92 replies to this topic

[Inkarnus]

dude they dont balance weight too if there is a 4 man scout lance your practically lost the game if the enemy
realised and sits on his base most 8 even turn that way max out assaults stay put on base
wait till impatienced enemy or time is up or you downed 2 mechs
srsly

[Nicholas Carlyle]

I decided to go against the grain and equipped my Highlander with 2 LRM 15's and an LRM 20.

I though doing 500 damage in a good game should be fairly easy with that much rain.

Boy was I wrong. Even in games where I'm ignored and raining down getting over 400 damage is tough as hell.

And lord knows if ECM gets involved.

it's really bad. But I'll keep doing it because I refuse to poptart.

[Werewolf486 ScorpS]

Satire:

Lowly little pugger(Man reading in girls voice): Oh PGI, LRMs are so OP, please nerf them or I will quit!

PGI(Sounds like a Super Hero): Ok Sir we will nerf the obviously overpowered missles in an effort to keep you the pugger satisfied and spending money!

Lowly little pugger: Oh thank you thank you, now I can play and last longer then 3 minutes!

PGI: No problem Sir! Would you like to buy a Trial mech at half off MC?

Fast forward a week after nerfing.....

Player1: Streaks are the only good missles now, I don't even look for cover when a useless Stalker rains LRMs!

Player2: Yeah, I'm not even worried when I see an A1 Splatcat! Hell I chase them down now!

Stalker and Splat Pilot(Sounds like Children): Hey PGI can you buff our missles so we can still play? If you don't we'll quit!

PGI: Oh ok, but we'll only buff them some. You're not going to get the damage you once had with them!

Splat and Stalker Pilot: Oh thank you thank you PGI! Now we can play and be good again!

PGI: No problem players! Would you like to buy some premium timed for 20% off, or a Garth Bobble, maybe a Sean Lang Hula?

As with all the nerfs and buffs PGI does, they never start them off weaker and build them up and they never slightly change anything. They always over nerf or buff something and then change it again and again till they center in on target. Problem with this method is that you get people who are use to the buff side of things and complain when the over nerf hits. Wish PGI would introduce weapons and systems nerfed and start with minor increases as apposed to changes in big chunks.

[MaddMaxx]

Pointless Polls are also a Joke. How can we get them nerfed?

[Jetfire]

While I agree LRM's are under tuned currently, I have been very successful with them lately on my highlander. They are certainly still a viable weapons system, especially in the current PPC/Gauss fest.

I will be happy though to see a return of splash damage once it is fixed.

Edit: must run artemis

Edited by Jetfire, 22 April 2013 - 06:32 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Jetfire, on 22 April 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

While I agree LRM's are under tuned currently, I have been very successful with them lately on my highlander. They are certainly still a viable weapons system, especially in the current PPC/Gauss fest.

I will be happy though to see a return of splash damage once it is fixed.

Edit: must run artemis

Uh, splash damage still exists. They couldn't figure out how to remove it without borking missiles even more.

And I disagree with viable. I think you can steal some kills and do some damage. But viable isn't the right word. You are purposely gimping yourself when using them.\

See this is the problem, PGI's communication is so bad that half the game still doesn't even know what is exactly going on with missiles.

[RickySpanish]

I'm playing in the current tournament using the Awesome line-up and approaching the top 15 rankings (though I doubt I'll reach it). To 'seed' my scores I used an AWS 8R with LRMs so that my top 10 games would each have reasonable damage done before I started running more specialized mechs depending on the skill of the opponents in the game. I scored around 800 damage in my best games with the LRMs spotting slow assaults at 400m and maintaining LOS for the artemis bonus.

Although LRMs could do with a damage buff perhaps against NARC tagged mechs or from maintaining TAG on the target, they are definitely not a joke, and probably shouldn't have their damage increased on a per missile basis.

[ArmageddonKnight]

LRM's boated still cause enough damage to worry about ..its not like ur sitting there going 'haha LRM's ..they tickle' ..wil lstill still destroy a mech.

When they do get their damage buff, PGI need to have fixed the issue of boating(whether it be by a AMS buff or some other way) otherwise all that will happen is people will flock back to LRM boats and we will be back at square one.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

RickySpanish, on 22 April 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

I'm playing in the current tournament using the Awesome line-up and approaching the top 15 rankings (though I doubt I'll reach it). To 'seed' my scores I used an AWS 8R with LRMs so that my top 10 games would each have reasonable damage done before I started running more specialized mechs depending on the skill of the opponents in the game. I scored around 800 damage in my best games with the LRMs spotting slow assaults at 400m and maintaining LOS for the artemis bonus.

Although LRMs could do with a damage buff perhaps against NARC tagged mechs or from maintaining TAG on the target, they are definitely not a joke, and probably shouldn't have their damage increased on a per missile basis.

Ok seriously. So you were standing at 400m in the open, shooting LRM's. And no one thought to ECM lock you or charge you?

See this is my problem with people.

You cannot judge a weapon by it's use against people who...you know what I don't want to get banned again, but you get my drift.

