49 replies to this topic

[SC1P1O]

I feel that pop-tarts should take more leg damage, if they don't save about 25% of their fuel to slow their decent.
This way they cant get as high, making them have to expose themselves more instead of hiding behind 20m tall buildings and popping over them.

I mean if your in your car and you jump 20m high, you would want something cushioning your fall.

[Yokaiko]

Do you do anything but whine about poptarts? I got back in mine just because of all of these silly threads.

[JSparrowist]

poptards are beyond lame. I wish their pilots would go back to CoD FFS.

[Yokaiko]

It's like people have never heard the term flank.

[SC1P1O]

a poptart is like a scouting balloon in WW1 it can jump high enough it can usually see people trying to flank, and why can it jump that high? because it doesn't take any leg damage.

[Thundercles]

I know its an atypical situation, but I got 1-shot alpha'd at about 900m going full tilt in my spider through a fairly small gap in cover the other day by a poptart.

Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.

[JSparrowist]

P O P T A R D

[SC1P1O]

Buddahcjcc, on 20 April 2013 - 07:09 AM, said:

Yeah its not like they move



scouting balloons had legs?

this was in reference to the flanking maneuver, it is hard to flank when you have a whole bunch of scouting poptarts who can jump to their apex and not reserve fuel to save leg damage.

[Coolant]

SC1P1O, on 20 April 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I feel that pop-tarts should take more leg damage, if they don't save about 25% of their fuel to slow their decent.
This way they cant get as high, making them have to expose themselves more instead of hiding behind 20m tall buildings and popping over them.

I mean if your in your car and you jump 20m high, you would want something cushioning your fall.

I can hit them when they are in the air, can't you?

[Pinselborste]

shot a highlanders legs red while he tried to kill me poptarting and the moment he landed the 3rd time his legs got ripped off

[DasProjektil]

I think jumping behind cover and shooting while you are in the air is fine.
I just feel like while are in the air, you should not be able to shoot as accurate as when you are standing still on the ground.
Especially while you are firing the jump jets - it must take a massive force to lift a multi ton monster in the air and thus there should be quite some rumbling going on.

Two other suggestions (additionally maybe?):
Limited fuel recharges for jump jets, dependent on how many jump jets you have installed?
Remember "Cloak and dagger" when Ardan Sortek was dropped into the atmosphere of Stein's Folly and he had to be careful not to burn all his fuel before landing?

Much longer recharge time for jump jets.
It gets ridiculous when a Highlander can just bunny-hop at almost the same rate as its weapons recharge.

Edited by DasProjektil, 21 April 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[Goose]

I'm sorry, but did someone say "jumpjets shake a unit violently"? 'Cause I distinctly heard "jumpjets shake a unit violently" …

[Corvus Antaka]

SC1P1O, on 20 April 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I feel that pop-tarts should take more leg damage, if they don't save about 25% of their fuel to slow their decent.
This way they cant get as high, making them have to expose themselves more instead of hiding behind 20m tall buildings and popping over them.

I mean if your in your car and you jump 20m high, you would want something cushioning your fall.

While I agree with your sentiment, the flaw in your thinking is that they will expose themselves more by jumping less high...

we need jets that push mechs up quite high on the initial burn, thus forcing mechs to completely expose themselves rather than barely peeking to fire.

[Nick Drezary]

Poptarders already have to run more leg armor, then usual mech's, because very often other players miss and accidently hit the legs. Relax and just wait, until tournament ends and everypony master their Highlanders, after this folks will return back to their favorite awesomes, stalkers, atlases, AC20 ravens etc...

[Inconspicuous]

JSparrowist, on 20 April 2013 - 06:52 AM, said:

poptards are beyond lame. I wish their pilots would go back to CoD FFS.

Pop-tarts were in previous MechWarrior games, it's not like it's something new from CoD FFS...

[SecondReversal]

The more idiocy I hear in relation to people complaining about the tactical uses of jumpjets, the more tempted I am to utilize nothing but jump sniper builds.

Jets should cause a huge loss of accuracy while in use? Because they shake a battlemech around? What exactly do you think stomping around the map in a multi-ton bipedal tank does? You certainly don't complain that firing your weapons while walking should be impossible - But it's exactly the same situation.

Battlemechs mount enormous gyrostabilizers to balance their chassis. Battlemech weapon arrays are mounted on computer-stabilized gimbals to ensure that they are directed to where the Mechwarrior aims. Stop trying to use inherently flawed in-universe or pseudo-physics reasoning as to why jumpjets should be relegated to complete uselessness.

The complaint is that people are invincible while jump sniping is categorically false. A jump sniper has to move out of cover to shoot you, therefore he, in turn, can be shot by you. The argument is that he has the element of surprise on his side? Uh, yeah. Of course he does! That is, in fact, the whole point. That's why you don't walk around firing your lasers into the air every second while you make a flank march, because surprising your enemy is a tactical advantage! Defeating the element of surprise requires quick target acquisition and reflexes - Those are important competitive skillsets to have! The person who is better at those things should have an advantage.

