154 replies to this topic

[kf envy]

Ozric, on 20 April 2013 - 05:52 AM, said:

Yes. We need Light Gauss, stat!

light gauss show up after the clan come to say hello and the inner sphere have a good fun time





as for the MGs there they should suck untill the clans show up. but thats if were falloing the time line

[Demos]

Why invent new weapons? Later in the timeline we have LAC's, RACs, AP Gauss etc.
Before inventing new stuff, make simply a timejump.
And make MG's (beside Flamer and LBX) viable!

[Dremster]

With public test servers in the works hopefully they will be more willing to play with the machine gun numbers. That way it can be tested and if the Spider 5K starts reaping Atlai with machine guns of DOOOOOM! Then we simply tune them down and there wont be any QQ because it didn't happen on the live servers.

[Hatachi]

Well, these are the test server. It's beta and all. I wish they would take more risks now instead of waiting for launch.

[Dremster]

I can understand the devs wanting the machine gun to have a unique mechanic to set them apart. But I see no reason why they can't do 1.2-1.5 DPS and have a bonus vs internals. They have already set a precedent for it with the PPC and LBX autocannon. Both of which do damage equal to their TT equivalents while having extra functionality at no extra cost, ECM disruption and bonus damage vs internals respectively.

The difference is both of those weapons have an increased rate of fire, just like every other weapon in game. Effectively tripling their DPS. However the machine gun never got that damage increase.

Edit: And IF the machine gun retained its unique crit seeking ability after a damage buff, then there would be a compelling reason to bring a Raven 4X or a Spider 5K over the other variants available. Without too much worry about your level of contribution to the team.

Edited by Dremster, 21 April 2013 - 03:18 AM.

[Waking One]

No, just buff the MGs. I have no clue why the hell are they so obstinate about it. They're ****, and if they don't know it i don't know what are they smoking.

Reminds me of the old "We didn't implement double double heatsinks because a jenner could core an atlas from the back in a few seconds" ********.

[jakucha]

Light autocannons, though I don't know what year they were around.

[pesco]

WolvesX, on 20 April 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

MEDIUM LASER  LIGHT MACHINE-CANNON	  
5.00          2.00

Yup. Sounds like an MG alright.

First page of replies in this thread: Full of win.

[Dr Killinger]

Right now a ballistic slow acts as a premium slot- it's earmarked for a big gun. Energy slots are able to provide your small arms needs. Missiles as well, but we know how that they're sub-par lately.

Not defending the situation, just giving my outlook on it.

[warner2]

The IS will be overloaded with ballistic weapons as time progresses, RACs, Light Gauss, Heavy Gauss, Ultra ACs, Hyper ACs, on top of what we have now. NBT-HC had them all and balancing was a nightmare. There was not a niche or role for each of them so many were left on the shelf.

Rather than making up ballistic weapons, how about balancing the ones already there so they see more use?

[Yokaiko]

Almost all of those are 8 years down the timeline....remember one to one?

[Taemien]

TOGSolid, on 20 April 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

So your answer to this game design problem is "hurr durr just skip it with GXP."

Yeah, that's not how proper game design works.

I'm not a game designer, I'm a player. So yes I'm going to use a player solution to an issue. You totally ignored the fact that I did give an option for the developers though. Its obvious you have an agenda however and its bleeding into your posts very badly. You're faliing to understand any of my statements and are trying to put words into my mouth.

Quote

Then what is the way to go? They are bad at crit seeking, even when they were bugged and critting at much higher rate then they were supposed to and you don't want to boost their DPS to something reasonable so what's left?

No clue what your trying to ask. My suggestion would cause the 4 Ballistic slot spider to be capable of dealing more DPS than a Gauss Rifle. In fact filled in with machine gun arrays you'd effectively be hit with the same damage as 4 gauss rifles every 12.5 seconds (Doing virtually the same dps in those 12 seconds, past 12 seconds the machine guns do more). For only a weight of 4 tons for the weapons plus 1 or 2 tons of ammo, you have a zero heat group of weapons that weighs 5 to 6 tons and has more dps than a weapon that weighs three times as much.

If you try to increase the DPS of the machine gun it will still suck because it takes up an entire ballistic slot. Buffing it to the dps of a weapon that should taking an entire weapon slot makes it OP. Its only ever .5 tons and that is why it would be OP. If you make it generate heat, change the firing mechanics to that of a small pulse laser, then you have a small pulse laser that fits in a ballistic slot... -yawn-.

