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Do You Think The Medium Class Is Underpowered?


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Poll: Underpowered poll (140 member(s) have cast votes)

Are mediums underpowered?

  1. Yes (70 votes [50.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 50.00%

  2. No (63 votes [45.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 45.00%

  3. Unsure (7 votes [5.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 5.00%

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#41 Keifomofutu

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:29 AM

View PostYokaiko, on 26 April 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:




Only one heavy can get to decent medium speeds, that is the Dragon, and you have to knock it down to 40 firepower or so to get that much engine in.

Get the Hunch and the Cent out of your head speedwise they are among the SLOWEST mediums in the timeline, the average is actually more like the Trenchbucket at 86kph.

And yet those are the mediums pgi keeps giving us. And they've hard capped engines specifically to prevent fast mediums.

Cataphract, catapult, jager, and dragon can all go at least 80km/h. Only slow heavy I can think of is the ctf-4x.

#42 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:30 AM

View PostFunkyFritter, on 26 April 2013 - 08:53 AM, said:

Most of them move too slowly to fulfill their intended role. They tend to sit around the 80-90kph range, that doesn't allow them to track down 150kph lights or outmaneuver 60kph heavies. I'd like to see slightly larger engine sizes on everything except the cicada. If every hunchback and centurion variant had the option of reaching 100-110kph with an XL engine it would give them the relative speed they need to compete.

If you are looking for a Centurion to be a Jenner hunter you are looking at the Class wrong. If you on't have a Light a ast medium CAN scout. If you need more Fire Support a Trebuchet can get the job done. If you need a Mech to help kill an Atlas a crafty Hunchback can do the job. The Medium Mech is not the end all of any job. They are the one that can swing the battle one way or the other.

I had many times where my Centurion turned the tide of battle between two assaults, Or the added Missiles from my 4SP stopped a charge with a Catapult. Force multiplier. That is what a medium does best! I love my Centurion & My Hunchback. hey get the job done when I am bored with being an Atlas.

#43 Keifomofutu

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:32 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 26 April 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:


If you are looking for a Centurion to be a Jenner hunter you are looking at the Class wrong. If you on't have a Light a ast medium CAN scout. If you need more Fire Support a Trebuchet can get the job done. If you need a Mech to help kill an Atlas a crafty Hunchback can do the job. The Medium Mech is not the end all of any job. They are the one that can swing the battle one way or the other.

I had many times where my Centurion turned the tide of battle between two assaults, Or the added Missiles from my 4SP stopped a charge with a Catapult. Force multiplier. That is what a medium does best! I love my Centurion & My Hunchback. hey get the job done when I am bored with being an Atlas.
Did you actually suggest using a 50 tonner as an lrm boat...

#44 FunkyFritter

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:33 AM

View PostYokaiko, on 26 April 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:



Only one heavy can get to decent medium speeds, that is the Dragon, and you have to knock it down to 40 firepower or so to get that much engine in.

Get the Hunch and the Cent out of your head speedwise they are among the SLOWEST mediums in the timeline, the average is actually more like the Trenchbucket at 86kph.

Mechs from the timeline don't really matter if we can't use them. As it stands the hunchback and centurion represent half the mediums in the game and with the engine cap as-is neither has the speed to do its job.

#45 hammerreborn

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:33 AM

View PostDavers, on 25 April 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

In a game all about shooting other mechs it is not acceptable to have mechs that cannot compete damage-wise. What are medium mechs supposed to do? Cap? Get spotting assists? Damage is how you make money and exp. A mech that isn't expected to pull it's own weight is a BAD MECH.


View PostDavers, on 25 April 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

This is it. No one is saying you can't have a good game in a medium mech. But there are a lot of load outs that can cripple a medium mech in one salvo. This makes them undesirable to play. They also have much worse hard points than Heavy mechs (Yay, the Hunchback 4SP has symmetrical hardpoints! Just like EVERY Catapult....).

If this post was about Awesomes then people would chime in and say how wonderful they do in them. But look at the latest contest. The best Awesome scored like 2000 points less than every other Assault, and I know Bata and he played the hell out of his Awesomes for the contest. I can't wait until we have a medium contest so we can see how they score compared to an Assault. After all, without any weight limits, there is no reason not to go big.

If Medium mechs are so good, where is the threads complaining about them, like there was in CB about the Hunchback 4P?


In line of each of these arguments, lights are the most underpowered of them all, since they fall under each of these categories...but even more so. Which correlates to lights being the least played class overall by a longshot.

#46 Yokaiko

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:36 AM

View PostKeifomofutu, on 26 April 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

And yet those are the mediums pgi keeps giving us. And they've hard capped engines specifically to prevent fast mediums.

Cataphract, catapult, jager, and dragon can all go at least 80km/h. Only slow heavy I can think of is the ctf-4x.