It's stupid to say "Hey guys, I stood in the open with my Awesome and rained down LRM's on people who completely ignored me and did good damage".

I can do that with any weapon and do MORE damage with better weapons.

God.

[Thuzel]

Sephlock, on 21 April 2013 - 06:39 PM, said:

Seeing how many people are voting "no" is so deeply depressing...

Missiles are just so, so bad....

lol

I'm pretty sure I've seen a commando do this once or twice

[Target Rich]

Ok...every so often...in 1 out of 30 games playing my LRM mech...with 4 lrm 15's...I have a decent game...sometimes...when I am playing some exceptionally bad newbs...I get 500-600 damage...

But that's exceptionally rare...most times putting the stuff right on the fricking dime...maintaining a missile lock that flicks on and off like a strobe light because of the absolutely and completely WORTHLESS sensor suite being modeled in this MW beta...I am doing between 100 to 150 damage....

It is simply stupid to play LRM's right now...the reasons are so very obvious that they beggar belief... A GOD level ECM that can only be broken for up to 4 seconds by a fricking PPC (absolutely the stupidest countermeasure proposed in the long history of MW games)..A exceptionally poorly modeled LRM, a verbal warning that LRM's have target you which enables almost all mechs to reach cover...a requirement....for a LRM mech to maintain DIRECT sight target lock for the entire 8 second duration of the missile fire....in order to obtain ANY significant damage...totally absurd LRM damage values....obscene mimimum range...that removes any short range defence even with dumb firing...

and on and on and on...

I play LRM boats....because I have a normal laptop during working hours...and the frame rate for the standard INTEL video card is so low that LRM is my only option... MWO is the ONLY MMP that I play...and I play a bunch...that has this problem...because they moded the CryENgine and have not properly optimized that code.

So I play the LRM boats... so I know what works and does not work in this game relative to LRM's... The operative word is NOT...LRM's are basically worthless..

I have a desktop at home with a proper graphic card....I have other mechs with direct fire weapons...that actually DO damage and I am able to often score between 500 and 700 games with ERPPC's AC20's etc.... 60 to 40 ALPHA damage...

But My LRM mech....with 4 LRM 15's sports a 60 ALPHA damage....FRICKING JOKE THAT...because almost no significant damage happens with the current game environment.

Sad....because LRM's are the key counter to sniping and DOD in MW and battletech...

So we are now reduced to the COD sniper camps...with mech skins...

I hear that PGI are working to repair the mess they created through their exhorbitant overreaction to past mistakes....

I hope so...because right now the game is a shell of what It could be...

[RickySpanish]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 22 April 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

Ok seriously. So you were standing at 400m in the open, shooting LRM's. And no one thought to ECM lock you or charge you?

See this is my problem with people.

You cannot judge a weapon by it's use against people who...you know what I don't want to get banned again, but you get my drift.

It's stupid to say "Hey guys, I stood in the open with my Awesome and rained down LRM's on people who completely ignored me and did good damage".

I can do that with any weapon and do MORE damage with better weapons.

God.

[I love how people think that because you managed to catch someone by surprise in a position where they can't easily defend against your attack that they are somehow bad, and that you just got lucky.]

You ought to read my post instead of frothing at the mouth and slapping your keyboard until something comes out - I didn't say LRMs were balanced. I said they should be buffed, but that they are in fact, close to being balanced.

Here is why:

The advantage of LRMs vs other weapons that you can do 'better' with is that they are indirect fire and home, so can go over obstacles and track moving targets. You can stand in the open and launch them at an unsuspecting (or apparently against the players you are seeded against, flat out poor) opponent and deal good damage, or you can fire them indirectly and do moderate damage. My suggestion was to buff the value of NARC and TAG to make them an effective support weapon when in a team - to the point where when an enemy is TAG'd or NARC'd the LRMs become extremely effective should you additionally maintain LOS on the target, or just 'good' if you fire them from cover.

The disadvantage of LRMs is that they should NEVER do comparable damage to direct fire weapons without support from your team, because they are so ******** easy to use. You should almost ALWAYS be able to do better damage using direct fire weapons - this is just common sense, however with a supporting team, the LRM support mech should come into its own.

tl;dr;

* LRMs = support
* LRMs should not be better than direct fire weapons
* Caveat: LRMs should do comparable damage when the team supports with NARC and TAG, with the advantage of indirect fire. LOS + Artemis should further increase their damage, to the point where being NARC'd, TAG'd and in LOS is a death sentence.

Edited by RickySpanish, 22 April 2013 - 07:43 AM.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Ok so you caught their entire team off guard? Because if you dumped 600 damage while standing in the open into one guy that is just...wow.

And even if you do some how catch them off guard (they didn't notice all the indicator's that someone is launching a lot of LRM's at them?), they still eventually didn't notice you?

Did every time this happened you had 5 guys attacking one guy, so he didn't really have a chance to react to you?

Honestly, I read your first post, but I didn't read your second post because you won't acknowledge that what you did requires completely inept players on the opposing side to accomplish.

[TELEFORCE]

I think LRMs are fine right now. I run dual LRM-15s in my Awesome 8R and I've poured out the damage pretty well.

