60 replies to this topic

[Ilwrath]

Jammerben87, on 23 April 2013 - 05:18 AM, said:

The jamming is to make double firing UAC5's risky

Its a stupid setup.

[Purplefluffybunny]

If you want an edge it is better to save up and get a decent gaming mouse and keyboard. Of course, you can choose instead to spend your money on a hero mech or the top of the range 'coolant'. Me?!?! I highly recommend the 'Sensei' range of H U I products.

EDIT: Why is the acronym H U I on the filter list?

Edited by Purplefluffybunny, 23 April 2013 - 05:27 AM.

[Kijahari]

Another option: 3 weapon groups with 2 ac2s, each in chainfire. It's nearly the same as the macro, no dps-difference. Maybe the dakka is just a bit different.

Is the fire rate with that uac5-macro higher than with chain fire (3uacs)? If not I wouldnt consider it as a hack, because it makes no difference in dps.

[Yokaiko]

Kijahari, on 23 April 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Is the fire rate with that uac5-macro higher than with chain fire (3uacs)? If not I wouldnt consider it as a hack, because it makes no difference in dps.

It is if you count lockups, because chainfire will activate double rate.

In a perfect world no, it fire them as quickly as your ping allows for in single fire mode, double rate is still double rate.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Kijahari, on 23 April 2013 - 05:37 AM, said:

Another option: 3 weapon groups with 2 ac2s, each in chainfire. It's nearly the same as the macro, no dps-difference. Maybe the dakka is just a bit different.

Is the fire rate with that uac5-macro higher than with chain fire (3uacs)? If not I wouldnt consider it as a hack, because it makes no difference in dps.

More than 2 AC2s in a group and your chainfire will limit the actual ROF, hence the use of the macro.

[ArmageddonKnight]

Macrofireing Ac2's isnt cheese.

Cheee is somthing that ether works very very well, but is kinda lame ..or fails misserably and is also lame

Like 6cx PPC's. they ether destroy u complelty ,, or overheat the mech and u then go to town on them.

Ac2's in macrofire ..they dont work well ..period. They cant keep constant macrofire going long enough to deal enough damage to kill a mech, becouse they overheat way to quik.
So u have to act as a support mech, u cant go toe to toe with another mech unless its already criticaly damaged. Even then u have to make sure u are almost fully cooled otherwise u over heat again.
Then u have to make sure ur aim is steady and on target for alot longer than u do with a alpha build.
Then u find u'v ran out of ammo.
4 , 5 or 6 xac2's that between 8 to 12 rounds PER SECOND used, 75 rounds per tonn...u burn through ammo like crazy. 8 tonns of ammo, thats 60 seconds of fireing. A match can last between 5 and 10 minutes usualy, even if only 20% of that time is in combat ..ur out of ammo before the end.

Ac2 macrofire setups do not work as a proper setup, they look cool ..they sound cool ..thats it ..they r just for fun.

[Selfish]

You hurt yourself if you macro your AC/2s. People do it because they like the sound of cascading shots--or they didn't understand how lag impacted their recycle prior to the rewind. It deals less damage than if you just fired them all via burst, and you have to sustain your aim vs. readjusting just twice a second. So it's neat, but far from an advantage.

As for 2s in general, if you can keep the window of opportunity open, you can drop people. The JM6-DD's 5x AC/2 build has 20 direct fire DPS at 720m. Quite impressive.

[Kraven Kor]

IceCase88, on 23 April 2013 - 04:53 AM, said:

A macro is a hack. No amount of justification is going to change that fact. If you are not naturally doing it on your own then it is a hack. Much like performance enhancing drugs in sporting events. It does increase the rate of fire of weapons because it takes the human error out of mistiming cool down rates. Using a macro to keep your TAG on all the time is a hack too.

All of you would be QQing if a 6 PPC Stalker was using macros to decimate your mechs without ever overheating. I will laugh at your tears.

You are an *****. I am sorry, but you are.

A 6 PPC Stalker could use a macro to "maximize heat efficiency" but you or I could do more or less the same manually.

And, really, there is literally no way for them to enforce any such ban on macros. You are dumb if you think they can.