I have 7 mediums that are over 100kph, most of those 115kph or better. The Cent-D and Treb-3C can both hit 139, Cicadas hit 141 and the rest of the Trebs go 115. That is more "fast" mediums than slow ones.

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 26 April 2013 - 09:30 AM, said:

s, Or the added Missiles from my 4SP stopped a charge with a Catapult. Force multiplier. That is what a medium does best! I love my Centurion & My Hunchback. hey get the job done when I am bored with being an Atlas.



The Hunch and the Cent work best as Atlas sitters, I had a cent-A back before ECM I called "Get the FRACK off my atlas" AC10 to MPL and 3 SSRM2s, its only purpose was to follow the atlas and bitchslap jenners.

#47 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:37 AM

View PostKeifomofutu, on 26 April 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Did you actually suggest using a 50 tonner as an lrm boat...

It is one and so is this(at 5 tons more)!
and this
and this
and this
and this
Do I need more evidence of Medium Fire support?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 April 2013 - 09:42 AM.


#48 Yokaiko

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:38 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 26 April 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

It is one and so is this(at 5 tons more)!



Apollo was pretty wicked in TT.

#49 blinkin

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:39 AM

View PostKeifomofutu, on 26 April 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

Did you actually suggest using a 50 tonner as an lrm boat...

actually my hunchback 4SP has made for an amazing missile platform with 2x LRM20.

#50 Echo6

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:44 AM

View PostDavers, on 25 April 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

This is it. No one is saying you can't have a good game in a medium mech. But there are a lot of load outs that can cripple a medium mech in one salvo. This makes them undesirable to play. They also have much worse hard points than Heavy mechs (Yay, the Hunchback 4SP has symmetrical hardpoints! Just like EVERY Catapult....).

If this post was about Awesomes then people would chime in and say how wonderful they do in them. But look at the latest contest. The best Awesome scored like 2000 points less than every other Assault, and I know Bata and he played the hell out of his Awesomes for the contest. I can't wait until we have a medium contest so we can see how they score compared to an Assault. After all, without any weight limits, there is no reason not to go big.

If Medium mechs are so good, where is the threads complaining about them, like there was in CB about the Hunchback 4P?

I voted no because I like how my YLW performs. I definitely don't do damage like an assault or even a heavy, but I can definitely keep the flies off my assaults.

If you're comparing them to ppc boats then they're certainly going to seem underpowered, but it's not really so. The problem is with the combination of being able to replicate the deathstar superlaser while lacking any significant heat consequences.

#51 Yokaiko

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:45 AM

View PostEcho6, on 26 April 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

If you're comparing them to ppc boats then they're certainly going to seem underpowered, but it's not really so.



They are also one of the better answers to the PPC boats. YLW in particular because you can get it so fast.

#52 Echo6

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:47 AM

View PostFitzbattleaxe, on 25 April 2013 - 09:55 PM, said:

Lights are overpowered. Mediums are fine. The problem is that we don't have role warfare, and so a medium is expected to do the same job as a heavy. If we had more complex missions and drop limits, there'd be a place for every class. But since everything has to be able to either brawl or snipe, then a medium won't be as good as something that's twice as heavy and costs twice as much. Nor should it be.

I agree that this is the expectation, but I try to use mine to protect the fatties in my drop group.

#53 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:47 AM

View PostYokaiko, on 26 April 2013 - 09:36 AM, said:


I have 7 mediums that are over 100kph, most of those 115kph or better. The Cent-D and Treb-3C can both hit 139, Cicadas hit 141 and the rest of the Trebs go 115. That is more "fast" mediums than slow ones.




The Hunch and the Cent work best as Atlas sitters, I had a cent-A back before ECM I called "Get the FRACK off my atlas" AC10 to MPL and 3 SSRM2s, its only purpose was to follow the atlas and bitchslap jenners.

I have a friend in Murphy's that did the same thing. He had my back when the fast Mechs rushed me in my Atlas. Running with him got my K/D Up to 2.97.

#54 Joseph Mallan

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 09:54 AM

View PostThontor, on 26 April 2013 - 09:52 AM, said:

As long as I can play a medium, be successful, and have fun doing it... I don't think they are underpowered.

Nor are they too big.

They are just right :ph34r:

And lived happily ever after.
The End



What you weren't referring to Goldilocks and the 3 Bears? ;)

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 26 April 2013 - 09:54 AM.


#55 Keifomofutu

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:11 AM

View PostYokaiko, on 26 April 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:




They are also one of the better answers to the PPC boats. YLW in particular because you can get it so fast.
Your YLW arm is probably gone in one shot.

#56 Straften

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:24 AM

View PostKeifomofutu, on 25 April 2013 - 07:01 PM, said:


If I get that kind of damage in a medium I'm super happy and I take a screenshot and brag about it on the forums. If I get that damage in my assault or heavy I think "not bad". And I don't even remember the game. Why is that?