At least my solution gives it competitive DPS for the slot it occupies and still takes up more tons and criticals, keeping the things balanced. Apparently I -DO- know how to do game design, despite never claiming to before, unlike what you've claimed that I've said.

[WolvesX]

I think for a radical idea such as this one, the poll is a promissing result!

Thank you for all the feedback so far!

[JudgeDeathCZ]

You will get light variants of existing weapons(ACs,PPC,gauss and maybe some) and heavy also(including lasers).We just have to w8 to get them...

[Gremlich Johns]

As someone who know something about being a scout in a MW game, having a weapon that can run out of ammo does not ensure survival. If I am running about - sneaking, peeking and retreating, I would like to be able to rely on something that does not run out of destructive capability unless it is destroyed. Most light mechs are great scouts, others, like the Kit Fox, not so much. MGs (or any other ballistic weapon you equip) are ammo dependent and sooner than later, you'll run out and hopefully, if you planned well, you can still use the laser you brought along to save your backside.

I think you guys should just resign yourselves to not getting special spiffy ballistics that are not in canon, whether in the current timeline or later

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 21 April 2013 - 08:47 AM.

[Vermaxx]

We don't need new fk ing weapons. We need machine guns to work the way they're supposed to.

Two damage, short delivery time. Not two damage EVERY FIVE SECONDS.

I have now proven AC2 is far better at critting than machine guns. MWO machine guns are worthless. If they weren't, the problem would be IMMEDIATELY SOLVED.

[Taemien]

Vermaxx, on 21 April 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

We don't need new fk ing weapons. We need machine guns to work the way they're supposed to.

Two damage, short delivery time. Not two damage EVERY FIVE SECONDS.

I have now proven AC2 is far better at critting than machine guns. MWO machine guns are worthless. If they weren't, the problem would be IMMEDIATELY SOLVED.

AC2like DPS would make them OP. A Spider would deal 16 damage every second, thats equivelent to four Gauss Rifles. For only 2 tons and no heat. An AC2 is allowed this sort of DPS because it weighs 6 tons and generates 1 heat (2 per second) each shot.

You all keep forgetting this is a no heat, .5 ton weapon. The problem it has is it takes an entire ballistic slot, thats the only thing that limits them from being useful. If you read my suggestion you'd know that a Spider would be able to mount 12 of them in 4 arrays. That gives it a respectable DPS of 7.2 for 5 tons of investment. Which is great for a 90m range weapon on a fast chassis.

[Firelizard]

Firstly, giving the MG's 1 DPS would make them viable as a light mount weapon, I would think.

Secondly, to fill in the gap in the ballistic weapon set, why not introduce Mech Mortars as ballistic hardpoint weapons?

That would give us lighter tonnage options, AND would give ballistics an indirect fire option.

[stjobe]

Taemien, on 21 April 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

AC2like DPS would make them OP. A Spider would deal 16 damage every second, thats equivelent to four Gauss Rifles. For only 2 tons and no heat. An AC2 is allowed this sort of DPS because it weighs 6 tons and generates 1 heat (2 per second) each shot.

Let me see if I follow that.

An AC/2 is allowed a higher DPS than a Gauss Rifle because it's 1 ton lighter, and generates 2 heat instead of 1?

And the MG can't be allowed that despite being severely range-limited, having a continuous-fire mechanic, and random number generator spread? Just because it causes no heat?

Now that's some really spurious logic there.

No, I'll tell you why the AC/2 is allowed 4 DPS: Because it doesn't do 15 points of damage to a single point, like the Gauss. Just like the MG, it's HARD to put that high DPS to effective use, due to the weapon's high rate of fire and low per-projectile damage.

Now have a look through this thread. See if you can find more than a single person advocating 4 DPS for the MG.

Most of us - against better judgement, I'll add - are advocating a somewhat more stately 1-2 DPS.

There's plenty of video, mathematics, logic, and facts in this thread showing without a doubt that a single Small Laser outperforms four MGs in practice. FOUR!

And that single Small Laser has a DPS of... 1.

You do the math.

[Pinselborste]

Mgs at 1.3 dps and removed cone of fire should be fine, together with a change in ammo so its equal to the 150 dmg per ammo ton the others have.