I think to correct the issue with LRMs being easy to dodge at long range would be to improve the Narc beacon - Make the beacon work so that is stops working when the location it's attached to is destroyed.

I don't really understand why missile damage was as high as it was to start with. There's more ammo for the both the missile and ballistic weapons than there is on tabletop, but why did missiles get a damage bonus and not ballistics? This doesn't make sense to me.

[RickySpanish]

Nicholas Carlyle, on 22 April 2013 - 07:48 AM, said:

Ok so you caught their entire team off guard? Because if you dumped 600 damage while standing in the open into one guy that is just...wow.

And even if you do some how catch them off guard (they didn't notice all the indicator's that someone is launching a lot of LRM's at them?), they still eventually didn't notice you?

Did every time this happened you had 5 guys attacking one guy, so he didn't really have a chance to react to you?

Honestly, I read your first post, but I didn't read your second post because you won't acknowledge that what you did requires completely inept players on the opposing side to accomplish.

5 guys attacking 1 opponent would mean he'd be dead before my LRMs landed, or do you play against players mounting small lasers - I hear that's a tactic in Elo hell.

Once again - LRMs are a support weapon, they should rarely out damage other weapons (comparatively I can hit 900 damage with direct fire weapons vs 500-800 with LRMs, so they're in a good spot imo). Use of NARC and TAG should buff their effectiveness. If you have LOS to the target that should also buff their effectiveness.

I used them in the tourny to get reliable damage scores in my first 10 matches to give me something to work with, I got scores from 500-800 using them which I'm now improving with LL / PPC combos. I attacked players from 400 metres and closer to give them little chance to avoid them, and dropped LOS usually on the second salvo when they turned around. I would then reposition and repeat on the same or another opponent, prioritizing slow mechs such as Atlases and Stalkers which have trouble getting to cover once committed.

[Fire and Salt]

Don't know why you guys all think lrms are so bad....

In games, I often declare that I have lrms, and then my teammates are like
'Why bro lrms suck. Your build is crap'

Then I get 3 kills and 450 damage while they do nothing useful.





The fact that people think lrms are a no skill weapon is the problem. You think you can just get a lock and fire away?
You need to position yourself in a place where your lrms are useful, you can't expect to win a pop tart battle against a ppc mech.

If lrms are your primary weapon, use tag or a ppc to counter ecm mech. Don't just hope your team does all the target finding for you.


I love lrms, I use them to great effect. I would be sad if the rest of you found out, because I like facing mech that have no AMS...


Suggestions for buff:
Make it slight.
Increase speed by a little.
Increase arc a bit.
Damage to .8 MAX

If they could improve the terrain following, honestly that would be good as far as I am concerned.




Also - when you use tag, hit the mech
1. When you are trying to get a lock
2. Just before they hit

Don't worry about the rest of the flight.



Also... If you fire with a lock, and them lose it, your missiles will track the last known location. If you regain the lock on the same target, your missiles will start tracking again.

I once fired a salvo and the dude took cover so I lost my lock... But then a scout found him so I got it back and my missiles did a 90 degree turn... Boom.. I bet he thought I use hacks lol

[trrprrprr]

Best part is that IF/WHEN lrms get buffed, same people here will cry and ask for a nerf cos lrms are op. I really dont get it how the hell they are weak?

Ive never ended game with less than 200damage done(in very very bad games, where i get jumped in firs minutes) Ok, im not getting 1,3k dmage as seen on youtube pre nerf. But steady 400-800damage on pretty good games.

Same way you should buff almost every mech, cos ive seen ALOT mechs ending game with 1-20damage... i mean atlass, highlanders, crabs and jaggers.... but i bet, theres games where they do around 1k damage too...no?


I would say to learn to play proper lrm BOAT and dont think that some close combat build with one lrm equiped will dominate. Thats why you need to sacrifice pretty much, to be good at long range missile usage. Know best spots, dont hide at 1k-2k range and then storm in to get range, but keep your distance at 300-500meters from enemys and BEHIND few teammates, have a TAG and all will be great.

I follow these rules and take down mechs (as i pointed out before) in few alphas. If they will buff lrms as theyre deadly already, there wont be much ppc/gauss madnes, there will be LRM madness.

[Gamer Luna]

I think that they really need to be worked on. In the boardgame, (which is what all of these games are based off of) there are several mechs that rely on LRMs to do serious damage before they move in and finish off their target with their other weapon systems. The LRMs are supposed to be the fight starters that allow you to finish the fight with your other systems. A speed tweak would also be very nice.

So, as they are now, the LRMs suck in this game. They need a damage buff, maybe 1 per missile rather than .8. Increase the speed as well, and then they'll be more of a usable system.

[SkyCake]

That the poll isn't even more one sided is absolutely scary

[JimSuperBleeder]

For a little while I was running my Stalker with 6xML and 4xSRM6. It was okay, but I went back to PPC boating; it is way more consistent.
This is the SRM build.

Edited by JimSuperBleeder, 22 April 2013 - 08:46 AM.