58 replies to this topic

[Kraven Kor]

And how would they prevent it?

Spoiler alert: They really can't.

[Yokaiko]

Kraven Kor, on 24 April 2013 - 08:34 AM, said:

And how would they prevent it?

Spoiler alert: They really can't.

and this.

[HammerSwarm]

So what I am understanding is that this technique actually makes the U A/C5 work as intended and the idea is that because people have found a way around select fire being less functional than it should be that is an exploit?

This is an easy fix, everyone should do it. Then the vaunted "new players" will be the ones most hurt and PGI has made it abundantly clear that they are focused on new players and players with low system specs. By using this as seasoned players we'll force PGI to ban the practice (GL it's a keyboard macro not a third party program) or fix the mechanic.

[JakeTehPwner]

HammerSwarm, on 24 April 2013 - 09:01 AM, said:

So what I am understanding is that this technique actually makes the U A/C5 work as intended and the idea is that because people have found a way around select fire being less functional than it should be that is an exploit?

This is an easy fix, everyone should do it. Then the vaunted "new players" will be the ones most hurt and PGI has made it abundantly clear that they are focused on new players and players with low system specs. By using this as seasoned players we'll force PGI to ban the practice (GL it's a keyboard macro not a third party program) or fix the mechanic.

Yup, I have razer keyboard/mouse and I can macro anything I want. I don't though because I have found that since the screen shake from AC2 nerf it's not necessary. Creating a macro to make them shoot at even-ish intervals does nothing for you, you might as well just alpha them and get the max damage. (also it's better for pop-shots just to fire them all at once)

[Thaddius]

I have an issue with being able to script weapons to fire faster than a human can press different buttons. 3rd party hardware/software should not be required to be on a even ground. There has to be a way to fix this even if it takes PGI to put a max imput rate on button presses coming in to the game for the weapon groups.

[Kraven Kor]

Thaddius, on 24 April 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I have an issue with being able to script weapons to fire faster than a human can press different buttons. 3rd party hardware/software should not be required to be on a even ground. There has to be a way to fix this even if it takes PGI to put a max imput rate on button presses coming in to the game for the weapon groups.

Then they should ban:

1. Larger sized monitors (which gives an advantage by being able to see stuff easier.)
2. Mice with more than two buttons (if you only have two buttons, I should only get two buttons, right?)
3. Higher-spec Video Cards (anyone with a better GPU and more VRAM or whatever is going to have PC performance advantages over you.)

I don't really like macros either, and am far too lazy to actually set them up, but yeah... they can't really stop the type of "macro" you guys are complaining about, and they can't ban "better hardware" so there is little that can be done, so far as I can tell.

[Captain Stiffy]

I tried 2xac5+2xuac5 for a bit and it's nasty but it's hard to fit all that and have armor or a good engine.

[Donas]

the macro for AC2's is really just a special effect to make them more dakka-dakka. It has the same end effect as having all of the weapons in one group and firing them all in sync. The macro just brings them all in a split second after one another so instead of the guns going plunk-plunk-plunk-plunk they go dakkadakkadakka like the MG's do.

[Smeghammer]

Donas, on 24 April 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

the macro for AC2's is really just a special effect to make them more dakka-dakka. It has the same end effect as having all of the weapons in one group and firing them all in sync. The macro just brings them all in a split second after one another so instead of the guns going plunk-plunk-plunk-plunk they go dakkadakkadakka like the MG's do.

^This. I'm tempted to setup my Jaeger for AC2 madness and work out a macro just so I can listen to the sound of all those guns firing off in sequence. I'm currently just running them in left/right groups and happy with it.

[One Medic Army]

Thaddius, on 24 April 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I have an issue with being able to script weapons to fire faster than a human can press different buttons. 3rd party hardware/software should not be required to be on a even ground. There has to be a way to fix this even if it takes PGI to put a max imput rate on button presses coming in to the game for the weapon groups.

It's not faster than a human though. It's just more accurately timed.
I could get a similar effect to the AC/2 script by using 2 AC/2s each per chainfire group and holding down the buttons in sequence.
With UAC/5s the 1.1second wait timer for a second non-jamming shot is easily within the realm of human ability.

[Wintersdark]

Jammerben87, on 24 April 2013 - 04:44 AM, said:

Am I the only one who doesn't understand how the macro prevents jamming?

With the current mechanics if you fire once, it fires once, if you try to doubletap it then you have a chance to jam.

The macro is designed to fire the guns in a chain one after the other at their interval, which a player can also do with practice, or as a player above said, chaining 3 does it for you.

From my understanding this does NOT circumvent jamming, it simply doesn't use the double tap method.

Am I wrong?

No, that's right.

You don't need to macro them in a chain, either, you could macro to group fire your three UAC5's, with a 1.1 second delay between shots, and that way you land 15 damage shots with convergence every 1.1 seconds instead of spreading them around by firing every ~0.4s.

Much the same as the AC/2 macro, for example. If you chain them, it looks and sounds cool but doesn't actually help at all.

