energy slots on some of those mechs. Or add in a means of machine gun arrays so multiple machine guns can fit in a single hardpoint. Get more damage at the cost of criticals and tonnage.

Giving them individual DPS increases isn't the way to go. Not for a 0 heat weapon and only .5 tons. I don't care how hard they are to aim, you don't need to aim at the range they are meant to be fired at.

[TOGSolid]

Taemien, on 20 April 2013 - 05:06 PM, said:

I said this 15 years ago before PGI was even conceived so your counterpoint Failed.

I'd only master out Machine gun mechs like that by spending gxp, just like I did with the Raven 4X and 2X. Sometimes mechs fall into the same roles as their machine gun weapon counterparts. As placeholders, in this case, something to spend time on to elite/master out.

You all do know you can master every mech in the game by only using one mech right?

So your answer to this game design problem is "hurr durr just skip it with GXP."

Yeah, that's not how proper game design works.

Quote

Giving them individual DPS increases isn't the way to go. Not for a 0 heat weapon and only .5 tons. I don't care how hard they are to aim, you don't need to aim at the range they are meant to be fired at.

Then what is the way to go? They are bad at crit seeking, even when they were bugged and critting at much higher rate then they were supposed to and you don't want to boost their DPS to something reasonable so what's left?

Edited by TOGSolid, 20 April 2013 - 09:24 PM.

[armyof1]

Taemien, on 20 April 2013 - 09:13 PM, said:

I never gave a solution for PGI to do. I gave you a solution as a player.

If you want my opinion of PGI should do rather than you all as players. Then they could just put energy slots on some of those mechs. Or add in a means of machine gun arrays so multiple machine guns can fit in a single hardpoint. Get more damage at the cost of criticals and tonnage.

Giving them individual DPS increases isn't the way to go. Not for a 0 heat weapon and only .5 tons. I don't care how hard they are to aim, you don't need to aim at the range they are meant to be fired at.

Well at least you and the devs sure see eye to eye on things. It's just plain stubbornness in your refusal to acknowledge the obvious lack of a valid ballistic weapon for all lighter mechs. It's such a simple thing to buff the damage until it's useful, but oh no, we should totally change all hardpoints and go all energy instead. It's not like other weapons have had changes to heat, damage etc to balance them in the game. But MGs?! But think about the 6MG Spider, oh the horror!

[TOGSolid]

armyof1, on 20 April 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

Well at least you and the devs sure see eye to eye on things. It's just plain stubbornness in your refusal to acknowledge the obvious lack of a valid ballistic weapon for all lighter mechs. It's such a simple thing to buff the damage until it's useful, but oh no, we should totally change all hardpoints and go all energy instead. It's not like other weapons have had changes to heat, damage etc to balance them in the game. But MGs?! But think about the 6MG Spider (that doesn't actually exist), oh the horror!

ftfy

[armyof1]

TOGSolid, on 20 April 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

ftfy

I know it's not true, that's why it's so funny! Because it's not me who made up the 6MG Spider, read it in an ask the devs thread.

Edited by armyof1, 20 April 2013 - 10:17 PM.