Finally, if we go down the road of banning macros, then we should ban:

1. Mice with more than two buttons. Any advantage I have which you don't, afterall, is cheating.
2. Mice with adjustable DPI.
3. Better Video Cards, more RAM, faster CPU, larger monitors.... Again, any advantage I have is cheating, right? So don't let those guys with too much disposable income be "better than you" due to not having FPS issues or having all eye candy tweaked for max ownage.

[Satan n stuff]

OneEyed Jack, on 23 April 2013 - 12:20 AM, said:

This.

Each individual gun is only firing at the same rate it would. if being single-fired normally. It's considerably less useful than group-firing them, because it spread damage too much, but a helluva lot more fun. It's occasionally useful for suppressive fire, as people will tend to dodge for cover when they begin being hit repeatedly, in rapid succession. Unfortunately, most of them quickly figure out there was very little actual damage involved, and will shortly wade into your storm of DAKKA and treat you most cruelly.

And that's when they find out that 4 or so AC/2s will dish out a huge amount of damage if they actually move into the open.

[Kraven Kor]

***** n stuff, on 23 April 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

And that's when they find out that 4 or so AC/2s will dish out a huge amount of damage if they actually move into the open.

I get kills with 4x AC/2 when people charge me, or stand still trading shots, and think "It's just AC/2's, what can he do?" In short burst, it far outclasses any other long range weapon at raw DPS.

That's about the only time it works though. If they move, torso twist, pop in and out of cover, or basically do anything else than let me shoot them, all my AC's are doing is - at best - holding their attention away from other more valuable targets and getting in some incidental damage that might help someone else take them out.

But do not understimate the dakka.

[Skydrive]

I think that, in time, when we have Missle HSR, collisions, DFA, melee, in that order, plus all of a good majority of the bugs exterminated, should PGI add more to the customization of a mech, where you can select the weapon groups in your mech bay, and modify how you want weapons chainfired. For instance a swayback that fires some medium lasers singally, but fires 2 at once. Modifying the wait time before the next one fires, though with certain limitations when it comes to UAC's, like not able to modify the timing of firing an UAC if its the only one in your mech, and if you have two or more UAC's in a weapon group that is in chain fire mode, having something of a... lets call it a randomizer bar, where after you fire an UAC, the next UAC shot may happen before, after, or right when you set it to fire, thus not completely eliminating the jam chance, or removing the chance of jamming, but with a rate of fire slower then two non UAC's.

[ArmageddonKnight]

Macro's are not cheats..well in some games they are. it depends on what they r doing. In most games macro's simply make things easier (this can sometimes be thought of as a cheat), specialy in mmorpg's for example where a series of: target cast target cast ..target of target case cast cast ..etc. And cast X if Y is Z etc.
IMO i hate the idea of those types of macro's it totaly diminishes the skill of those who dont use macro's.

For MWO however, macro's to fire weapons at certain intervals which are sub second, are not really cheats at all, and dont diminish skill. Specialy when ingame mechanics are flawed or restricted, like the AC2 chain fire, which cant fire fast enough to take advantage of the AC2's rapid fire.

Getting around UAC5 jamming is potentialy a cheat, but u would have to have very safe/loose macro timings to make sure client to server side lag dosnt cause the macro to miss time a fire and jam the UAC5.
Say for example
2x UAC5
UAC5 1.1sec reload
Macro has timing of 1.1 / 2 = 0.55
That on its own wont work. u have to loosen it of so it doesnt jam then add ping.
So say ur ping is usualy between 110 and 180. If u add on 0.130 ur run the risk of miss timing, if u add on 0.185 however u dont, now u add on enough to stop jaming, so say another 0.075.

This totals up to 1.1 + 0.185+ 0.075 = 1.36 / 2 = 0.68.
So with 2x UAC5 ur macro timing with the above ping would be 0.68 to avoid jamming, however the 2 UAC5's themselves can potentialy fire at 0.550.

Anyway the timing would obviosly be tweeked till u reach a point whereit starts jaming but the above holds true, u cant use UAC5's to the fullest if u want to avoid jaming but by avoiding jamming u do gain a somewhat large advantage.

