378 replies to this topic

[SgtMagor]

I kind of like the way PGI scaled the mechs. the only issue I had with them is the Stalker and Awesome they seem a little small. 16meters for Awesome, 16.5 for the Stalker sounds good.

[Frankdark]

Sorry Awesome is to wight to be so high.
I think realy Awesome should get a small reduction in scale

[Dirus Nigh]

The atlas weighs ten tons. It has a load bearing weight of 90 tons.

[Steven Dixon]

I would back the OPs idea, I've always felt that the size of these mechs was a bit off.

Edited by Steven Dixon, 29 December 2013 - 12:53 PM.

[Darling_In_The_MeXX]

I think a slight and stingy tweak would be nice. Nothing serious though.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Sizes are all way off and ridicul, argueing oppsite is laughable.
Thay should resize allmost all meks.

[Reitrix]

Dirus Nigh, on 27 December 2013 - 06:34 PM, said:

The atlas weighs ten tons. It has a load bearing weight of 90 tons.

Haha, i was waiting for someone to post this. Engines weigh more than the base structure of an Atlas.

Remember, 'Mechs have Ammo storage capacity within the armor. That space, when unoccupied, still takes up space, even if it doesn't add to weight. a 'Mech built with an AC20 in an Arm will have the arm built with the space to accommodate such a weapon, if you take it out, the area may be empty, but the space is there.

Total Weight in MechWarrior is a measure of total mass the frame can hold, thus can't and shouldn't be used to indicate how large a 'Mech should be.

[Krasnopesky]

They should be open to changing the overall size of mechs, but not just for realism's sake. Gameplay balance should have some part in a redesign.

[Myomes]

I heard an outsourced third party made all the mechs for the game. Yes, resizing is demanded.

Krasnopesky, on 30 December 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

They should be open to changing the overall size of mechs, but not just for realism's sake. Gameplay balance should have some part in a redesign.

definitely the most important reason.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

And common sense.

[generalazure]

Could go about it like this:
Make weapons the same size across different mechs and make all of them visible on mech models (this includes missile launch tubes). If the mech looks as if he's about to fall over or they simply don't fit at all, it probably needs to be bigger. Conversely, if the armament always looks puny, the mech is likely too big.

[Spleenslitta]

The Trenchbucket needs to get shorter.
I can't use it the way it is right now and it's almost the only medium mech i can use due to my weird tactics.

[Bors Mistral]

Aye, the Treb needs to be a good deal smaller, and there are quite a few mechs that could use some scaling tweaks, up or down.

While we're at it, let's make it so that mechs that are not completely loaded move faster. An XL 360 Atlas loaded to 95ton should shuffle about a bit faster than one loaded to the brim at 100ton.

[TurkeyMcCoolRay]

Ever since I started playing the game I have always thought the size of the mechs was kind of funky, especially some of the medium and heavy mechs being as large as the assaults.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

Visually resizing the Mech's is not an easy step, as all the "parts" individually need to be adjusted then attached again. Very time concerning. And it may also need referencing some of the obstacles and art work within the environment, as some Mech's will no longer be able to see or shoot over some items they could before. (requires checking all the maps.)

Now what really bothers me is when collision and knock down return, how is this calculated? Is the Mass of the Mech used for what happens when two Mech's collide? If the current size is off how will that effect these calculations?

Additionally, when terrain collision is added, will parts of the Mech's be damaged when pilots drag there weapons through a building or another Mech?

Just saying, as it's not a simple thing to do.

9erRed

[Bors Mistral]

9erRed, on 25 March 2014 - 04:57 AM, said:

Visually resizing the Mech's is not an easy step, as all the "parts" individually need to be adjusted then attached again. Very time concerning. And it may also need referencing some of the obstacles and art work within the environment, as some Mech's will no longer be able to see or shoot over some items they could before. (requires checking all the maps.)

Resizing a 3D model and textures can be extremely easy.

I'll give you the most basic example: the Dawn of War II series. Those games have fairly complex models that can have different weapons attached to them, there are different skins for the armies and there's also an army painter that lets you make them as garish as you wish.

All it took me to make a mod that sets the sizes of SM, IG and various vehicles more "realistic" in relation to each other was editing a couple of values in a lua file. Movement animations still looked perfect, textures and weapons also got re-scaled and fit without problems. The only thing that wasn't so straightforward to adjust were the origin points of weapon flashes and such effects.

I'm not saying it's just as simple, fast and easy in the CryEngine (well, it pretty much is, but we don't know what modifications PGI made on top). I'm fairly certain one artist could do a mech or two a day if they decided to. If anything about it is going to be time consuming, that's testing the changes' effect on gameplay balance.

Your point about mech being able to shoot or see above certain obstacles is a good one. However, if we examine the maps in MWO and the amount of invisible obstacles you hit anyway, I'd say PGI wasn't putting that much thought or priority into it in the first place.

Edited by Bors Mistral, 25 March 2014 - 05:54 AM.

[9erRed]

Greetings all,

I understand the actual sizing may indeed only be a days work for skilled artists.
But there is/are still the add-on systems, weapons that can't be changed in size, so the Mech's actual shapes, designs, might be effected. What fit on a slightly larger Mech, may now stick out the side, back, of the smaller chassis.

- Unless there are many similar systems/weapons from different manufactures, same weapon, different sizes and shapes.
- Is the Luxor Devastator-20 AC20 a different shape and size than the ChemJet Gun 185mm AC20?
- Currently we are only seeing one of each weapon, one of each system, will the "future market" have others?

Bringing up another question, why are the displayed Clan Mech's outfitted with the same shape and design weapons the IS currently have? They have 300yrs additional experience and there own factories to design the ER and other versions. Why do they look the same? Are the artists getting sloppy or just reusing the assets they have.

Just saying,
9erRed

[Bors Mistral]

Weapons don't exactly match size and shape on most mechs at he moment. If you look ingame, the ML you put on a spider is considerably larger when installed on the Zaku/Griff. Ballistic barrels of the same weapon also look different across mechs, from the BJ to the Atlas.

I'd say at the moment either each mech already has it's own corresponding set of weapon models, and/or the models that do look alike are already getting scaled on per mech basis. In the end, short of possibly PGI's own skin system for the chassis, adjusting the size of the mechs should be a fairly simple and quick affair. But in the end, short of someone from the staff giving us a confirmation, we can only guess.

[Strum Wealh]

Bors Mistral, on 25 March 2014 - 09:34 AM, said:

...the Zaku/Griff...

The Griffin is derived from the H8 "Roundfacer" Combat Armor from Dougram; the Zaku line of Mobile Suits is from a completely different (and slightly older) franchise (Gundam originally aired in 1979, while Dougram originally aired in 1981).

That being said, both Dougram and Gundam were produced by the same studio (Sunrise) & both the Roundfacer and the Zaku were designed by the same individual (Kunio Okawara), so it is unsurprising that all three share some design elements.

[L Y N X]

The error in the assumptions of this thread are that the mass/volume densities are uniform across all mechs. Since this is SciFi, there is no authority on it and PGI can do what they want. That being said, there are obvious inconsistencies, the Quickdraw is one, most lights look much smaller than 1/3 to 1/5 the weight of the Atlas (using Atlas as the 100 tons standard).

I voted yes, but not for the reasons argued.