[Wintersdark]

Thaddius, on 24 April 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I have an issue with being able to script weapons to fire faster than a human can press different buttons. 3rd party hardware/software should not be required to be on a even ground. There has to be a way to fix this even if it takes PGI to put a max imput rate on button presses coming in to the game for the weapon groups.

Not faster. More accurately, perhaps, but not faster.

Regardless, there is no gain whatsoever to scripting to chain fire with a short delay. You get the same DPS and HPS as group firing, AC/2 and AC/5 cause no real cockpit shake (and absolutely no reticule shake - they do NOT impair your ability to fire accurately).

It just looks and sounds cooler, that's all.

[Donas]

Smeghammer, on 24 April 2013 - 05:43 PM, said:

^This. I'm tempted to setup my Jaeger for AC2 madness and work out a macro just so I can listen to the sound of all those guns firing off in sequence. I'm currently just running them in left/right groups and happy with it.

put each a/c2 into its own weapon group. macro to fire 1,2,3,4,5,6 with .05 second delay between them. Press and hold for dakkadakka. :-D

[Felicitatem Parco]

If you want to set up a large number of AC/2's to fire as a Machinegun, then you set your weapon groups up like this:

AC/2 - 1
AC/2 - 1, 2
AC/2 - 1, 3
AC/2 - 1, 4
AC/2 - 1, 5
AC/2 - 1, 6

You then roll your fingers over the 2->6 keys and then press-and-hold "1" (I use Mouse 1 to fire Weapons Group 1, so that makes things easier). By rolling your fingers quickly you stagger those 5 weapons, and by clicking and holding 1 you'll fire the 6th and final gun and cause the other 5 guns to keep firing at full ROF in a staggered fashion (since you're continuously holding the trigger).

So, when you see someone firing an AC/2 chaingun, there's a significant chance that user isn't using a Macro... I do this with 4 AC/2 on my Jager 6S all the time.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 25 April 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[Donas]

Prosperity Park, on 25 April 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

If you want to set up a large number of AC/2's to fire as a Machinegun, then you set your weapon groups up like this:

AC/2 - 1
AC/2 - 1, 2
AC/2 - 1, 3
AC/2 - 1, 4
AC/2 - 1, 5
AC/2 - 1, 6

You then roll your fingers over the 2->6 keys and then press-and-hold "1" (I use Mouse 1 to fire Weapons Group 1, so that makes things easier). By rolling your fingers quickly you stagger those 5 weapons, and by clicking and holding 1 you'll fire the 6th and final gun and cause the other 5 guns to keep firing at full ROF in a staggered fashion (since you're continuously holding the trigger).

So, when you see someone firing an AC/2 chaingun, there's a significant chance that user isn't using a Macro... I do this with 4 AC/2 on my Jager 6S all the time.

Thats nice. you could do it by starting at 6 and just sliding your finger down to the 1 and holding there, yes? or is that what you meant?

[SpiralRazor]

Appogee, on 23 April 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

MechWarrior has long applied a ''gun jam'' game mechanic to UACs. It's an integral balancing consideration in the use of those weapons.

In the past 48 hours I've observed increasing numbers of players avoiding gun jams by using macros to chain fire UACs in quick succession.

5 UAC5s chainfired in this way deliver huge targeted damage per second. They can core a medium in seconds.

It would be great if we as MWO players would accept that exploits are bad and, dare I say it, that using a macro to avoid UAC jams is a dishonourable way to win a game. However, I'm not that naive. I know there are some people who take the selfish position that ''if the game lets me do it then then it must be ok''. Unfortunately, they drag everyone down to a lowest common denominator of gameplay. In fact, there are now threads in these forums where enthusiastic exploiters explain to others how to configure macros to avoid gun jams.

IMHO, PGI needs to detect and prevent macros being used to exploit UACs. This could be done by done relatively simply, by detecting the previous weapon fired and restoring the odds of a jam even if the previous weapon was fired from a different hardpoint.

the macro is client side sir...what do you propose, spyware? yeah right.....

[Veril]

Donas, on 24 April 2013 - 05:25 PM, said:

the macro for AC2's is really just a special effect to make them more dakka-dakka. It has the same end effect as having all of the weapons in one group and firing them all in sync. The macro just brings them all in a split second after one another so instead of the guns going plunk-plunk-plunk-plunk they go dakkadakkadakka like the MG's do.

You are quite wrong. There is an enormous advantage in having them fire split seconds apart.
It gives you a stream of fire that lets you do corrections easier and if the target is fast moving you can at least partially hit it instead of risking all-misses.

[Sephlock]

You wimps need to try some Street fighter.

Try Mastering MK -> Hands -> MK -> Hands -> FADC -> MK -> Hands -> MK -> Hands.

[Bishop Steiner]

I wanna has the mech that carries 5 UAC5s.........
I promise I won't even chainfire them. with 5, i'll core an an Atlas BEFORE they can jam!

[Nunspa]

Except someone already did the math....

they tested macro vs. holding down the fire button with 3 Ultras.... holding down the button, even with jams, had higher DPS.