Edited by ArmageddonKnight, 23 April 2013 - 09:03 AM.

[Eisenwald]

It's also worth noting that programs like autohotkey do not work with MWO (or I might be too incompetent to get it to work)
Hardwarebound macros work, though

[pencilboom]

Eisenwald, on 23 April 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

It's also worth noting that programs like autohotkey do not work with MWO (or I might be too incompetent to get it to work)
Hardwarebound macros work, though

I believe autohotkey works with MWO. one of my friend is using it. and I believe there's a poster in the forum that created an example on how to get it working

[Gallowglas]

All a macro like this does is perfectly time the interval between shots and allow you to fire rapidly without causing carpal tunnel syndrome. Honestly, trying to call something like this cheating is like a joystick user calling a mouse user a cheater.

Furthermore, with hardware macros being in the equation there's virtually NO way to police it. All you'd have to do is put some random delays in the macro sequence and they'd be undetectable from someone hitting the keys manually. Once again, I think this is a case of the non-tech-savy trying to suggest that PGI is dropping the ball by not policing something that it would be completely ridiculous to even TRY to police and which, if enforced, wouldn't fundamentally change gameplay.

[Trauglodyte]

I don't like the concept of macros. It isn't necessarily unfair but anything that allows 1 button to press 6 buttons is just wrong. Again, there isn't any real gain here but it doesn't seem right. Anyone get what I'm saying?

[Gallowglas]

Trauglodyte, on 23 April 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

I don't like the concept of macros. It isn't necessarily unfair but anything that allows 1 button to press 6 buttons is just wrong. Again, there isn't any real gain here but it doesn't seem right. Anyone get what I'm saying?

If it's not unfair, why is it something that should matter enough for PGI to enforce? Carpal Tunnel Syndrome or ****? I guess I just don't get it. Is this substantially different than someone's ability to use different controls (gamepads, joystick, mouse/kb, and other peripheral devices)? What about if the Oculus Rift is supported? Wouldn't that give players a similar perceptual advantage? Maybe that's not a direct equivalency, but you perhaps get my meaning.

[silentD11]

Trauglodyte, on 23 April 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

I don't like the concept of macros. It isn't necessarily unfair but anything that allows 1 button to press 6 buttons is just wrong. Again, there isn't any real gain here but it doesn't seem right. Anyone get what I'm saying?

You're missing a few things about why they are so common now.

Back in the day you had to create custom .cfg and .ini files in games like Quake or Unreal to properly bind your weapons, create piped switch functions, bind say taunt to the same button as run so you danced around the map slapping your ***, all sorts of crap. For RPGs it was even more insane where you had to use external scripting programs to properly run through spells and all sorts of things. Now, all of that still exists in just about every game out there. But it was a pain the *** to do and a lot of people never wrapped their heads around screwing around in those files.

So all the PC gaming hardware makers so a cash market and now any remotely decent gaming mice/keyboards let you bind crap or create macros at the hardware/driver level. So everyone can do it instead of the minority who felt like screwing around in .inis. Just as most of the now support per game profiles at the driver level.

So macros as they exist now are a good thing. It's a good equalizer. And complaining about it is useless, unless you want to launch a campaign to have logitech, razer, steel, microsoft to remove all this functionality from their hardware.

Hell changing DPI in game with a mouse button is newer than macros on the hardware/driver level. You used to have to bind mouse sensitivity and DPI settings in the .ini files as well. So if you're complaining about macros you should be screaming about changable DPI settings as well.

[pencilboom]

It's funny when people complaining about macro'ed ac/2s and even calling it cheats when it's not "generally effective" or OP in any means instead of the poptarts and ppc boats

[Bagheera]

Tickdoff Tank, on 23 April 2013 - 05:15 AM, said:

6 AC2s with a macro do the exact same damage as group fired AC2s, except the chainfire macro trades concentrated damage for impulse. Meaning that the person group firing them is probably doing more damage in the long run, but the macro user is causing more annoyance.

I prefer seeing people use the macro, they tend to be easier to kill. And most importantly, the macro is FUN, to use, to watch, and to kill the macro user.

This guy gets it.