The game is biased towards long-range, point-damage weaponry? Shocking, I know. I oft wonder why the modern infantryman doesn't use an axe, and instead uses a rifle as all evidence points to the axe being the more lethal choice - But then, that's right, the ability to engage your opponent at range and dictate the pace of an engagement is inherently superior, and thus obviously in the absence of a specific strategy is the correct choice.

I pilot Jenner chassis, Cataphract chassis, and Trebuchet chassis. Nearly all of them utilize jumpjets. Nearly all of them make some sort of jumpshot every single game, be it sniping from cover, or jumping over your head in a brawl. Mobility is a weapon in my arsenal, and I will continue to make use of it to the fullest extent.

I am a Mechwarrior. I compete with other Mechwarriors in a contest to see who is better at the tactical and strategic applications of MWO. I utilize every advantage, and mitigate every weakness. This isn't Robot Hugz In The Middle: Online. It's a game where one person wins, and one person loses. If you match up against me in game, I wish you luck - But don't expect me to cater to your skewed sense of fair play.

[F lan Ker]

S!

Did not even need to poptart much last night in the Highlander. Players presented an easy target of themselves without asking. And if you stand still in one spot where a poptart can easily fire, do not complain if being hit.

Got one opponent laughing when I did poptart and blew his Mech with an AC20 Another I shot down with AC20 midair while firmly on terra firma myself. Really..from what I have now tested poptarting it is not easy if the other team has a few players having a clue. They will shoot and damage you the moment your Mech begins to rise from behind cover so have to be careful and re-position often.

Flanking the poptarts works, one team sent a Spider that sneaked behind us and reported positions. Smart and countered potarting, was a good match and showed tactical sense from the other team. Less QQ, more reading the game and Situational Awareness!

Edited by F lan Ker, 21 April 2013 - 01:58 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Some would maybe better to stay with the TT where you have a whole lap times to pivot the torso on the target, and to consider what weapon I use now and instinctive observation, reaction speed and flexibility, and particularly adapt to the team are not necessary. . Hey play MW Tactics

[Zaptruder]

SecondReversal, on 21 April 2013 - 01:54 AM, said:

The more idiocy I hear in relation to people complaining about the tactical uses of jumpjets, the more tempted I am to utilize nothing but jump sniper builds.

Jets should cause a huge loss of accuracy while in use? Because they shake a battlemech around? What exactly do you think stomping around the map in a multi-ton bipedal tank does? You certainly don't complain that firing your weapons while walking should be impossible - But it's exactly the same situation.

Battlemechs mount enormous gyrostabilizers to balance their chassis. Battlemech weapon arrays are mounted on computer-stabilized gimbals to ensure that they are directed to where the Mechwarrior aims. Stop trying to use inherently flawed in-universe or pseudo-physics reasoning as to why jumpjets should be relegated to complete uselessness.

The complaint is that people are invincible while jump sniping is categorically false. A jump sniper has to move out of cover to shoot you, therefore he, in turn, can be shot by you. The argument is that he has the element of surprise on his side? Uh, yeah. Of course he does! That is, in fact, the whole point. That's why you don't walk around firing your lasers into the air every second while you make a flank march, because surprising your enemy is a tactical advantage! Defeating the element of surprise requires quick target acquisition and reflexes - Those are important competitive skillsets to have! The person who is better at those things should have an advantage.

The game is biased towards long-range, point-damage weaponry? Shocking, I know. I oft wonder why the modern infantryman doesn't use an axe, and instead uses a rifle as all evidence points to the axe being the more lethal choice - But then, that's right, the ability to engage your opponent at range and dictate the pace of an engagement is inherently superior, and thus obviously in the absence of a specific strategy is the correct choice.

I pilot Jenner chassis, Cataphract chassis, and Trebuchet chassis. Nearly all of them utilize jumpjets. Nearly all of them make some sort of jumpshot every single game, be it sniping from cover, or jumping over your head in a brawl. Mobility is a weapon in my arsenal, and I will continue to make use of it to the fullest extent.

I am a Mechwarrior. I compete with other Mechwarriors in a contest to see who is better at the tactical and strategic applications of MWO. I utilize every advantage, and mitigate every weakness. This isn't Robot Hugz In The Middle: Online. It's a game where one person wins, and one person loses. If you match up against me in game, I wish you luck - But don't expect me to cater to your skewed sense of fair play.

Eloquently put. But I'm sure if you can adapt to this situation you can adapt to another.

As a player, it's you're perogative to play to win for sure, but that doesn't remove the onus on the developer to balance their game towards a wide range of builds, playstyles and tactics and ensuring a degree of viability among all of them rather than just a few of them.

I think pop-tarting should have its place... but ideally the designers would balance weapons taking into consideration the manner of their use; sniping/alpha weapons provide players with a cover bonus. As a result, DPS weapons should be buffed to recognize the increased risk in their usage.

[Belorion]

Try jumping all the way up in a spider and see if you take any leg damage on the way down.