I love this post, but let's consider it. Do you want mediums doing that kind of damage, all the time? Who would play assaults then?

Mediums are in their place. They are great for the tonnage/CB. With weight matching, they are already better than they were before. A weight limit game mode would also make them even more desirable. And as for your assaults and heavies who do large damage all the time, will they make it back in time to stop the cap? No, but the medium mechs will. They are working as intended.

#57 Lightfoot

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:32 AM

Mediums sacrifice armor and a minor amount of DPS for speed an manuverability. They have a place in the lance as skirmishers and to defend the Assault. Anytime they do this they are very successful. When several mediums rush off to engage an enemy assault mech alone, some are going to be defeated and probably the enemy assault as well.

So, if you play as a lance. Lights scout or harass. Mediums skirmish while also defending the Assault. Heavies attack whatever the Assault attacks. This will work very well right now.

Are mediums underpowered, heck no. The Hunchback 4SP carries 9 energy while the Awesome can only fit 7 energy. The Awesome gets more armor by a bit, but is slow.

There is a tradeoff in most MechWarrior games and MWO. Your chassis trades armor and loadout tonnage for speed and manuvering and vice versa.

However that does not explain why the Swayback gets 9 energy hardpoints and the AWS-8Q only gets 7. It should be the other way around, right?

#58 Keifomofutu

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:38 AM

View PostStraften, on 26 April 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:




I love this post, but let's consider it. Do you want mediums doing that kind of damage, all the time? Who would play assaults then?

Mediums are in their place. They are great for the tonnage/CB. With weight matching, they are already better than they were before. A weight limit game mode would also make them even more desirable. And as for your assaults and heavies who do large damage all the time, will they make it back in time to stop the cap? No, but the medium mechs will. They are working as intended.

Unless you are running a cicada or one of a couple actually fast mediums then yes the fast heavy will get back to stop the cap just fine compared to a standard engine medium. The trouble is cicada is barely more than a light and the other fast mediums with xls are the easiest mech to kill in the game. Again the mediums have poor profiles. How many times have you looked at a cataphract and cent in the distance and been unable to discern a size difference?

Think about it. A fast light will probably dodge the shot. Will an xl cent or treb? Nope.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 26 April 2013 - 11:40 AM.


#59 Tesunie

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:19 PM

View Postaniviron, on 25 April 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:


Yes, it's great that you did well in your medium. One game proves nothing. Please observe the following:

Now you could look at this screenshot and go, "Wow anivirion, 780 damage and three kills and you lived to tell about it? Your mech must be great!" Well, maybe. You could also keep looking at the screenshot for a while until you realize, "Oh hey, that guy only did 138 damage in his 4P, and he was one of the first to die. That mech is pretty bad."

It's nice that you can have a good game in a medium. If you're a good pilot, it's going to happen every now and then. But this doesn't change the fact that if I'd been in a heavier mech that round, I probably would have had over a thousand points of damage, and with less effort to boot. For that matter, it goes to show you that anecdotal evidence means nothing. Every time an "x is underpowered" thread comes up, someone posts a screenshot of how well they can do with x. Sure, you did great, and I'm proud of you. But what isn't posted is the dozens of rounds where the object in question has middling or awful rounds, or how a player who hasn't spent too much time in this game does with it.

In short: statistics are more meaningful than stories. And given that heavies and assaults absolutely dominate in percentage of mechs dropped, this implies that there is a problem with lights and mediums. By and large, players play what works, and what helps them win, because losing over and over isn't fun. Which makes one wonder why so few players are playing lights or mediums.



I was once told a Hunchback loadout would not work. I submitted not one, but four end screens of my mech in action, each end screen back to back. Does that help tell a better tale? I believe i did about 150 upwards to 600 damage in those matches. Its all in how you play. What works for one player might not for another one.

Personally, I find my mediums (Hunchback and Centurion) make great guards. I dont have them geared to go fast, as they don't need to for their intended roles. They are also still usually fast enough to still be able to scout, outflank or distract if need be. I have a friend who runs an almost stock Centurion, stock speed. He does very well in it in most matches.

My cicada I find is a big light. Hes great for strikes and scouting. I do have a slow 3C that I've dubbed as the Hollander 2 that does well enough.


And in response to someone about a slow light, been thinking about getting a Spider 5V (or is it k) and make it a jumping Hollander to try and play off the success I've seen on my Hollander 2. I've heard people playing Spiders as mock Urbanmechs too.

To summerize, med mechs have their place. Its all in how you set them up and use them. They are the jack of all trades. Able to do anything, but not great at any one thing. Now if they had cost included, then having several med mechs vs one assault would be their strength. In the universe lore, that is the real strength of a med, cheap to make, fix, replace and about to gang up on larger mech types.

#60 Yokaiko

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:55 PM

View PostKeifomofutu, on 26 April 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Your YLW arm is probably gone in one shot.



One shot after two or three kills and 500 damage maybe.





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